Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

This game suffers from not having dedicated servers. The P2P thing is just a big annoyance for people who do have a good connection. On 2K, in pro-am there are 10 people connected and I never experience any sort of delay, yet in this game slight delay is basically the norm online. It almost never feels crisp unless I fight someone like tomitomitomi who also has a decent connection. In the meantime, 2K always feels crisp. I hopped on the US (I'm from EU) pro-am servers two days ago and that had less delay than a 4 green connection bar EA UFC 3 fight. With 2K's dedicated servers, if you have a trash connection, you will experience lag while the rest will not be aware of it. That is how it should be.

Spot on bro, spot on.

[LoveThisLife]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

First of all.

English isn't my first language.

I speak three (Spanish, English, and French) with Spanish being my first language , English my second when I came to America, and French being what I've been practicing as of 3 years ago.

I didn't say it with bad intentions, as the other person stated, being that he said Comcast and his name being OSHighwayman I just assumed he was another American with bad grammar. Like Daisuk said, it's more about the structure of the post, and with time people can learn. He brings up good points, but due to the structure of how things are written, it can be looked at and dismissed within 5 seconds of reading it.

Anywho:

Dropped inputs aren't a thing, you get what you input.

However, delayed inputs are, and that usually is due to connectivity issues and/or frames, or the misfortune of running across a lag switcher/somebody manipulating their connection so they can throw combinations easily while you're stuck. (I.e Ty1012326 in Season 1-3, or Mini-Man-Lafferty now)


I have a video where I ask the viewers was fight #3 lag switching- and you'll notice it in Round 2, and I bet you'd agree with me there too as well.

https://youtu.be/bU1a_XcOrHM

Things like that have to be resolved.


I'm all for fighter Uniqueness as well, I've stated this multiple times: Khabib Nurmagomedov is not throwing a Switch Kick with the same technique as Edson Barboza, and Daniel Cormier is not kicking like Mirko Cro Cop. Martial Posted something about different animations for different levels, and what I'd like to add to that is different animations for different styles of fighters (i.e., Muay Thai Styled Leg kicks vs a Taekwondo's styled leg kick)

Okay, I wrong to assume that you did not speak multiple languages... you just usually hear that type of stuff from 'Mericans (real 'mericans if you know what I mean).

But if you feel inclined to provide that type of feedback it may be best to do so privately.

Dropped inputs are completely real. And so is the inconsistency in control responsiveness.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

Okay, I wrong to assume that you did not speak multiple languages... you just usually hear that type of stuff from 'Mericans (real 'mericans if you know what I mean).

But if you feel inclined to provide that type of feedback it may be best to do so privately.

Dropped inputs are completely real. And so is the inconsistency in control responsiveness.

IIRC, I used to think that, but I personally thing the delay is moreso what leads to a belief of 'dropped inputs'

Like, I'd go in practice mode, if I press something, something always comes out, what comes out for specific moves in generally a matter of 'range' i.e. head kicks turning into body kicks, front kicks into knees.

Wholeheartedly agree with control responsiveness and I think that is tied into P2P connectivity online.

There are certain people I match up with online, and it's like I'm fighting the dude in the same living room.

Whereas there are some people that are perceived to be green bars, and it is the absolute worst delay ever.

Offline you never see any kind of delay, for obvious reasons..

I would hope for dedicated servers in UFC 4.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Operation Sports mobile app

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

UFC 3 is an arcade brawler imo. It's more of an arcadey fighting game, than it is a simulation sports game.

I mean, just the fact that strike output is on average about 3 times more in this game than in real life, that alone points to an extremely arcadey experience.

Or people getting rocked 10 times a fight. Etc. Etc.

Now you are just throwing the word "arcadey" around without any basis for it.

What he says about input lag, seeing an opening but not being able to capitalize due to input lag is also spot on, and literally what Ive said myself, and read from others on the forum.

You are also ignoring factors such as latency (which single-handedly ruins reactive playing in most traditional fighting games online), screen latency, your personal reaction (also note that you react slower to getting hit in a video game than getting hit in real life), controller input delay and then the in-game delay.

The game has an input delay issue but that is not what is holding you back from being in the Matrix.

Also how the game caters to combo heavy pressure fighting. There have been countlessssss threads opened about that exact issue.

And in every thread the high level boys come in and vehemently disagree. I would say that right now pressure isn't really an issue even at mid-tier levels.

He's saying what most of us are feeling, almost spot on.

Considering half the video was him repeating "I'm not gonna lie, guys, the game sucks. I'm just being honest mate" that doesn't really mean much. Plus both this forum (with what 20 users?) and his video (less than 500 views) are meaningless compared to however big the player base is.

If you look at his channel, guy has played damn near every combat sports game there is and made videos on them. And again, he is also a Martial Artist irl. The experience with combat sports games for over a decade, and actually training and understanding the way the arts really work, give him a wide breadth of perspective that is valuable.

