Why can people play like terminators

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

how about bringing back parries for straight strikes, jab/ straights/ front kick/ front kick to the body?? alot of people like to be using jab straights but with parries it will force them to change striking patterns or time it more wisely.

But will most people even use the parries especially if they dont have the counter window that UFC 2 had (which people seemed to hate)? If its just basically another way to block a strike but its a more difficult input than just blocking, wont people just use the block?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

The only problem is that it still would not make a jab effect at stopping forward pressure.

Maybe, a jab as a hit stun that truly interrupts forward motion. This would increase the need for head movement.

However, the problem with head movement is that it is over punished for guessing wrong.

The other issue is that there is no parry. People for some reason seem to hate the parry, but it is a real defensive tool that is used in real life. People probably use it more that block. In game it should have a similar effect as head movement in terms of countering ability.

Also parries should not have such a defined if then system. The parry result should be dependent upon timing and range. For example .... you can parry an hook. If the hook is thrown out of range. However in close parrying a hook is a bad idea.

Forward lunging jab literally always stuns your opponent

And head movement should provide real punishment when you guess wrong

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Thats an interesting take. How often do you think the average person who plays this game actually regularly uses head movement or movement as a frequent defensive tool? Because in real life, head movement and movement is the primary reason that fighters arent accurate.

One of the devs told me a while back that blocking is the defensive tool that most people use in this game and its likely because its the easiest defensive tool to use. Its the tool I use the most and while I'm not great at the game, I'm not a newbie either.

So if people are using block as their most frequent tool and I think we all agree that we dont want people to just camp behind block, what are your ideas for decreasing the connect % in each fight?

A combination of a few things.
1. Making the other defensive options more reliable, getting caught while moving still happens when it shouldnt at times.
2. Add parries, yes I know its the boogeyman of this community, but a comprehensive and detailed parry system is a must.
3. Add a power modifier, means that distance of strikes would be altered.
4. Make block breaking easier.
5. Increase vulnerablity to body whilst holding high block and vice versa.
6. Slow down movement whilst blocking.

A few need to be a bit more detailed but this is a brief list.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

The only problem is that it still would not make a jab effect at stopping forward pressure.

Maybe, a jab as a hit stun that truly interrupts forward motion. This would increase the need for head movement.

However, the problem with head movement is that it is over punished for guessing wrong.

The other issue is that there is no parry. People for some reason seem to hate the parry, but it is a real defensive tool that is used in real life. People probably use it more that block. In game it should have a similar effect as head movement in terms of countering ability.

Also parries should not have such a defined if then system. The parry result should be dependent upon timing and range. For example .... you can parry an hook. If the hook is thrown out of range. However in close parrying a hook is a bad idea.

Im a big fan of readding and revamping parries. Also jabs would have a big affect with this as they are thrown at a high volume and would have a reasonably high chance of cutting/breaking.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

But will most people even use the parries especially if they dont have the counter window that UFC 2 had (which people seemed to hate)? If its just basically another way to block a strike but its a more difficult input than just blocking, wont people just use the block?

Parries would be a bit more complex and would be good against combo fighters. I will make a thread shortly on a more complex system for it that would work within the current game mechaincs. Essentially they wouldwork in a similar vane to block counters and allow you to land first, with no stifling of the oppenents movements or strikes.

[Mydog8]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Forward lunging jab literally always stuns your opponent

And head movement should provide real punishment when you guess wrong

We just have a difference of opinion.

I think you should be able to either block with head movement or strike with head movement. If you are striking it should leave you vulnerable. If you are blocking even if leaning wrong reduced dmg.

Regards to the jab. I think all jabs, especially if the opponent is walking forward into it should stun the opponent.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Thats an interesting take. How often do you think the average person who plays this game actually regularly uses head movement or movement as a frequent defensive tool? Because in real life, head movement and movement is the primary reason that fighters arent accurate.

