Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

The comp players who post here id agree. But those players are the minority in the competition scene. Most never heard of os like ek diaz nextz swiftt trickz warrior 472 and many others. Id liken these players here to the punch flick advocates in ud3 and they know it. A big problem with pressure too is how overpowered combinations are and how most counters require anticipation instead of reaction.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but this has been a known and spoken about issue for a very long time, lots of comp players don't want to change the game, here and the discord. Bringing it up again for the sake of it isn't worth it as it's very unlikely to change.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I'm not disagreeing with you, but this has been a known and spoken about issue for a very long time, lots of comp players don't want to change the game, here and the discord. Bringing it up again for the sake of it isn't worth it as it's very unlikely to change.

Lots of them.

This is what I dont understand. The devs have always been consistent with trying to find a middle ground.

So if most of the people on OS wanted circling and most if not all the comp fighters want a realistic feature like circling...why isnt their a middle ground in the game currently? Shoot, **** a middle ground....if pretty much everyone agrees that its a priority and its needed in the game, why isnt it in the game?

Its not like the devs have never discussed circling with the GCs. The devs have as a part of the movement changes they made last year. They couldve easily added circling to the mo cap sessions they did on movement.

Now 1212 has this theory that guys like Kenetic have so much pull behind the scenes that they are the reason this hasnt happened. He also believes that one man (Kenetic) is the reason why Diaz's 1-2 was so fast at release (a statement Kenetic strongly denies). Thinking that one man or even 3-4 guys would force the devs to keep the game a certain way is unrealistic.

In fact, many of the comp GCs were hesitant about adding movement tools to the game last year because of running. They stated many of the reasons I stated earlier. GPD didnt say "Well the comp guys hate it so I'm not adding to it." He recognized that people at OS and feedback from casuals stated that movement was an issue and he did his best to do make everyone happy.

So it comes down to two things: Either there are a few select people behind the scenes that hate circling and want to keep the meta the way it is or more realistic movement tools are not as universally wanted by comp players as 1212 is stating? What do you think is more likely?

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Lots of them.

This is what I dont understand. The devs have always been consistent with trying to find a middle ground.

So if most of the people on OS wanted circling and most if not all the comp fighters want a realistic feature like circling...why isnt their a middle ground in the game currently? Shoot, **** a middle ground....if pretty much everyone agrees that its a priority and its needed in the game, why isnt it in the game?

Its not like the devs have never discussed circling with the GCs. The devs have as a part of the movement changes they made last year. They couldve easily added circling to the mo cap sessions they did on movement.

Now 1212 has this theory that guys like Kenetic have so much pull behind the scenes that they are the reason this hasnt happened. He also believes that one man (Kenetic) is the reason why Diaz's 1-2 was so fast at release (a statement Kenetic strongly denies). Thinking that one man or even 3-4 guys would force the devs to keep the game a certain way is unrealistic.

In fact, many of the comp GCs were hesitant about adding movement tools to the game last year because of running. They stated many of the reasons I stated earlier. GPD didnt say "Well the comp guys hate it so I'm not adding to it." He recognized that people at OS and feedback from casuals stated that movement was an issue and he did his best to do make everyone happy.

So it comes down to two things: Either there are a few select people behind the scenes that hate circling and want to keep the meta the way it is or more realistic movement tools are not as universally wanted by comp players as 1212 is stating? What do you think is more likely?

Maybe both?
Maybe the select people instead of put the good and bad aspects based on a fight, they only see what is good for them, and what will make them continue With they W streak.
Comp players... they don’t care about fun or realism, they only care about winning, they have a game that they were good with the current mechanic and don’t want to change.

I saw an argument in Twitter gpd and a “guy”, the guy was telling people to uninstall the game, gpd asked why and the guy answered “I’m not gonna say because people will bash the game and your work”... gpd stated that they would bash the guy too because the guy was a gamechanger and he worked in the changes and gameplay that the guy wanted... select people sure have a voice on decisions

[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Lots of them.