I don't judge people based on their hypothetical backgrounds but how they rationalize their opinions. Why does it matter if he has played some obscure Japan-exclusive K1 game from 25 years ago? Being a "martial artist" could mean both white belt (me) and GSP. How does his supposed martial artist knowledge show here? By him name-dropping rear naked choke and kimura and referencing mainstream MMA memes?

I'd throw it right back at you, that anyone who pretends these things aren't issues is hard to take seriously.

The issue isn't his opinion but his lackluster reasoning.

1:00 - He argues that "half a second button delay (massive exaggeration btw) opens the door for pattern play". It is a silly statement because martial arts are based on recognizing enemy patterns and exploiting them. For example, Stipe Miocic had a pattern of dropping his hands when he disengaged from clinch and DC used that to his advantage. When Dillashaw fought Cody the first time, he initially set up all his kicks with punches which Cody saw coming a mile away. He then broke his pattern by just winging a kick and it worked.

I suppose by pattern play he is referring to guys mixing up few combos. Even that is very common. Mixing body and head kicks is pattern play.

1:10 - "When there's a delay to buttons it is very hard to counter that they're just gonna keep spamming". "Spam" is a red flag that the person doesn't know what they are talking about. I used to complain about pressure fighting but I never called it spam because it just invalidates what they're doing correctly. True spam is something mindless like winging four hooks in a row which is ineffective.

The game has very clear counters to different moves (e.g. inside slip + cross vs. 1-2, back lean vs. 1-4 etc.) and the game's inputs are fast enough to execute them predictively.

1:55 - "You could actually be a legitimate grappler (in UD 3 compared to UFC )". This is just blatantly wrong.

1:57 - "Undisputed 3 was just much better grappling yknow you had the PRIDE mode" - The grappling was better because it had PRIDE mode.

2:00-2:40 - This is just him complaining without any reasoning. For some reason people think that adding how you're just being honest adds validity to what you are saying.

2:40-3:17 - "The lowest common denominator" - In my opinion the biggest issue this game has is that the new controls are incredibly inaccessible and unintuitive. How could anyone argue that Undisputed 3 didn't appeal to casuals more?

3:20 - The dreaded "arcadey nonsense" comment. Obviously the game isn't a simulator because hardcore simulators are a niche market.

3:35 " "It becomes DBZ or Tekken or SF. It's just a spammy mess of stun rocks nonsense". For some reason these guys always love to use traditional fighting games as a derogatory term when those games are more in-depth, skill-based and tactical than any MMA game can dream of. Combat sports games are more accessible / simplified fighting games which is actually why they appeal to me.

4:00 - "When I take people down they rage quit" - OK so he is playing quick matches. He is complaining about the state of online and he is basing his opinion on the most casual mode there is. People have no issues clinching or grappling at higher levels so despite him playing every obscure MMA game on the planet, he clearly doesn't have much credibility evaluating how people play UFC 3.

Also, he decided to title the video "As A Competitive Game It's A Mess". I find it funny because a lot of MMA sim elements would go directly against competitive integrity. The roster is deliberately unbalanced and aspects such as flash KOs would be glorified RNG. The judging is based on subjective evaluations rather than objective empirical data.

Finally, he decided to make this comment.

The online is random, messy and favours pattern play like mortal kombat due to the fact that the controls are laggy and there is a big delay from pushing the button to it being completed in the game. These pattern players are not reacting to what you do.....they are not seeing openings they simply walk into to you and throw the pre learnt combinations....they are not reacting to what you are doing they are simply playing the game like dragon ball z.....this game is ok single player but it’s a joke in multiplayer

1. I would say the game is all about reading what your opponent does and doing appropriate counters to them.
2. People "walking into you" is like the easiest thing to counter in the game.
3. "Pre learnt combinations". I never really got this complaint. For the most part the game uses very similar combinations to real life MMA. I would like there to be a bigger emphasis on individual strikes than combos but for the most part people throw basic stuff like 1-2s and 1-4s.


--

Yawn I waste too much of my life.

[Haz____]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

Now you are just throwing the word "arcadey" around without any basis for it.

You are also ignoring factors such as latency (which single-handedly ruins reactive playing in most traditional fighting games online), screen latency, your personal reaction (also note that you react slower to getting hit in a video game than getting hit in real life), controller input delay and then the in-game delay.

The game has an input delay issue but that is not what is holding you back from being in the Matrix.

The game is objectively arcadey. The lack of stamina management, being able to be dropped 10 times in a fight and come right back as if nothing happened, the focus on high volume boxing, ref stand ups from dominant positions, etc etc. It is a very arcadey fighting game experience.

And in every thread the high level boys come in and vehemently disagree. I would say that right now pressure isn't really an issue even at mid-tier levels.