One of the devs told me a while back that blocking is the defensive tool that most people use in this game and its likely because its the easiest defensive tool to use. Its the tool I use the most and while I'm not great at the game, I'm not a newbie either.

So if people are using block as their most frequent tool and I think we all agree that we dont want people to just camp behind block, what are your ideas for decreasing the connect % in each fight?

Did you get my list?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

We just have a difference of opinion.

I think you should be able to either block with head movement or strike with head movement. If you are striking it should leave you vulnerable. If you are blocking even if leaning wrong reduced dmg.

Regards to the jab. I think all jabs, especially if the opponent is walking forward into it should stun the opponent.

They tried that before with jabs. It was unrealistic and people spammed them to no end.

I agree completely regarding those additions for head movement.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I think the only issue with the jab is that you can't poke people with the normal version if they're blocking. This makes it so you have very limited options if you want to poke from range. The block is simply too strong against any single strikes. You have to lunge in order to bust a block up with a jab. I think the standard jab should deal piercing damage like the lunging jab, but without the long hit stun.

Also, whoever said parries should be good against combinations only has a cursory grasp on how they really work. Parrying strikes are undoubtedly great against single strikes. If someone keeps jabbing you, the parry is there because you know the strike is coming. Against combos, you can parry the jab or other strike (or attempt to parry a jab that didn't come) and then eat the next shot.

If you're really good, a parry can offset a combo and allow you to get your own strike in before they can get their's out. Buuuut, that's not often the case. Too many variables if the guy is mixing it up properly. That being said, if they can figure out a way to make parries like head movement, it could work. Right now, head movement can be used by guessing, but is much more effective if your opponent is predictable and you anticipate the strike before moving in the counter direction.

You could make two or several kinds of parries. One for straight strikes, one for kicks, one for hooking strikes. Something like that. Kind of like an in-between blocking and head movement. Less damage done for a successful strike of a parry, but less damage taken for a failed parry. You also have to be judicious with your parry type. If you expect a straight and try to parry it down, they could be coming with a hook instead. Less guessing, more anticipation.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I think the only issue with the jab is that you can't poke people with the normal version if they're blocking. This makes it so you have very limited options if you want to poke from range. The block is simply too strong against any single strikes. You have to lunge in order to bust a block up with a jab. I think the standard jab should deal piercing damage like the lunging jab, but without the long hit stun.

Also, whoever said parries should be good against combinations only has a cursory grasp on how they really work. Parrying strikes are undoubtedly great against single strikes. If someone keeps jabbing you, the parry is there because you know the strike is coming. Against combos, you can parry the jab or other strike (or attempt to parry a jab that didn't come) and then eat the next shot.

If you're really good, a parry can offset a combo and allow you to get your own strike in before they can get their's out. Buuuut, that's not often the case. Too many variables if the guy is mixing it up properly. That being said, if they can figure out a way to make parries like head movement, it could work. Right now, head movement can be used by guessing, but is much more effective if your opponent is predictable and you anticipate the strike before moving in the counter direction.

You could make two or several kinds of parries. One for straight strikes, one for kicks, one for hooking strikes. Something like that. Kind of like an in-between blocking and head movement. Less damage done for a successful strike of a parry, but less damage taken for a failed parry. You also have to be judicious with your parry type. If you expect a straight and try to parry it down, they could be coming with a hook instead. Less guessing, more anticipation.

You kinda just answered yourself, parries would have to be exactly that. The same as block counters. You have to know what strike is coming thats exacly why it would work. Like the most combo is the 1-6-3. Parrying the jab and landing a check hook would beat this combo.

[Reinfarcements]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I still think the solution is having blocked strikes cost the attacker more long-term stamina. This way you still have to be good enough to escape a couple of "Terminator" attacks to survive, but said attacker will quickly tire himself out allowing you to have your way with them.

