AI aggression is unreal

[sdpdude9]

This is probably my biggest peeve with the AI. Almost all of them are extremely aggressive, often throwing 70+ strikes in the first round and eventually totally gassing by the end of 3. I’m playing on pro and try to be conservative but they are nonstop forward pressure throwing constantly.

Just played against Jim Miller and he threw over 50 strikes every round and attempted 26 takedowns! The fight is on accelerated so the rounds are only 3 minutes long. So he threw a strike on average every 3-4 seconds and attempted a takedown on average roughly every 20-21 seconds real time.

I hope this is toned down the next game. I just want the majority of the ai to pick their shots instead of just throwing constantly. The AI on hard is much better about this but they’re too easy and I can’t find a good balance. I feel like I’m always having to play matador and can rarely pressure because the AI won’t back up or lands perfect counters. Even if I rock or knock them down numerous times they still don’t adopt a conservative approach.

Anybody have any way to mitigate this through sliders or otherwise?

[Evil97]

Re: AI aggression is unreal

Weird, I've experienced the exact opposite. AI always runs and ends up with their back against the cage. I was curious, so I fought Jim Miller on Pro, and he rarely made any forward movement except when he shot for a take down or clinch. Ended up with his back against the cage like all the others.

Pretty sure if you walk forward, they will walk backwards and vice versa.

[sdpdude9]

Re: AI aggression is unreal

Weird, I've experienced the exact opposite. AI always runs and ends up with their back against the cage. I was curious, so I fought Jim Miller on Pro, and he rarely made any forward movement except when he shot for a take down or clinch. Ended up with his back against the cage like all the others.

Pretty sure if you walk forward, they will walk backwards and vice versa.

Very curious, I’m not experiencing that at all and majority of the fights play out similar to what I described. They actually seem to completely stop just past the center of the octagon if they back up and be unwilling to back up any more, just standing there. If I get close they immediately start firing combinations or block. Will not back up anymore to disengage or avoid the strikes.

[sdpdude9]

Re: AI aggression is unreal

https://youtu.be/lPBS-hHXaiw

First video I was ultra non aggressive. He threw 53 strikes and attempted 13 takedowns.

https://youtu.be/JKeDtZowIsw

Second video I played more like normal. He throws 70 strikes and attempts 7 takedowns. He does back up some but is all too willing to engage if I approach him, doesn’t look to be defensive. He explodes forward aggressively.

https://youtu.be/Fr9KQ70YoyM

Third video I try to play more aggressively. He backs up some but explodes back and presses forward aggressively. He throws 80 strikes and attempts 8 takedowns.

This is common in a lot of my fights, not just Jim Miller, but since it was the example I used initially I used him again. His instinct is rarely to disengage and if I pressure him he immediately throws shots, rarely uses evasive or defensive maneuvers. He is throwing way too many strikes and attempting way too many takedowns for my liking.

This would be a wild pace, the AI rarely goes for a measured approach. Let’s take the recent Diaz/Pettis bout. That fight had a pretty average pace, but they only threw more than Miller (in any of the examples) in one round, and that’s actually over 5 minutes, not 3 like it is in accelerated clock. Basically the ai is throwing at a fairly high pace for 5 minutes, but it’s condensed into 3 and makes it seem like they just don’t stop leading to a very aggressive feel. On accelerated, they should lower to strike attempts to mimic an actual fight pace. Throwing 5 minutes worth of strikes into 3 minutes real time makes it feel as though the ai is very aggressive and way too willing to engage.

This type of pace also makes it difficult to play with a measured, pick your shots type of style because they’re throwing shots constantly and frequently Outland you just by attempting constantly, you can only match if you play aggressively too.

Edit: Would also like to add ai’s defense is insane on pro. Perfectly predict strikes, particularly body shots 9/10 landing a perfectly timed uppercut. Switching block from high to low perfectly even when throwing a quick combo and then landing a perfect hook as soon as you’re done. Getting a block up instantly after throwing a combo shutting down your chance for a counter. It feels like they button read badly and react way too quickly and perfectly. Makes it very hard to pressure them because they counter perfectly 9/10. Rarely bite on feints and will always counter instead of disengaging or avoid strikes.

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: AI aggression is unreal

The AI is broken and if you step in and out of boxing range they will usually whiff their strikes and gas out

Its almost a rule of mine that im not allowed to do that or to to the ground against thrm

[Evil97]

Re: AI aggression is unreal

The AI is almost completely reaction based and can be manipulated everywhere. You could get Miller to slow down the aggression by literally putting your controller down. I should test it, but I bet there is a chance you can go to a decision without playing.
I just tried the fight again, and I have to chase Miller around the octagon like a scared mouse.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

[sdpdude9]

Re: AI aggression is unreal

The AI is broken and if you step in and out of boxing range they will usually whiff their strikes and gas out

Its almost a rule of mine that im not allowed to do that or to to the ground against thrm

They need to react differently, use evasive maneuvers and disengage. This is a big part of the problem, they are far too willing to engage the moment you’re in range. They need to utilize more defensive options.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: AI aggression is unreal

They need to react differently, use evasive maneuvers and disengage. This is a big part of the problem, they are far too willing to engage the moment you’re in range. They need to utilize more defensive options.

Please keep this talk going, fellas. It's a very important topic regarding the AI.

I do think it is a bit dangerous to have the AI rely a lot on defense from close range. I think that tends to breed unrealistic behavior. It worked largely like this in UFC 2. The first layer of defense should usually be interception, especially from close range. That's the more human-like behavior either for real fights or human players playing the game.

If the AI is made to intercept less, than in order to remain challenging its defense must be made even better than now. And that doesn't feel good at all.

