Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

[bmlimo]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

I really like retracted monkey idea, I would sugest just more damage in single timed strike as in this method every single strikes would count, also zhunter idea to certain strikes cause more damage on block are valid like head kicks and overhand, but also should increase their temporary stamina drain.

Ps. Retracted, if they put your suggestion they need to fix knee/elbow and knee/spinning backfist/elbow first.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

Lets assume that Front vs side block is out of the question. Considering we have already campaigned for this at one point and didnt get it

Fair enough

Then I’m onboard with your suggestions but i’d hope the head movement,lunges are buffed and parries brought back like I mentioned.

I like Retracted’s ideas as well but only if the stamina tax is less severe than what you suggested.

Goal imo should be to make footwork/headmovement just as viable as primary forms of defense along with blocking/parrying secondary. But all of it depending on rating of course.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

@ZHunter

Do you have anything in mind regarding a weight class or better yet, fighter differentiation in terms of striking styles, i.e. block breaking vs single shot dependency? Or could what you guys suggested up until now potentially solve that when combined with stats? I'd just love to not have to block break with a Woodley like I'm Max Holloway.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

30%?! Holy Smokes, Batman!

[Haz____]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

Different types of blocks for different fighters ala Fight Night, would be an interesting concept to explore.

A traditional guard

A bull guard

A long guard

A hands downs guard

An "MMA philly shell"

Different fighters use different blocking techniques, and defensive styles IRL. This would also add to fighter individuality, and would be a way to employ different playstyles.


This was a great aspect to Fight Night that made different playstyles feel truly different, and made different fighters truly feel unique.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

30%?! Holy Smokes, Batman!

Not a fan even if the block became a lot weaker?

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

Not a fan even if the block became a lot weaker?

I just think 30% is a lot.

But please do carry on with the discussion, guys. I'm enjoying it.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

No one think any of my suggestions on page 2 are worth it?

[bmlimo]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

I think another large part of why blocking works how it works is to do with accuracy of punches. Lowering the accuracy and lowering the overall block strength would be a good way to balance this. A few ideas on how to do this:

Lower the range of moving strikes

IRL most people do not throw strikes while moving an awful lot. Limiting the distance normal moving strikes cover could help people adjust to proper range while fighting and cause a lot more shots to miss by a fraction.

Change the command off lunging strikes

Changing the command from a flick, which is unreliable, to something else will make people consciously use these strikes more often creating a dynamic where peolple would choose to mix up stationary, moving and lunging strikes more often. Not a necessary change.

Decrease accuracy of moving strikes

Increase the chances of strike moving slighly off from the selected target and for it to land just off centre.

Add better hit detection for shots to hit shoulders, chests and gloves

Allow shots to hit these areas more often lowers the percantage of people getting hit in a realistic manner. Allowing more areas to be hit would encourage the offensive fighter to be more accurate.

Change small lunges command from stick flick to something more reliable

Increases the chances of these being used more, also make the animation slightly more pronounced to encourage use as well as to confirm their use.

Add a greater benefit to using stationary strikes

By making these strikes far more accurate and somewhat faster will encourage people to use them more, this decreases chance of peopme getting hit as they arent covering as much distance, but will be more used due to the reasons given.

Add a parry system

Give a new tool that can be used to defence against combos and block breaking, encourages mix ups and more creative combos. To balance this add a harsh vulnerability spike when you parry the incorrect strike or mis time it, making parrying skill based and adding more power to the offensive fighter. Requires greater discussion but a much needed addition.

Add arm health decrease
Arm health should decrease over time making blocking less viable. The more you use block the less blocking health you will have in the long run. This is a very realsitic change as fighters deliberately throw high kicks to damage fighters fore arms, which lowers power, speed and there ability to block over time.

Another way this could be implemented is if you are constantly getting swarmed and the only defence you are putting up is a high block. Over reliance on your block on multiple occasions in a small time frame should have a greater effect on your block strength and weaken it.

Add RT+RB lateral movement
Angling off is essential to not getting hit, currently we can only move back to not get hit, with the RT+RB movement. Different discussion but should be mentioned as it is another alternative to blocking.

Add more vulnerabilty for blocking wrong

Blocking wrong should create a vulnerbailty spike, or at least a greater one. This decreases people from blocking as they would more likely use the other defensive tools. By blocking wrong I am talking about high and low block.