This phone-booth crap going on for 5 rounds is ridiculous. If thats how you choose to fight in the game, you should either be the winner in the first round, or exhausted half-way through the second. The output is simply not realistic. And I'm not even asking for 1:1 ratio with real life output numbers, just something a little more......believable.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I still think the solution is having blocked strikes cost the attacker more long-term stamina. This way you still have to be good enough to escape a couple of "Terminator" attacks to survive, but said attacker will quickly tire himself out allowing you to have your way with them.

This phone-booth crap going on for 5 rounds is ridiculous. If thats how you choose to fight in the game, you should either be the winner in the first round, or exhausted half-way through the second. The output is simply not realistic. And I'm not even asking for 1:1 ratio with real life output numbers, just something a little more......believable.

That encourages people to just camp behind block which isnt what people want.

[The meticulous Esp]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I still think the solution is having blocked strikes cost the attacker more long-term stamina. This way you still have to be good enough to escape a couple of "Terminator" attacks to survive, but said attacker will quickly tire himself out allowing you to have your way with them.

This phone-booth crap going on for 5 rounds is ridiculous. If thats how you choose to fight in the game, you should either be the winner in the first round, or exhausted half-way through the second. The output is simply not realistic. And I'm not even asking for 1:1 ratio with real life output numbers, just something a little more......believable.

THIS

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

A combination of a few things.
1. Making the other defensive options more reliable, getting caught while moving still happens when it shouldnt at times.
2. Add parries, yes I know its the boogeyman of this community, but a comprehensive and detailed parry system is a must.
3. Add a power modifier, means that distance of strikes would be altered.
4. Make block breaking easier.
5. Increase vulnerablity to body whilst holding high block and vice versa.
6. Slow down movement whilst blocking.

A few need to be a bit more detailed but this is a brief list.

I dont understand 3 and how that would make the connect % decrease.

Make block break easier would mean more strikes would land which would increase the connect %

Increasing the vulnerability to body shots when holding block (which as I said is the #1 form of defense people use) would likely lead to more body rocks, encourage more mixup and likely lead to a higher number of body TKOs which would be unrealistic.

Movement while blocking has already been slowed. Also if you just hold block while moving forward the block will break down easier.

I'm still not convinced that parries would decrease the connect percentage because I'm not convinced that without the counter window people will be incentivized enough to use a more difficult way to defend. People learned to parry in UFC 2 because if you were good at it, it gave you a huge counter window.

[johnmangala]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

That encourages people to just camp behind block which isnt what people want.

The stamina cost for strikes should be increased. The 100+ strike totals a round should be an anomaly reserved for high output fighters like Holloway, Diaz, and Velasquez.

I'm still not convinced that parries would decrease the connect percentage because I'm not convinced that without the counter window people will be incentivized enough to use a more difficult way to defend. People learned to parry in UFC 2 because if you were good at it, it gave you a huge counter window.

That's because the parries in the earlier EA UFC games were incomplete and were represented wrong.

The parries in the EA UFC games were immobile, had a free counter window, and stopped the flow of combos. None of this is how parries actually work. There should be both defensive and offensive parries. The defensive parries being the standard deflection and the offensive ones being active parries or block peel.

The difference between defensive parries and blocking would be that parries divert strikes whereas blocking absorbs strikes. Which would allow for less damage taken and if arm damage meant more than it does would wear out the arms less- which means more retained speed and power.

Defensive parry

Spoiler

The difference between offensive parries and blocking would be that you can actively block the path of strikes with active parries, or block peel.

Offensive parry

Spoiler

Parries should've been mobile, no free counter window, and able to follow up for both sides. The follow-up counter from the parrier should be blockable/avoidable as well. Parries shouldn't have prevented the parried opponent from throwing subsequent strikes, like the gifs demonstrate.

Spoiler

They should be a simple deflection or catch, without a free hit. They should be mobile, not freeze you in place.





There is also active blocking which isn't exactly parrying but it is in the family.





Mistiming parries were also not really punished in the earlier games.

Parries are effective at stopping overagression but, along with the clinch, were poorly represented in the EA UFC games. I mean there isn't even open guard clinch.