This is what I dont understand. The devs have always been consistent with trying to find a middle ground.

So if most of the people on OS wanted circling and most if not all the comp fighters want a realistic feature like circling...why isnt their a middle ground in the game currently? Shoot, **** a middle ground....if pretty much everyone agrees that its a priority and its needed in the game, why isnt it in the game?

Its not like the devs have never discussed circling with the GCs. The devs have as a part of the movement changes they made last year. They couldve easily added circling to the mo cap sessions they did on movement.

Now 1212 has this theory that guys like Kenetic have so much pull behind the scenes that they are the reason this hasnt happened. He also believes that one man (Kenetic) is the reason why Diaz's 1-2 was so fast at release (a statement Kenetic strongly denies). Thinking that one man or even 3-4 guys would force the devs to keep the game a certain way is unrealistic.

In fact, many of the comp GCs were hesitant about adding movement tools to the game last year because of running. They stated many of the reasons I stated earlier. GPD didnt say "Well the comp guys hate it so I'm not adding to it." He recognized that people at OS and feedback from casuals stated that movement was an issue and he did his best to do make everyone happy.

So it comes down to two things: Either there are a few select people behind the scenes that hate circling and want to keep the meta the way it is or more realistic movement tools are not as universally wanted by comp players as 1212 is stating? What do you think is more likely?

Tools to deal with 'running':
1. Cutting off (circling along)
2. Grappling
3. Herding (opposite of cutting off)
4. Plant and wait
5. Circling away yourself
6. Strike
7. Circling strikes

When (unskilled) comp complains about not having 'fun', them not using tools is not brought up... but when sim complains about not having 'fun' not using tools is the main talking point.

Actual skilled comp uses the tools and can check 'running'. It's being admitted unskilled comp is being catered to at the expense of actual real skilled comp.

BTW a middle ground entails satisfying both sides, not completely accommodating comp players that don't want circling by excluding the feature for everyone else that does want it.

There's a difference between participating in competitive modes and actually being skilled.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Maybe both?
Maybe the select people instead of put the good and bad aspects based on a fight, they only see what is good for them, and what will make them continue With they W streak.
Comp players... they don’t care about fun or realism, they only care about winning, they have a game that they were good with the current mechanic and don’t want to change.

I saw an argument in Twitter gpd and a “guy”, the guy was telling people to uninstall the game, gpd asked why and the guy answered “I’m not gonna say because people will bash the game and your work”... gpd stated that they would bash the guy too because the guy was a gamechanger and he worked in the changes and gameplay that the guy wanted... select people sure have a voice on decisions

I'm glad you mentioned that. That other guy was Kenetic but it doesnt mean what you think it means.

I'll give you an example of what happens behind the scenes sometimes. Lets take the back retreat. GPD showed us an example of the back retreat months before it was put in the game.

Guys like Martial and I loved it because it was a tool that would address the movement complaints. Some on the team liked it but were hesitant it would lead to running. Some on the team hated it and because they thought all people would use it for is too run.

So along with the devs, we all discussed whether there needs to be more stamina drain or something to balance it. I didnt think there was a need to balance it but others did so they added the stamina drain. When the devs discovered the stamina drain was too much, they reduced it.

So if Kenetic had all this pull....the retreat likely wouldnt be in the game at all. He wouldve been able to overrule the rest of us and that wouldve been that.

Back to the exchange on Twitter, what GPD is referring to is that when it came to UFC 3, GPD would ask for our input on ALOT of gameplay things and there were alot of things that Kenetic and others advocated for and got in the game. There were also alot of things that they didnt want that are in the game.

Keep in mind, GPD isnt dumb. He's not going to add something simply because Kenetic or another comp gamechanger or I wants it. He's active on Twitter, OS, Discord and other sites. He verifies that this is something that the certain communities want before adding something.