The "high level boys" make up the smallest amount of the player base. If 75% of players are average, and have all these issues, 25% of the the players who mastered bad mechanics don't change the fact that the majority do find problems. Also, mastering bad mechanics doesn't make them not bad.

Considering half the video was him repeating "I'm not gonna lie, guys, the game sucks. I'm just being honest mate" that doesn't really mean much. Plus both this forum (with what 20 users?) and his video (less than 500 views) are meaningless compared to however big the player base is.

I don't judge people based on their hypothetical backgrounds but how they rationalize their opinions. Why does it matter if he has played some obscure Japan-exclusive K1 game from 25 years ago? Being a "martial artist" could mean both white belt (me) and GSP. How does his supposed martial artist knowledge show here? By him name-dropping rear naked choke and kimura and referencing mainstream MMA memes?

His channel used to be much more popular. Back when I watched him during UD3 days, he was on par with MMAGame in terms of viewers. But has since stopped producing content.

He is also a black belt in BJJ and has been training Martial Arts for years and years. He had been a long time Martial Artist even back in UD3 days which was like 10 years ago.

Also having experience with many other games in the exact same genre is unarguably relevant to have a full breadth of perspective on the current games in the genre.

If the only wrestling game you ever played was WwE2k18, you'd have nothing else to compare the gameplay to. If you've played 10 other wrestling games, you have a wider depth of knowledge to draw from and compare with.

Not to mention building an entire channel around combat sports games, means him being honest about his opinion with this series is nothing but detrimental to his goals, and his channel he had built up. It makes no sense to say those things, unless you really actually mean it, and being honest is more important than releasing content you don't agree with or enjoy.

The issue isn't his opinion but his lackluster reasoning.

1:00 - He argues that "half a second button delay (massive exaggeration btw) opens the door for pattern play". It is a silly statement because martial arts are based on recognizing enemy patterns and exploiting them. For example, Stipe Miocic had a pattern of dropping his hands when he disengaged from clinch and DC used that to his advantage. When Dillashaw fought Cody the first time, he initially set up all his kicks with punches which Cody saw coming a mile away. He then broke his pattern by just winging a kick and it worked.

I suppose by pattern play he is referring to guys mixing up few combos. Even that is very common. Mixing body and head kicks is pattern play.

He's referring to people cycling through the same combos over and over. Which can be insanely difficult to react to and requires predictive gameplay. Irl striking is a mixture of reactive and predictive pattern reading. The button delay makes being a reactive fighter extremely hard, while simply cycling through combos can net you a disproportionate amount of success through most levels of play.

1:10 - "When there's a delay to buttons it is very hard to counter that they're just gonna keep spamming". "Spam" is a red flag that the person doesn't know what they are talking about. I used to complain about pressure fighting but I never called it spam because it just invalidates what they're doing correctly. True spam is something mindless like winging four hooks in a row which is ineffective.

The game has very clear counters to different moves (e.g. inside slip + cross vs. 1-2, back lean vs. 1-4 etc.) and the game's inputs are fast enough to execute them predictively.

Hes referring to spam as non stop strikes being thrown. According to data I've posted in the past, striking output in UFC 3 is on average 3 times more than what you see in a real fight. And that's not taking into account 3 minute rounds, which only exacerbates the problem. In relation to real life striking output, the non stop striking in UFC 3 is spam.

The counters again come down to predictive gameplay. Which again circles back to input lag, and it's detrimental effects on gameplay.

1:55 - "You could actually be a legitimate grappler (in UD 3 compared to UFC )". This is just blatantly wrong.

1:57 - "Undisputed 3 was just much better grappling yknow you had the PRIDE mode" - The grappling was better because it had PRIDE mode.

2:00-2:40 - This is just him complaining without any reasoning. For some reason people think that adding how you're just being honest adds validity to what you are saying.

Hes talking about the FEEL of grappling. It has weight. It feels like you're actually grappling in UD3. UFC 3s grappling system is incredibly herky jerky, based around super goofy unrealistic fakes, guessing what way your opponent will move, and is just very unengaging.

This same sentiment has been brought up in the forums repeatedly. I am obsessed with BJJ and submission grappling IRL, I train twice a week, every week. It's an addiction and an outlet. Yet I just absolutly hate the grappling in this game. Nothing about it feels like real grappling at all. UD3s system had it faults, but the feel of it was way more onto something real and engaging.

2:40-3:17 - "The lowest common denominator" - In my opinion the biggest issue this game has is that the new controls are incredibly inaccessible and unintuitive. How could anyone argue that Undisputed 3 didn't appeal to casuals more?

I mean, it is. Before the undeniable takedown(another arcadey mechanic) was introduced, how many threads have opened up about this just being a kickboxing game, or about how boxing combinations are OP in ragards to other striking methods/strategys? Too many. You'd see it over and over.

