Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fight?

[sdpdude9]

I think the health bar system needed to be reworked. I find it nearly impossible to KO a fighter early because the bar is too big and they can survive getting rocked but on the flip side, if a fight goes into championship rounds, it seems like nearly everything causes a rock because the bar is so depleted. I’m referring to offline play, it may not be as prominent online.

Anybody else experience this? And does anybody else have a good idea how this could be reworked?

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

I think the health bar system needed to be reworked. I find it nearly impossible to KO a fighter early because the bar is too big and they can survive getting rocked but on the flip side, if a fight goes into championship rounds, it seems like nearly everything causes a rock because the bar is so depleted. I’m referring to offline play, it may not be as prominent online.

Anybody else experience this? And does anybody else have a good idea how this could be reworked?

This is exactly what my usual experience is.

[manliest_Man]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

I think the health bar system needed to be reworked. I find it nearly impossible to KO a fighter early because the bar is too big and they can survive getting rocked but on the flip side, if a fight goes into championship rounds, it seems like nearly everything causes a rock because the bar is so depleted. I’m referring to offline play, it may not be as prominent online.

Anybody else experience this? And does anybody else have a good idea how this could be reworked?

That's a proper observation, coming from someone who plays exclusively online.

The game isn't focused on reproducing a realistic experience. (It does on some aspects, but not on most.)

It has hidden/under the hood mechanics and gamey stuff, like dropped inputs, slow and pathetic punches, unless they are part of a combo and invisible walls, like trying to throw a moving forward body hook, makes your fighter skate and stand still.

Same thing goes on your strikes being linked/depended on your opponent's movement(Same exact kick/punch will come out slower or faster depending on your opponent's position) and especially when it comes to kicks, it completely changes their target(from head-> automatic body kicks/body knees, when there is clearly space to land some kicks to the head.)

[sdpdude9]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

Currently there is a health bar that is essentially the accumulation bar that dwindles over time. This bar needs to dwindle less severely, only getting down as low as it gets now if a fighter is getting beat up badly. This accumulation bar should dwindle from strikes absorbed, times rocked, and stamina used.

The per strike health bar needs to be entirely separated. This should be calculated based on chin rating and damage inflicted by a strike. This health bar should always be the same. This would mean a perfect strike at the perfect time should be able to KO at any time. Combinations shouldn’t be a necessity to deplete this bar, as it is now. Each strike should be calculated individually and if one is above the chin threshold, it should initiate a rock or KO depending on how above the threshold it is.

The system we have now is close, but needs fine tuning. Make the overall health bar dwindle less severely allowing for longer matches and separate the per strike health bar and put less emphasis on combinations and more emphasis on strike timing.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

Honestly I see both fairly often

You’re not getting early KOs typically for 2 reasons

1) You’re not catching people with heavy strikea during peak vulnerability

2) You’re not wearing down the block after you rock someone

If you master either if these you’ll see more early finishes.

For fights to last it just depends how safe you’re fighting. If you know how to avoid being vulnerable there shouldnt be too much of an issue lasting 5 rounds. The cpu is usually better at counting than it is at pressure /cage cutting.

[sdpdude9]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

Honestly I see both fairly often

You’re not getting early KOs typically for 2 reasons

1) You’re not catching people with heavy strikea during peak vulnerability

2) You’re not wearing down the block after you rock someone

If you master either if these you’ll see more early finishes.

For fights to last it just depends how safe you’re fighting. If you know how to avoid being vulnerable there shouldnt be too much of an issue lasting 5 rounds. The cpu is usually better at counting than it is at pressure /cage cutting.

I’ll catch guys and they go into a rocked state early on frequently but it’s difficult to finish them. The block break is part of the problem, you have to throw many strikes quickly because it regenerates quickly and the opponent (especially the ai) will land a counter once and that’s enough to survive. Or if they get dropped, they catch strikes too well to get off enough ground and pound to finish. Often times it takes 5+ rocks to finally get them out of there.

Can you (or anybody) show me a video of you getting a quick KO or going through a full 5 rounds (without holding back) against the ai on a higher difficult setting? Maybe seeing somebody else would help me see what the issue is.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

I’ll catch guys and they go into a rocked state early on frequently but it’s difficult to finish them. The block break is part of the problem, you have to throw many strikes quickly because it regenerates quickly and the opponent (especially the ai) will land a counter once and that’s enough to survive. Or if they get dropped, they catch strikes too well to get off enough ground and pound to finish. Often times it takes 5+ rocks to finally get them out of there.

Can you (or anybody) show me a video of you getting a quick KO or going through a full 5 rounds (without holding back) against the ai on a higher difficult setting? Maybe seeing somebody else would help me see what the issue is.

