Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[ZombieRommel]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Sorry if I wasnt clear. That isnt what Im saying or what he was saying.

You CAN still deny it but the window is small. The window should vary depending on TD offense vs TD defense.

Honestly there should be a perk for guys like Aldo/Jones who have great hips and can still defend a TD on one leg.

Barboza struggles against wrestlers because of this concept as well. It’s very real.

If it worked how you think it works it might be fine. I added the CAVEAT that the TD's are technically deniable.

But in practice, online, they're undeniable. You can't predeny during the recovery of the kick. So even if you see the opponent shooting from a mile away, chances are high you're going for a ride.

To some extent I would be OK with this if the GA, stats, and latency STILL allowed for well timed stuffs once the grappler attacks the legs with a shot, but they don't.

In practice, online, against someone who knows what they are doing, every clean leg kick will result in you getting slammed into side control, if that's what they want to do.

That's what I have a problem with.

I'm being honest with you in describing EXACTLY how the mechanics work because I've talked to the devs about it. Other kicks (body, head) give you enough hit stun and GA (as the kicker) on hit that the opponent can't just bulldoze forward during the kick's recovery and get a takedown.

But during leg kicks they can. I could have just lied and said "The takedown is totally undeniable" and you likely would have been none the wiser. Because for all intents and purposes, the shot is undeniable online after you land the leg kick (you get only a few miliseconds to hit the denial, which any amount of lag makes virtually impossible, on top of stat differentials).

I'm being 100% transparent in telling you there is a window that amounts to 2-3 frames, in lag where you can hit the denial, if you time it, even though you can't predeny. I could have covered up that fact to strengthen my argument.

It's not even about "matchups" as you are suggesting. I can pick guys with absolutely dreadful takedown stats and get nearly undeniable takedowns on Khabib / Cormier. That's how strong the GA is on recovery of the kick. How's that for realistic?

You're now using the fact that I'm being 100% honest as leverage to say everything's fine. From a theoretical armchair perspective, SURE it's fine! It's deniable! But in practice, the window is so tiny by default, that with any lag, your chances of denying a takedown you see coming A MILE AWAY are slim to none. This isn't even factoring in that some players will intentionally lag out the game to make takedowns / transitions undeniable (see RetroRocky's recent video, which Martial tweeted out).

So no, things aren't fine. You literally get punished HARD for setting up your kicks and landing them clean. In effect, this makes EVER throwing leg kicks a stupid idea against someone who knows how to abuse the existing game logic, which is NOT how real fighting works. In real life, Aldo can time guys (like Faber), snap his leg back, and be totally ready to defend a takedown. He's not just a sitting duck waiting to get dumped into side control for daring to throw a leg kick.

If the kick land clean the opponent should lose balance, but if you shot the takedown in the moment the kick land, you should be able to at least hold the leg, as I said before, let’s hope we can get new animations and scrambling situations and everything will fit better

Yes! I agree, the timing should matter. A landed leg kick SHOULD throw the opponent off balance. They should not be able to just stand there like nothing happened, like a terminator, and get a free takedown. Most high level players won't even bother to try to time the "as designed" undeniable takedown during the leg kick. They'll just eat the kick on purpose and get a power double into side control. It's far, FAR easier to execute. They get the entire kick recovery window to shoot and get a nearly unstoppable power double slam into side control or mount.

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Does he? The only guys who beat him by grappling were Khabib and Kevin Lee. Barboza's weakness has been pressure fighters who don't let him stay still and throw kicks which you can already do.

Funnily enough somewhere in this clip Conor talked about how it's a myth that you don't kick wrestlers.



Then why not go all in and make it so you have to pre-deny any Khabib takedown because that's how it works in real life? Realism alone is not a sufficient argument when it's clear as day UFC 4 will not be a hardcore simulator.

Because go all in isn’t a good strategy at all...there are circumstances in a fight and this old but is true:styles make fights

[ZombieRommel]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Does he? The only guys who beat him by grappling were Khabib and Kevin Lee. Barboza's weakness has been pressure fighters who don't let him stay still and throw kicks which you can already do.

Funnily enough somewhere in this clip Conor talked about how it's a myth that you don't kick wrestlers.



Then why not go all in and make it so you have to pre-deny any Khabib takedown because that's how it works in real life? Realism alone is not a sufficient argument when it's clear as day UFC 4 will not be a hardcore simulator.

"If you get taken down by Khabib, your GA shoots to -100 no matter what you do. It doesn't matter if you deny his transitions and punch him clean multiple times while he sits there. You will keep -100 GA because he is Khabib and you are not."