Again the lack of stamina management, being able to eat rocks and knockdowns, stand ups from dominant grappling positions, etc, all point to a game catered to the masses, where an average joe can "bang bro" and have instant gratification.

The controls are debatable, but the base mechanics are intentionally geared towards casual play.

3:20 - The dreaded "arcadey nonsense" comment. Obviously the game isn't a simulator because hardcore simulators are a niche market.

3:35 " "It becomes DBZ or Tekken or SF. It's just a spammy mess of stun rocks nonsense". For some reason these guys always love to use traditional fighting games as a derogatory term when those games are more in-depth, skill-based and tactical than any MMA game can dream of. Combat sports games are more accessible / simplified fighting games which is actually why they appeal to me.

The game is much more akin to something like DBz or Powerstone than is an actual sports sim. For many reasons already listed repeatedly. I get that youre extremely into traditional fighters so you for some reason take the term "arcade" personally, but it's an opinion shared by many many players.

It has nothing to do with depth or level of complexity, and everything to do with playing a game that actually resembles the sport it's supposed to be emulating. 140 strikes a round(Almost an entire fights worth of strikes irl) is so far from anything resembling reality. Guys getting rocked and dropped over and over. Weird "Block breaking", and stuttering "Transition Fakes". These are the reasons why people call this game arcadey.

4:00 - "When I take people down they rage quit" - OK so he is playing quick matches. He is complaining about the state of online and he is basing his opinion on the most casual mode there is. People have no issues clinching or grappling at higher levels so despite him playing every obscure MMA game on the planet, he clearly doesn't have much credibility evaluating how people play UFC 3.

You see the same things in quick match that you do in the vast majority of ranked. Again, the top players actually make up the smallest percentage of players. If the majority of the player base has an issue, then it is an issue. Again, mastering bad mechanics doesn't make bad mechanics good mechanics.

I also see the same issues when watching Martial Mind videos. Him being annoying with non stop spam. Getting taken down and admitting hes just gonna be there the entire round due to goofy grappling mechanics, etc. Dealing with input lag. Having someone throw the same thing over and over, and knowing the appropriate counter, but not being able to implement it for some reason. Martial is a great player and showcases his skills frequently, but we are all dealing with the same nonsense.

Also, he decided to title the video "As A Competitive Game It's A Mess". I find it funny because a lot of MMA sim elements would go directly against competitive integrity. The roster is deliberately unbalanced and aspects such as flash KOs would be glorified RNG. The judging is based on subjective evaluations rather than objective empirical data.

The game is a very poor competetive game imo. I'm extremely competitive as a person, but see no reason mastering mechanics that are not fun, unengaging, unrealistic, and barely represent actual MMA.

But that's not to mention, any combat sports game, by nature is only going to be so competitive. For the very reasons you listed.

There's a reason you never have, and will never see a combat sports game as a true "e-sport".

Finally, he decided to make this comment.

1. I would say the game is all about reading what your opponent does and doing appropriate counters to them.
2. People "walking into you" is like the easiest thing to counter in the game.
3. "Pre learnt combinations". I never really got this complaint. For the most part the game uses very similar combinations to real life MMA. I would like there to be a bigger emphasis on individual strikes than combos but for the most part people throw basic stuff like 1-2s and 1-4s.

Yes. Exactly. The game is focused on predictive gameplay. Cycling through combos as mix ups on the offense, and making those reads on the defense. However, reactive gameplay is significantly harder, if not borderline non existent. The input lag, the speed and effectiveness of combos, the headmovement mechancis, magnetic striking, all lead to a streamlined gameplay experience focused of predictive gameplay, that only reflects a small portion of actual MMA strategy.

Martial Artists do practice and work on combinations irl, but in no fight ever will you see someone robotically throwing the same thing over and over while sliding across the mat.

Not to mention the entire block breaking meta is focused on memorizing "block breakers" to actually deal damage or finish a fight.

Trying to play the game with smart, well placed single shots, or small realistic combinations is a recipe for disaster in the current meta.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

I'm going to ignore most of your personal opinions because that's not really what I'm interested in. I'm just here to complain about how poor that video was.

The game is objectively arcadey. The lack of stamina management, being able to be dropped 10 times in a fight and come right back as if nothing happened, the focus on high volume boxing, ref stand ups from dominant positions, etc etc. It is a very arcadey fighting game experience.

This still doesn't fix the problem that you are using the wrong word. Arcadey refers to characteristics of an arcade game which is nothing like this. If you used the word gamey I wouldn't have an issue with the premise lol.

The "high level boys" make up the smallest amount of the player base. If 75% of players are average, and have all these issues, 25% of the the players who mastered bad mechanics don't change the fact that the majority do find problems. Also, mastering bad mechanics doesn't make them not bad.

You can't say that the game "caters to pressure fighting" when it is considered to be an unviable tactic among the most proficient players.