The point it appears that GPD is making is that you shouldnt go around telling people to uninstall the game when a good amount of things you (and the people you represent (comp players)) wanted were added to the game.

[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

^ Given how rarely the retreat was used initially because of the massive stamina tax... we can see the stamina tax affects player habits.

If circling in the form of lateral sprint were added it could have a similar (if not worse) stamina tax. This can compound when circling behind the two black lines with your back to the cage so cutting the cage is at the advantage. This could go further with a slowdown for circling with your back against the cage.

Then the concern of 'running' is curbed and comp wouldn't even have a reason to complain as they can easily deal with 'running' in the same way tunings made body 1212 easy to deal with.

The point ironically is aholbert isn't responding to new data and hasn't presented any counter arguments to these despite trying to project that onto me.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

^ Given how rarely the retreat was used initially because of the massive stamina tax... we can see the stamina tax affects player habits.

If circling in the form of lateral sprint were added it could have a similar (if not worse) stamina tax. This can compound when circling behind the two black lines with your back to the cage so cutting the cage is at the advantage. This could go further with a slowdown for circling with your back against the cage.

Then the concern of 'running' is curbed and comp wouldn't even have a reason to complain as they can easily deal with 'running' in the same way tunings made body 1212 easy to deal with.

The point ironically is aholbert isn't responding to new data and hasn't presented any counter arguments to these despite trying to project that onto me.

My last two points werent me presenting an argument other than that no 1 person has that much input over the game.

I havent stated that there isnt a circling middle ground. I havent stated whether or not a stamina tax would work here or not. I actually stated earlier that I dont buy running as a legitimate issue in the past or current meta of the game.

I dont know how I can make that clearer other than stating it over and over again but I wont. Again, I ask that you stop addressing me directly. I have no interests in derailing this thread again or having a conversation with you about the game or anything. I'd like to avoid this conversation derailing and both of us risking a ban. Thanks.

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I'm glad you mentioned that. That other guy was Kenetic but it doesnt mean what you think it means.

I'll give you an example of what happens behind the scenes sometimes. Lets take the back retreat. GPD showed us an example of the back retreat months before it was put in the game.

Guys like Martial and I loved it because it was a tool that would address the movement complaints. Some on the team liked it but were hesitant it would lead to running. Some on the team hated it and because they thought all people would use it for is too run.

So along with the devs, we all discussed whether there needs to be more stamina drain or something to balance it. I didnt think there was a need to balance it but others did so they added the stamina drain. When the devs discovered the stamina drain was too much, they reduced it.

So if Kenetic had all this pull....the retreat likely wouldnt be in the game at all. He wouldve been able to overrule the rest of us and that wouldve been that.

Back to the exchange on Twitter, what GPD is referring to is that when it came to UFC 3, GPD would ask for our input on ALOT of gameplay things and there were alot of things that Kenetic and others advocated for and got in the game. There were also alot of things that they didnt want that are in the game.

Keep in mind, GPD isnt dumb. He's not going to add something simply because Kenetic or another comp gamechanger or I wants it. He's active on Twitter, OS, Discord and other sites. He verifies that this is something that the certain communities want before adding something.

The point it appears that GPD is making is that you shouldnt go around telling people to uninstall the game when a good amount of things you (and the people you represent (comp players)) wanted were added to the game.

I don’t think gpd is dumb, he judge what is better for the game, what I wanted to say is that the guy was vocal in changes, doesn’t mean gpd put everything the guy wanted but his opinions had weight.
Also it kinda shows how choose people who understand the sport is necessary, obvious the guy just tried to push the game to his comfort zone when things didn’t came to his way, he quit and started to bash the game.

[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

My last two points werent me presenting an argument other than that no 1 person has that much input over the game.

I havent stated that there isnt a circling middle ground. I havent stated whether or not a stamina tax would work here or not. I actually stated earlier that I dont buy running as a legitimate issue in the past or current meta of the game.