"If Ronda Rousey applies an armbar, you automatically lose. She is Ronda Rousey and people don't escape her armbars. There are no gates. You lose."

"If Francis NGannou lands an uppercut, an instant KO will occur. It doesn't matter if you land 100 strikes on him and he lands 0. If it's 4:59 of Round 5 and NGannou lands one uppercut while you stand still, you instantly go into a coma."

We can have a lot of fun with new and impressive ways to "enhance" the game by making it more realistic.

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

"If you get taken down by Khabib, your GA shoots to -100 no matter what you do. It doesn't matter if you deny his transitions and punch him clean multiple times while he sits there. You will keep -100 GA because he is Khabib and you are not."

"If Ronda Rousey applies an armbar, you automatically lose. She is Ronda Rousey and people don't escape her armbars. There are no gates. You lose."

"If Francis NGannou lands an uppercut, an instant KO will occur. It doesn't matter if you land 100 strikes on him and he lands 0. If it's 4:59 of Round 5 and NGannou lands one uppercut while you stand still, you instantly go into a coma."

We can have a lot of fun with new and impressive ways to "enhance" the game by making it more realistic.

Rhonda is a fact, nobody scapes her armbar.

Iaquinta and even McGregor could stand up against khabib, isn’t easy but it’s possible.

Ngannou... he gás would also drain faster than the others.

Ps. Jacare already has impossible to scape submissions kkkk

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

The thing is, in the game, it doesn't matter if you set them up perfectly. That's my whole point. You can waffle the guy with an entire clean 4-piece combo and end it with a leg kick. He eats the leg kick and gets a free power double into side control.

It's super whack. You and I are usually on the same page, so I'm surprised you're okay with this when there are already ways to time takedowns against kicks

Okay I missed this part of your post

I dont think it should be possible if you hit them with other strikes first.

But naked leg kick against someone standing still? Fair game



Cant get the gif to load

https://gfycat.com/boldsickfieldspaniel

Aldo has THE best TD defense in MMA history. He stopped throwing leg kicks despite landing them because of the threat of the TD.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

And both times Conor fought a wrestler he was taken down repeatedly lol.

And how many times did he get taken down after landing a kick?

Because go all in isn’t a good strategy at all...there are circumstances in a fight and this old but is true:styles make fights

Rhonda is a fact, nobody scapes her armbar.

Iaquinta and even McGregor could stand up against khabib, isn’t easy but it’s possible.

Ngannou... he gás would also drain faster than the others.

Ps. Jacare already has impossible to scape submissions kkkk

It seems like there is a language barrier issue here.

1. You play vs Francis Ngannou player.
2. He lands one uppercut.
3. You lose.

Does that sound like fun to you? If so, please try to record a full round where you do not get hit once.

edit: When I said all in, I didn't mean brawl with Khabib. What I meant was that if Khabib can get free TD after every leg kick because it's "realistic" then why not make it so Khabib gets any TD he wants because that's realistic too.

@Philly

I don't think your link is what Rommel is talking about. In your clip Edgar is already grabbing Aldo's ankle as he hits him which means Edgar timed it well. I believe Rommel is talking about instances like this. Imagine if Hominick ate that and then blasted Aldo with a double leg.

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

And how many times did he get taken down after landing a kick?



It seems like there is a language barrier issue here.

1. You play vs Francis Ngannou player.
2. He lands one uppercut.
3. You lose.

Does that sound like fun to you? If so, please try to record a full round where you do not get hit once.

edit: When I said all in, I didn't mean brawl with Khabib. What I meant was that if Khabib can get free TD after every leg kick because it's "realistic" then why not make it so Khabib gets any TD he wants because that's realistic too.

@Philly

I don't think your link is what Rommel is talking about. In your clip Edgar is already grabbing Aldo's ankle as he hits him which means Edgar timed it well. I believe Rommel is talking about instances like this. Imagine if Hominick ate that and then blasted Aldo with a double leg.

1 Francis doesn’t hit me in the first 2 min of the fight
2 he gasses heavilly
3 he lose his power same as he lost to Miocic

About khabib.
He should be one of the best wrestlers in the game, should be hard to deal with his grappling pressure, but gameplan plays a huge factor in a realistic mma game, so should be easy to kick some mindless mechanic expert bums

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

1 Francis doesn’t hit me in the first 2 min of the fight
2 he gasses heavilly
3 he lose his power same as he lost to Miocic

Like I said, try to actually do this without getting hit once. Both consoles let you record and upload matches.

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Okay I missed this part of your post

I dont think it should be possible if you hit them with other strikes first.