His channel used to be much more popular. Back when I watched him during UD3 days, he was on par with MMAGame in terms of viewers. But has since stopped producing content.

So instead of being irrelevant he was tiny.

He is also a black belt in BJJ and has been training Martial Arts for years and years. He had been a long time Martial Artist even back in UD3 days which was like 10 years ago.

I can't really comment on any of this because this information isn't up anywhere. I assume he's said it in a video somewhere? Still, it doesn't really matter a whole lot to me because he doesn't showcase this martial arts knowledge when he talks about the issues.

Also having experience with many other games in the exact same genre is unarguably relevant to have a full breadth of perspective on the current games in the genre.

If the only wrestling game you ever played was WwE2k18, you'd have nothing else to compare the gameplay to. If you've played 10 other wrestling games, you have a wider depth of knowledge to draw from and compare with.

It's really not all that important lol. The only comparison he uses is Undisputed 3 so for all intents and purposes all you need to know is Undisputed 3 and you can challenge his views.

Not to mention building an entire channel around combat sports games, means him being honest about his opinion with this series is nothing but detrimental to his goals, and his channel he had built up. It makes no sense to say those things, unless you really actually mean it, and being honest is more important than releasing content you don't agree with or enjoy.

He has plenty of videos that are not about combat sports games though. He arguably has more non-combat sports videos. Besides, what goals does he have when he has 8000 subs? You are talking as if he is a voluntary martyr who is sacrificing big skrilla for his integrity when in reality he's some random dude who does videos for fun and that's it.

He's referring to people cycling through the same combos over and over. Which can be insanely difficult to react to and requires predictive gameplay. Irl striking is a mixture of reactive and predictive pattern reading. The button delay makes being a reactive fighter extremely hard, while simply cycling through combos can net you a disproportionate amount of success through most levels of play.

You are comparing the mud tier levels of video game to the highest level of a big sport. There are not many fighters with the reflexes to do what you two fantasize about and even then it is more nuanced than just reacting. And again, the most common mix-up in the game is 1-2 and 1-4 which are by far the most common combinations in real life MMA as well.

Fact is that reactive striking is nigh impossible on online already and those who can do it are at the big boy level that you have already discredited.

Hes referring to spam as non stop strikes being thrown. According to data I've posted in the past, striking output in UFC 3 is on average 3 times more than what you see in a real fight. And that's not taking into account 3 minute rounds, which only exacerbates the problem. In relation to real life striking output, the non stop striking in UFC 3 is spam.

Calling it spam just dumbs down the whole argument you are trying to present and I've been one of the most vocal whiners of high volume outputs.

Hes talking about the FEEL of grappling. It has weight. It feels like you're actually grappling in UD3. UFC 3s grappling system is incredibly herky jerky, based around super goofy unrealistic fakes, guessing what way your opponent will move, and is just very unengaging.

This is definitely not what he said. I'm not sure he even knows what transition fakes are.

I mean, it is. Before the undeniable takedown(another arcadey mechanic) was introduced, how many threads have opened up about this just being a kickboxing game, or about how boxing combinations are OP in ragards to other striking methods/strategys? Too many. You'd see it over and over.

"The lowest common denominator" are the people you face in quick mode who do not do these things. You are also leaving out things like duck-takedowns that had to be nerfed.

Again the lack of stamina management, being able to eat rocks and knockdowns, stand ups from dominant grappling positions, etc, all point to a game catered to the masses, where an average joe can "bang bro" and have instant gratification.

Again, high level players say the game is all about stamina management but I guess the "black belt" who plays the game once every 3 months knows how the game functions better than they do.

It is very easy to gas out opponents in this game. It's just that they made them very gamey mechanics (dodging attacks vs opponent whiffing them) but hey I actually much prefer it that way because it is more skillful.

The game is much more akin to something like DBz or Powerstone than is an actual sports sim. For many reasons already listed repeatedly. I get that youre extremely into traditional fighters so you for some reason take the term "arcade" personally, but it's an opinion shared by many many players.

I'm really not. I'm just calling people out for talking about something they know nothing about.

It has nothing to do with depth or level of complexity, and everything to do with playing a game that actually resembles the sport it's supposed to be emulating. 140 strikes a round(Almost an entire fights worth of strikes irl) is so far from anything resembling reality. Guys getting rocked and dropped over and over. Weird "Block breaking", and stuttering "Transition Fakes". These are the reasons why people call this game arcadey.

He is evidently implying that DBZ etc are spammy games which is not the case. This is another case of you putting words in his mouth because he did not bring up any of these things in his video.

You see the same things in quick match that you do in the vast majority of ranked. Again, the top players actually make up the smallest percentage of players. If the majority of the player base has an issue, then it is an issue. Again, mastering bad mechanics doesn't make bad mechanics good mechanics.