Greatly reduce the stamina cost of using special movement

Actively encourage people to move more, this would be balanced by giving higher vulnerbailty as well as consistent use be given a long term stamina tax, would have to be worked on a × system rather than active decrease. Already mentioned.

Add far more power to well timed single strikes

To balance all of these defensive measures increasing single strike power so when someone gets caught, they really get caught.

Add more health events

Adding more health events which all affect your fighter in different ways. Would got against the current rock state which is a major issue and would make it easier to finish opponents.

Some may be slightly off topic but I feel like they still need a mention as they may affect this discussion.

I really liked all yours suggestion, by more vulnerability on blocking wrong u mean, block high and receive a body strike? Make sense...

Also more health event u mean different animations by level of rock right?
-about block again, What you guys think about reduce combo extra input speed in favor to reduce the block strength?

[1212headkick]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

Let’s make this simple and save the discussion. If you don’t make body shots better your just allowing people to hold high block

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

Let’s make this simple and save the discussion. If you don’t make body shots better your just allowing people to hold high block

That could make the number of body shots thrown greater than those thrown in real life, which isn't realistic. I think there's a lot more too this than just body shots.

[1212headkick]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

That could make the number of body shots thrown greater than those thrown in real life, which isn't realistic. I think there's a lot more too this than just body shots.

Not at all. Right now theres nowhere near as many as irl. It also makes it so kids can turtle high block way more than they should and knees replacing the utility of body hooks. Buff body shots if you want to do away with turtles block breaking and increase accuracy

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

Not at all. Right now theres nowhere near as many as irl. It also makes it so kids can turtle high block way more than they should and knees replacing the utility of body hooks. Buff body shots if you want to do away with turtles block breaking and increase accuracy

There is far more than there is irl, there is far more strikers in general but in terms of percentage there is far more on this game. Fighters in real life jusy don't utilise them enough.

I want a complete revamp of blocking and I want less accuracy across the board.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

Not at all. Right now theres nowhere near as many as irl. It also makes it so kids can turtle high block way more than they should and knees replacing the utility of body hooks. Buff body shots if you want to do away with turtles block breaking and increase accuracy

?

Body strikes are underutilized in real life

Why not make it so that block in general is weaker instead of buffing body strikes?

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Block suggestions and rebalancing discussion

Preface: This post is something Ive decided to make myself and have had zero discussion with the devs on blocking logic in relation to the future of the series. The plan is to forward feedback of potential block ideas that pop up here as a result of discussion.

That said, the block logic/strength is an interesting topic to me because it shapes the meta in relation to offense/defense, rocked states, and the overall balance of strike output.

Example 1: Block remains the same, stamina tax on all strikes is elevated.

Potential results:
Result 1 - Head and body mix ups become more relevant to the meta. Where body strikes are thrown at a very disproportionate rate when compared to actual fights, due to block breaking not being worth the tax.

Result 2 - Offense is stifled, making it relatively easy to survive an onslaught and gas your opponent by simply holding the block button, and ocassionally swaying or dashing away.

Example 2: Block keeps the same logic but is made weaker(chips away with less strikes), stamina goes unchanged.

Result 1: Blocking is no longer the most viable form of defense. Forcing the defender to take more risks or get overwhelmed. This would lower strike output but buff aggression.


Proposals

- Increase stamina tax on all landed strikes by 30%(Clean and on block)

- Weaken block by one strike except when moving directly backwards (1-2-3, the lead hook would hit clean)

- Allow blocking while swaying(Increased stamina tax on head movement while blocking, if you sway into a strike, you eat the full damage of that strike, minus the vulnerability)

- Block reset after successful lunge, slip or sway.(Martials Idea)

- Higher permanant block damage on bigger strikes such as headkicks, flying knee's, overhands..etc(Laurieds idea)

- Allow slipping and circling to the OUTSIDE of a strike to follow the same logic that lunging away from a forward moving combo. Meaning that you could circle a stationary combo by slipping to the outside and moving in that direction.

- Get rid of constant stamina tax on retreating block and instead add a flat tax like a lunge, add vulnerability to the body and legs during the retreating block.

- Slightly buff the damage(Not block damage) on the first two strikes in a forward moving combo.

Agree, disagree? What are your suggestions?

Discuss.

How much does this change if a front and side block is implemented?