But naked leg kick against someone standing still? Fair game



Cant get the gif to load

https://gfycat.com/boldsickfieldspaniel

Aldo has THE best TD defense in MMA history. He stopped throwing leg kicks despite landing them because of the threat of the TD.

https://gfycat.com/boldsickfieldspaniel

This gif is a perfect example of why I like the the oeg kick vs takedown logic in game right now.

Landing a leg kick or not, its still dangerous to throw vs. A grappler.

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Like I said, try to actually do this without getting hit once. Both consoles let you record and upload matches.

I play with full damage slider in hw career mode, literally nganno can KO me in one punch and is super fun, because I can do this with a perfect timed shot too

[TheRizzzle]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Like I said, try to actually do this without getting hit once. Both consoles let you record and upload matches.

It shouldn't happen everytime. But it should be possible and in Ngannou's case, given his track record, somewhat likely.

They could make it a perk. Like a big puncher inside 1 round perk. You've got first round Ngannou, Belfort and Penn just waiting to have super human abilities for one round and the fall off a cliff the rest of the fight. Rumble also.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[ZombieRommel]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

https://gfycat.com/boldsickfieldspaniel

This gif is a perfect example of why I like the the oeg kick vs takedown logic in game right now.

Landing a leg kick or not, its still dangerous to throw vs. A grappler.

To be fair, that gif looks a lot more like GPD's undeniable takedown "timed shot" logic than what a lot of people are doing, though, which is waiting for the leg to retract back to a standing position (but still unable to predeny) and then shooting in for power doubles.


The undeniable TD for reference:


<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/ybS2TjM9gv2VFhEG6F" class="giphy-embed" allowfullscreen="" width="480" height="373" frameborder="0"></iframe>via GIPHY


Would love to see people actually use this instead of willfully eating the kick and then diving in.

@Philly

I don't think your link is what Rommel is talking about. In your clip Edgar is already grabbing Aldo's ankle as he hits him which means Edgar timed it well. I believe Rommel is talking about instances like this. Imagine if Hominick ate that and then blasted Aldo with a double leg.

Exactly. What Edgar is doing in that clip is what GPD specifically designed to be a free takedown, which is fine.

That clip of Hominick is exactly what I'm talking about. I'll try to find an in-game clip once I'm home to provide a reference.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

And how many times did he get taken down after landing a kick?



It seems like there is a language barrier issue here.

1. You play vs Francis Ngannou player.
2. He lands one uppercut.
3. You lose.

Does that sound like fun to you? If so, please try to record a full round where you do not get hit once.

edit: When I said all in, I didn't mean brawl with Khabib. What I meant was that if Khabib can get free TD after every leg kick because it's "realistic" then why not make it so Khabib gets any TD he wants because that's realistic too.

@Philly

I don't think your link is what Rommel is talking about. In your clip Edgar is already grabbing Aldo's ankle as he hits him which means Edgar timed it well. I believe Rommel is talking about instances like this. Imagine if Hominick ate that and then blasted Aldo with a double leg.

Simply not true he’s had tons of them stuffed by gleison tebau micheal Johnson and al. They possessed the skill to do so. He’s had a lot of them stuffed. Ngannous fights he’s won never make it out of the first round. What’s so different from that and higher altitude perk. Yes it would be fun because it’s realistic. We do not possess the footwork mechanics for not getting hit once to be a possibility. The skill comes from your own fight iq. I think Mortal Kombat is a game more suited to your taste

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

To be fair, that gif looks a lot more like GPD's undeniable takedown "timed shot" logic than what a lot of people are doing, though, which is waiting for the leg to retract back to a standing position (but still unable to predeny) and then shooting in for power doubles.


The undeniable TD for reference:


<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/ybS2TjM9gv2VFhEG6F" class="giphy-embed" allowfullscreen="" width="480" height="373" frameborder="0"></iframe>via GIPHY


Would love to see people actually use this instead of willfully eating the kick and then diving in.





Exactly. What Edgar is doing in that clip is what GPD specifically designed to be a free takedown, which is fine.

That clip of Hominick is exactly what I'm talking about. I'll try to find an in-game clip once I'm home to provide a reference.

It's REALLY HARD to hit unless somebody is spamming forward moving overhands or leg kicks. This doesn't work for stationary leg kicks or overhands.

If the timing were a little less strict, and it worked on stationary leg kicks, that could work.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

It's REALLY HARD to hit unless somebody is spamming forward moving overhands or leg kicks. This doesn't work for stationary leg kicks or overhands.

If the timing were a little less strict, and it worked on stationary leg kicks, that could work.

The undeniable takedown is much easier to hit if you duck first. This requires complete confidence that they’re going to leg kick. If you duck you’ll get it 8/10 times.