I dont know how I can make that clearer other than stating it over and over again but I wont. Again, I ask that you stop addressing me directly. I have no interests in derailing this thread again or having a conversation with you about the game or anything. I'd like to avoid this conversation derailing and both of us risking a ban. Thanks.

You don't have to respond when I quote you. Asking someone to not address you is counter to the purpose of an official discussion board like this, especially as a GC.

Again you keep bringing this back to you. I am specifically referring to the comp argument you keep presenting. But you have been hiding yourself from addressing new information and presenting counter arguments by keep bringing it back to yourself despite me addressing the comp argument.

The point is there are several discrepancies (like stamina tax, tools to handle 'running', tunings to make cage cutting better against circling away- something GPD has been looking for, etc) I pointed out (new information) that invalidate the arguments you presented for comp.

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

About the lateral movement, they could use as a modifier when close to the cage

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

You don't have to respond when I quote you. Asking someone to not address you is counter to the purpose of an official discussion board like this, especially as a GC.

Again you keep bringing this back to you. I am specifically referring to the comp argument you keep presenting. But you have been hiding yourself from addressing new information and presenting counter arguments by keep bringing it back to yourself despite me addressing the comp argument.

The point is there are several discrepancies (like stamina tax, tools to handle 'running', tunings to make cage cutting better against circling away- something GPD has been looking for, etc) I pointed out (new information) that invalidate the arguments you presented for comp.

Man he doesn’t want to talk to you, please, stop flooding they will ban you, and I don’t want other realism guy banned

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I don’t think gpd is dumb, he judge what is better for the game, what I wanted to say is that the guy was vocal in changes, doesn’t mean gpd put everything the guy wanted but his opinions had weight.
Also it kinda shows how choose people who understand the sport is necessary, obvious the guy just tried to push the game to his comfort zone when things didn’t came to his way, he quit and started to bash the game.

Kenetic knows the sport. Its just Kenetic and I see the game VERY differently. I see it from a sports/sim perspective. He sees it from a competitive player perspective.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

You don't have to respond when I quote you. Asking someone to not address you is counter to the purpose of an official discussion board like this, especially as a GC.

Again you keep bringing this back to you. I am specifically referring to the comp argument you keep presenting. But you have been hiding yourself from addressing new information and presenting counter arguments by keep bringing it back to yourself despite me addressing the comp argument.

The point is there are several discrepancies (like stamina tax, tools to handle 'running', tunings to make cage cutting better against circling away- something GPD has been looking for, etc) I pointed out (new information) that invalidate the arguments you presented for comp.

You quoted me directly in your first post earlier and I ignored it. You then used an arrow to point at my next post and addressed me by name in that post.

Like I said, please stop. GC's are not obligated to answer questions from every forum member. I choose not to answer questions from you. As you can see, I'm having a direct converstation with bmlimo and its going fine. I would like to continue that convo. Please stop addressing me directly. I will never answer a gameplay or game related question from you again. No matter how many times you address me. So please stop wasting my and your time and derailing this thread. Thanks.

[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Man he doesn’t want to talk to you, please, stop flooding they will ban you, and I don’t want other realism guy banned

He doesn't have to respond. If anyone gets banned it should be him for all the personal attacks, derailing, rudeness, etc. Nobody should be above the TOS.

I've tried to keep this thread on topic, despite his repeated attempts at undermining community requests.

The point that has been avoided is his comp argument has fallen flat under criticism, but he keeps deflecting it back to himself as a distraction tactic... something he has done regularly when presenting other's arguments, it's his out.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Man he doesn’t want to talk to you, please, stop flooding they will ban you, and I don’t want other realism guy banned

They wont ban me because I'm not going to play into it. I had the time to **** around on Friday but I'm not in the mood today. I'm watching Game of Thrones and I dont want to be distracted. LOL.