I’d be willing to give it a shot

Any particular matchups?

And is this 100% standup or is everything allowed?

[Reinfarcements]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

There is a way to remedy this, it has been done multiple times in the past.

But seeing how this ancient practice has been cast out by the people, there is no point in suggesting its return.

[Haz____]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

The problem is simple.

The games mechanics are entirely built around volume and pressure.

You can't play realisticly and have an authentic experience.

In order to finish someone the game wants you to memorize "block breaker combos". So when an opponent is rocked you can cycle through canned block breakers to wear through their block and land the big strike.

A simple example is the infamous 1-2 1-2 Headkick.

Basically you aren't actually supposed to play organically. You are actually supposed to just memorize a few block breakers and spam them when you hurt your opppnent.

If you try to just fight smart and organically that's how you end up with 10 rocks a fight.


Good luck trying to convince anyone this current system makes for bad gameplay though. It seems like the competetive crowd just says ~"Get good and learn the game", despite the fact the mechanics are lame as hell as is.

[sdpdude9]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

I’d be willing to give it a shot

Any particular matchups?

And is this 100% standup or is everything allowed?

Mostly stand up, no particular fighters, but maybe some that tend to engage more often. Thanks!

[sdpdude9]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

The problem is simple.

The games mechanics are entirely built around volume and pressure.

You can't play realisticly and have an authentic experience.

In order to finish someone the game wants you to memorize "block breaker combos". So when an opponent is rocked you can cycle through canned block breaker combos to wear through their block ans land the big strike.

A simple example is the infamous 1-2 1-2 Headkick.

Basically you aren't actually supposed to play organically. You are actually supposed to just memorize a few block breakers and spam them when you hurt your opppnent.

If you try to just fight smart and organically that's how you end up with 10 rocks a fight.


Good luck trying to convince anyone this current system makes for bad gameplay though. It seems like thr competetove crowd just says ~"Get good and learn the game", despite the fact the mechanics are lame as hell as is.

You nailed it. It just doesn’t feel real, too much “game-y” stuff. If you hurt somebody, it should feel like a real threat.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

Man, hurting your opponent is the biggest deal in any combat sport. All importance of such an event is stripped away and killed to death in the game. Just like FIFA, actually. You get tennis results because that's what the masses want. You get from one goal to the other in 4 seconds and every attack ends in a clear goalscoring opportunity. It's the same thing here: rock, they get up and walk forward, repeat 10 times.

I'd love it so much if there was that stunned, deer in headlights feel when you get dropped and all your faculties aren't working very well, some temporarily, some for quite a while (dynamic stats) and you have to do something to survive while being at a disadvantage.

And there's just so many other things, style-wise, gamelplan-wise. How many times do we see that the early rounds are key for so many fights and their outcomes? Conor McGregor - has to get you out of there in two or he's done, same for Rumble, same for Ngannou, Khabib - looks to make you work early, conversely the opponent has to look to prevent that early, etc. Entire strategies revolve around being successful in the early rounds, whether attacking or defending, the results of which lay the foundations of the entire fight afterwards. I just don't really see that in the game.

I'm not saying there's no strategy at all, that's absolutely not true, what I'm saying is that often times **** gets real very fast, through either grappling or striking, and has lasting effects... or not very lasting, as people actually get KOd or TKOd. There's just so, so much variety about it and the series can only benefit from implementing as much of it as possible, of course providing the appropriate organic counter-measures. There's still so much more room for improvement through realism.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

I can understand the volume/pressure arguments (for higher weight classes especially) for online play but off line all you have to do is increase power/stamina so I don’t get it.

I’ve had plenty of fights feel realistically dangerous against the computer on the ground and on the feet.

I’ll try to post the recordings today. One with slider changes, one without.

If you learn how to catch people when they’re vulnerable (like what happens irl all the time) you’ll see better results.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

I can understand the volume/pressure arguments (for higher weight classes especially) for online play but off line all you have to do is increase power/stamina so I don’t get it.

I’ve had plenty of fights feel realistically dangerous against the computer on the ground and on the feet.

I’ll try to post the recordings today. One with slider changes, one without.

If you learn how to catch people when they’re vulnerable (like what happens irl all the time) you’ll see better results.

I didn't realise, is this exclusively an offline discussion? I'm not being sarcastic. The sliders do help offline, yeah, even though it's very simplistic as it's still easy to land shots.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Anybody else rarely get an early KO but also rarely make it through a 5 round fig

I didn't realise, is this exclusively an offline discussion? I'm not being sarcastic. The sliders do help offline, yeah, even though it's very simplistic as it's still easy to land shots.

OP was referring to offline only