I certainly don't and I've played more quick matches than ranked. Top players make a small percentage but you can't make claims like that the game doesn't care about stamina management when the game at its peak revolves around stamina management.

I also see the same issues when watching Martial Mind videos. Him being annoying with non stop spam. Getting taken down and admitting hes just gonna be there the entire round due to goofy grappling mechanics, etc. Dealing with input lag. Having someone throw the same thing over and over, and knowing the appropriate counter, but not being able to implement it for some reason. Martial is a great player and showcases his skills frequently, but we are all dealing with the same nonsense.

And Martial Mind can rationalize his viewpoints very eloquently unlike sakuraba1982 who just calls things bad while repeating how he's "just being honest".

The game is a very poor competetive game imo. I'm extremely competitive as a person, but see no reason mastering mechanics that are not fun, unengaging, unrealistic, and barely represent actual MMA.

But that's not to mention, any combat sports game, by nature is only going to be so competitive. For the very reasons you listed.

There's a reason you never have, and will never see a combat sports game as a true "e-sport".

It doesn't need to be an esport. I'm yet again simply critiquing him for saying that the game isn't a "competitive multiplayer" and proceeds to only talk about simulation aspects which are inherently uncompetitive.

Anyway, it seems that you misinterpreted what I meant by competitive. What I meant is that a competitive video game (as in aspiring esports game) should aim towards balance and as little RNG as possible. A competitive sports simulator is an oxymoron.

You don't strike as a very competitive person if you opt to play quick matches (neither am I).

[Haz____]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

I'm going to ignore most of your personal opinions because that's not really what I'm interested in. I'm just here to complain about how poor that video was.



This still doesn't fix the problem that you are using the wrong word. Arcadey refers to characteristics of an arcade game which is nothing like this. If you used the word gamey I wouldn't have an issue with the premise lol.




You can't say that the game "caters to pressure fighting" when it is considered to be an unviable tactic among the most proficient players.



So instead of being irrelevant he was tiny.



I can't really comment on any of this because this information isn't up anywhere. I assume he's said it in a video somewhere? Still, it doesn't really matter a whole lot to me because he doesn't showcase this martial arts knowledge when he talks about the issues.



It's really not all that important lol. The only comparison he uses is Undisputed 3 so for all intents and purposes all you need to know is Undisputed 3 and you can challenge his views.



He has plenty of videos that are not about combat sports games though. He arguably has more non-combat sports videos. Besides, what goals does he have when he has 8000 subs? You are talking as if he is a voluntary martyr who is sacrificing big skrilla for his integrity when in reality he's some random dude who does videos for fun and that's it.



You are comparing the mud tier levels of video game to the highest level of a big sport. There are not many fighters with the reflexes to do what you two fantasize about and even then it is more nuanced than just reacting. And again, the most common mix-up in the game is 1-2 and 1-4 which are by far the most common combinations in real life MMA as well.

Fact is that reactive striking is nigh impossible on online already and those who can do it are at the big boy level that you have already discredited.



Calling it spam just dumbs down the whole argument you are trying to present and I've been one of the most vocal whiners of high volume outputs.



This is definitely not what he said. I'm not sure he even knows what transition fakes are.




"The lowest common denominator" are the people you face in quick mode who do not do these things. You are also leaving out things like duck-takedowns that had to be nerfed.




Again, high level players say the game is all about stamina management but I guess the "black belt" who plays the game once every 3 months knows how the game functions better than they do.

It is very easy to gas out opponents in this game. It's just that they made them very gamey mechanics (dodging attacks vs opponent whiffing them) but hey I actually much prefer it that way because it is more skillful.



I'm really not. I'm just calling people out for talking about something they know nothing about.



He is evidently implying that DBZ etc are spammy games which is not the case. This is another case of you putting words in his mouth because he did not bring up any of these things in his video.



I certainly don't and I've played more quick matches than ranked. Top players make a small percentage but you can't make claims like that the game doesn't care about stamina management when the game at its peak revolves around stamina management.



And Martial Mind can rationalize his viewpoints very eloquently unlike sakuraba1982 who just calls things bad while repeating how he's "just being honest".




It doesn't need to be an esport. I'm yet again simply critiquing him for saying that the game isn't a "competitive multiplayer" and proceeds to only talk about simulation aspects which are inherently uncompetitive.

Anyway, it seems that you misinterpreted what I meant by competitive. What I meant is that a competitive video game (as in aspiring esports game) should aim towards balance and as little RNG as possible. A competitive sports simulator is an oxymoron.

You don't strike as a very competitive person if you opt to play quick matches (neither am I).

I really can't waste another 30 minutes multi quoting you. I interpret what youre saying as a person who is way too defensive about traditional fighting games, and as a person who has openly admitted they don't care about the MMA elements and wants gameplay solely geared towards competetive play, in a game that will always be inherently non competitive.