The ease of baiting the AI to throw when you can easily back away from the strike is certainly a problem. But the AI throwing your're truly getting in is mostly a good thing, imo.

If you wan to experience a less aggressive, you can simply stay away against some fighters, or strike them effectively, which can make them back out. But if this is not working and the AI is still seeming too aggressive, I'd certainly like to hear about the details of it.

So, please keep the good talk going.

[sdpdude9]

Re: AI aggression is unreal

Please keep this talk going, fellas. It's a very important topic regarding the AI.

I do think it is a bit dangerous to have the AI rely a lot on defense from close range. I think that tends to breed unrealistic behavior. It worked largely like this in UFC 2. The first layer of defense should usually be interception, especially from close range. That's the more human-like behavior either for real fights or human players playing the game.

If the AI is made to intercept less, than in order to remain challenging its defense must be made even better than now. And that doesn't feel good at all.

The ease of baiting the AI to throw when you can easily back away from the strike is certainly a problem. But the AI throwing your're truly getting in is mostly a good thing, imo.

If you wan to experience a less aggressive, you can simply stay away against some fighters, or strike them effectively, which can make them back out. But if this is not working and the AI is still seeming too aggressive, I'd certainly like to hear about the details of it.

So, please keep the good talk going.

I’m not necessarily advocating the ai being totally defensive every time. Just to utilize defensive techniques more often, not always look to engage when pressured. They especially should be more cautious if they’re continually getting caught or have rocked numerous times.

Perhaps it would be useful to have each AI kind of have a priority list when their opponent comes in range. Certain fighters favor different techniques in this situation. These “techniques” could be..

1. Brawl, throw as soon as the opponent is close.
2. Counter, look to throw a counter based on what the opponent does.
3. Footwork evasion, disengage and try to engage on their own terms.
4. Head movement evasion, utilize head movements to avoid shots while not giving up ground.
5. Kicking distance, utilize kicks and movement to keep opponent at a kicking range.
6. Tie up, look to takedown opponent or clinch.
8. Jab, utilize the jab to stop the forward momentum and maintain some distance.
9. Block. Just block punches and check leg kicks.

Each fighter prioritizes what they do more often, however still uses all techniques to some degree. For example, Stephen Thompson would prioritize footwork evasion, maintain kicking distance, and counters while rarely using tie up, brawl, or blocks. Mike Perry would use Brawl and block, with low priority on footwork, head movement, and maintaining distance. I don’t know how difficult this would be to implement but it would be very helpful I think.

I think the ai also seems very aggressive because the emphasis this game has on combos. They look for 4-5 piece combos often instead of looking for one good shot or a short combination, both of which are more common in MMA. They also pick counters a little too perfectly and it makes it a nightmare to pressure them, because they’ll just stand their ground and land perfect counters, even when rocked.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: AI aggression is unreal

I’m not necessarily advocating the ai being totally defensive every time. Just to utilize defensive techniques more often, not always look to engage when pressured. They especially should be more cautious if they’re continually getting caught or have rocked numerous times.

Perhaps it would be useful to have each AI kind of have a priority list when their opponent comes in range. Certain fighters favor different techniques in this situation. These “techniques” could be..

1. Brawl, throw as soon as the opponent is close.
2. Counter, look to throw a counter based on what the opponent does.
3. Footwork evasion, disengage and try to engage on their own terms.
4. Head movement evasion, utilize head movements to avoid shots while not giving up ground.
5. Kicking distance, utilize kicks and movement to keep opponent at a kicking range.
6. Tie up, look to takedown opponent or clinch.
8. Jab, utilize the jab to stop the forward momentum and maintain some distance.
9. Block. Just block punches and check leg kicks.

Each fighter prioritizes what they do more often, however still uses all techniques to some degree. For example, Stephen Thompson would prioritize footwork evasion, maintain kicking distance, and counters while rarely using tie up, brawl, or blocks. Mike Perry would use Brawl and block, with low priority on footwork, head movement, and maintaining distance. I don’t know how difficult this would be to implement but it would be very helpful I think.

I think the ai also seems very aggressive because the emphasis this game has on combos. They look for 4-5 piece combos often instead of looking for one good shot or a short combination, both of which are more common in MMA. They also pick counters a little too perfectly and it makes it a nightmare to pressure them, because they’ll just stand their ground and land perfect counters, even when rocked.

All these things are already in, including the differences per fighter. Even the taste for combos was reduced at some point, in UFC 3.

However, if you're not noticing them, then it might be a sign that the tendencies aren't pronounced enough. So that's good feedback. It's good to know.

[Good Grappler]

Re: AI aggression is unreal

The AI is almost completely reaction based and can be manipulated everywhere.

This and other things are why I cannot enjoy playing against the CPU.

The AI only makes mistakes when it wants to. It’s capable of playing perfectly, so it’s like any time you score a takedown or escape a submission is because the AI messed up on purpose. Idk, just can’t get into that.

MMA is about solving puzzles, creating traps, finding your opponents weaknesses. These things are only fun against a human opponent. It’s much more rewarding to score a takedown against a human opponent, knowing it’s because I actually tricked them with my feints and timing ... as opposed to against a computer, which purposely let you score to create a more “enjoyable experience”.

It’s like playing chess against the computer vs against a real person. The computer only blunders a piece or makes a stupid mistake when it wants to. It was well aware of the trap you were setting, but purposely ignored it to try and emulate a human opponent. Whereas when a human opponent blunders a piece early, it’s because the trap you set actually fooled them. It’s just a much more rewarding experience.

There’s some games that just have to be played against a human opponent to be enjoyable, MMA games and chess are two examples.