We couldn't be on further ends of the spectrum. Realism is the only thing that matters to me, and UFC 3 in It's current state is incredibly "Video Gamey" and the opposite of what I want in an MMA game.

The very top players represent the smallest percentage of the player base. And even the top players, aside from just grapple ****ing someone, still have to resort to block breakers and volume striking to win their fights.

You have completely ignored many repetitive points about how video gamey and arcadey the game is, and even admit you don't care.

There's no further discussion to be had with you. Your stance represents a very small percentage of the player base.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

I really can't waste another 30 minutes multi quoting you. I interpret what youre saying as a person who is way too defensive about traditional fighting games, and as a person who has openly admitted they don't care about the MMA elements and wants gameplay solely geared towards competetive play, in a game that will always be inherently non competitive.

We couldn't be on further ends of the spectrum. Realism is the only thing that matters to me, and UFC 3 in It's current state is incredibly "Video Gamey" and the opposite of what I want in an MMA game.

The very top players represent the smallest percentage of the player base. And even the top players, aside from just grapple ****ing someone, still have to resort to block breakers and volume striking to win their fights.

You have completely ignored many repetitive points about how video gamey and arcadey the game is, and even admit you don't care.

There's no further discussion to be had with you. Your stance represents a very small percentage of the player base.

My actual stance is that I am in favor of realism as long as it doesn't get in the way of fun which is probably the most popular demographic. I think this forum has a lot of "realism purists" who haven't actually thought about how bad an actual MMA simulator would be.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

My actual stance is that I am in favor of realism as long as it doesn't get in the way of fun which is probably the most popular demographic. I think this forum has a lot of "realism purists" who haven't actually thought about how bad an actual MMA simulator would be.

Which parts of MMA wouldnt be fun for you to play?

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

I don't wanna be Jon Fitch dry humped for 3 rounds.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

[bmlimo]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

I don't wanna be Jon Fitch dry humped for 3 rounds.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

This already can happen, in fact, is the only effective grappling strategy
If u want to grapple u have to lay n pray

[OneDrop]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

My actual stance is that I am in favor of realism as long as it doesn't get in the way of fun which is probably the most popular demographic. I think this forum has a lot of "realism purists" who haven't actually thought about how bad an actual MMA simulator would be.

We want a game that at least passes the eye test. It has to look like an MMA fight, which at the moment it doesn't. Most fights are mindless brawls at the mid tier level and I often come outof fights thinking "what the ****, this was more like a bar brawl than an actual MMA fight". It doesn't have to be 100% realistic or an actual simulator but at least encourage realistic fighting through effectiveness opposed to throwing combos until you rock someone, after throwing 200 strikes over a round and a half, so you can break their block.

[oshighwayman]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

1.i dont know what s wrong with my style of writing, i am trying to be as brief as possible and just get to the point i am trying to make but i guess my mind and thinking works in way that others cant understand what i am trying to say, it s embarassing and i am sorry but i dont really know what to do about that


2.before getting lost in details i want to say i am extremely disappointed with UFC3 because more i play this game i discover more things i dont really like and i personally dont understand why choices were made to look this game like it looks and plays right now


i just want to say also this-


a) EA is ruining their games because of corporate greed, in like 1 or 2 years they ruined lot of my favourite games- Battlefield, StarWars Battlefront, Mass Effect
i think EA spent more money on advertising UFC3 then they actually paid UFCdev and his studio, i also think they might rushed them and pressure them, because at the end of the day EA only care about shareholders and not about us or devs or anything like that


b) ULTIMATE TEAM is only mode i really play in UFC3 and overall balance in this mode is just sad, i played thousands of matches in UT UFC2 and had some fun, i play UFC3 only for daily objective and i dont enjoy anything anymore, i am feeling frustrated more and more even when i win few matches in row


and u know what people on this forum were right UT UFC3 is total failure, it s one big unbalanced mess tainted with corporate greed, hundreds of useless cards, useless temporary cards, weird and unbalanced slots and stats distribution, LIMIT on how many coins u can earn daily (so game is punishing u for actually playing game ) , ridiculous matchups golden vs elite fighters, playerbase almost nonexistent i am playing like same 10 people over and over, ridiculous differences between combo levels especially lvl 3 vs lvl 5 etc.



3. UFC3 brought some really new interesting ideas and mechanics, but the way that everything is glued together is not making really sense to me and it s making me really frustrated


3a) NOTHING is explained, those "tutorials" which re in game right now are like bad joke, game is complicated enough and i must be explained so people can understand what s going on


i hate being in limbo and being left behind with guessing game what s going on-



-oh was it delay?
-oh does guy has 1ms monitor?
-oh does guy has better/worse internet?

-oh was that vulnerability?
-oh was i too slow?
-oh did i queued something by mistake?
etc.


it s extremely frustrating trying to figure out what s happening

and generally speaking this UFC3 seems more turn based than usually, i am owner of ufc 1,2,3 but this one with delay, input lag, lag, delay, unresponsivity however u want to call it it s just worst


i am literally watching myself pressing one button more than once and combo queue is just way too long in this game, so i throw combination then nothing and then some lost press of button cames suddenly alive


or what s even worse some sidesteps or lunges lost in time become alive out of blue and i am out of stamina and end up koed


3b) single player weird things- because i played some of UT SP for grinding coins, i noticed that sometimes AI counterstrike ur queued combo and it seems to me that game wont even show u start up frames of ur strike but ur character will have vulnerability allready


let s say i throw something like 1,2 headkick, 1,2 lands and then AI throw some counter and it feels like ur fighter has been hit while kicking but u never got to see any frames of that kick


so it s like game is comparing combo queues or counter/defense queues and then just choosing what to display and that can be very confusing



4. after watching videos from Martial mind, Romero, i am muhboxer, Pryoxis, Ricky J, reading SolidAltair striking guide and things here n there on this forum i am still not getting large parts of standup


and i just want to say that s me and i think there were people who just gave up on game and there not playing anymore because they got frustrated enough and this ingame embargo on information it s just bad and i filled surveys in UFC2 writing there "we need tutorials", but same mistake is being repeated again n again


i understand that people on this forum say there s 8k or something like that on Ranked, but i only play UT, and UT on UFC2 there wasnt any problem for finding matches, only problem had people who were like in div 8 or something, here in UFC3 i am getting "couldnt find opponnent" message everyday or again i am being matched against same 10 people over and over again


i just saw post here on some Bleeding mechanics.. i didnt even know that such a mechanics is in place here, i know and saw some strikes bleeding through like overhands n headkicks but i didnt know that there s mechanics like that in place.. imagine my surprise.. and again nobody s mentioning this


now from what i think Rmonkey mentioned, whoever gets hits first deals less damage, well this doesnt work great with online connectivity issues


combo queues, mechanics like that one, vulnerability, combo levels, movement or stationary multipliers and other mechanics i am not even aware of , this ALL combined can result in totally frustrating mess


it s like this guy s shooting combo, if i let my block too fast i am getting hit, rock or worse by last strike in his combo, happened to me a lot


if i let my block go too slow he throws combo and gets out of range


and this is really frustrating for me, because i dont know if it s me or connection or something else


and i think other people are getting frustrated too and they refer to it as input lag generally speaking


i can tell for almost sure that guy has better internet, if he can deny my transition after i deny his and immediately go for transition with all of my GA and maxed stats, and on other hand he goes for regular transition with no GA and i know which direction is he going and i m denying as soon i see him move but he still gets through


5. at this point i am not even sure what i wanted to originally say, but i guess it was something about that UFC3 can be extremely frustrating to lot of players and devs probably should try to more listen to other players than just TOP players, because pressure fighting can be real issue in UT especially, i mean other day i got walked down by Master Connor with my golden Khabib and i couldnt do anything (u have so few slots on standup for Grappler i only try to have something in footwork and speed) , in UT UFC2 there wasnt such a difference in move level 3 and 5 but here with combo levels difference and fighter level difference it s way too wild


but the biggest problem still is netcode and lag compensation and u can see there re different used for standup and for ground game, if it s game choppy on standup it will become much more choppier on ground


i dont think we will ever have dedicated servers, because EA corporation is cheap and they will keep money for themselves


but yeah i am 1000% for dedicated servers, they helped for sure other games

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

Which parts of MMA wouldnt be fun for you to play?

For instance lay and pray. I also wouldn't like every Cro Cop headkick being a 99% chance KO.

We want a game that at least passes the eye test. It has to look like an MMA fight, which at the moment it doesn't. Most fights are mindless brawls at the mid tier level and I often come outof fights thinking "what the ****, this was more like a bar brawl than an actual MMA fight". It doesn't have to be 100% realistic or an actual simulator but at least encourage realistic fighting through effectiveness opposed to throwing combos until you rock someone, after throwing 200 strikes over a round and a half, so you can break their block.

Haz said "Realism is the only thing that matters to me". It sounds like you guys have different ideas of what you want.

For what it's worth, I campaigned for lower strike volume 9 months ago so I think that is an example of a realism change that would make the game more fun for me as well.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Why is nobody talking about biggest problem this game have?

For instance lay and pray. I also wouldn't like every Cro Cop headkick being a 99% chance KO.



Haz said "Realism is the only thing that matters to me". It sounds like you guys have different ideas of what you want.

For what it's worth, I campaigned for lower strike volume 9 months ago so I think that is an example of a realism change that would make the game more fun for me as well.

Lay and pray is already a thing, for cro crop headkicks yeah I think 99 percent is too high, would have to be stationary only. I'd be happy with a high percentage though.