Is it too easy to get rocked?

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

Is there a stat for every time a fighter gets stunned in real life?

With the exception of rocks that result in knockdowns or ones where a person is physically showing that he is affected (stumbling/equilibrium off), we dont know for sure every time a fighter is stunned. Its a guess and part of the reason why analysts consistently say "I think that punch hurt him".

In the game (through sound, the HUD and the rumble) we know every time someone is hurt.

I think drops should be more noteworthy though. I see too many fights looking like Edgar/Maynard 2.

Just my 2 cents. Now back in my hole.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

I think it's generally because people aren't good at defense. Just moving toward your opponent when they strike greatly increases the chances of being rocked. People will also keep throwing even if it's obvious they won't win the exchange, they just want to finish their combo.

Most of the rockfests are when both fighters already have very low head health. I'm sure everyone has been there, you have already suffered a lot of head damage and you're trying to hang in there but every punch rocks you at that point and you're close to being KOed.

Not to mention near the end of the fight when stamina is low, it is a lot easier to rock each other and harder to finish. If you and our opponent are constantly rocking each other in the first round with high head health, you're probably not being very defensive.

Imagine how someone will play with $50 on the line vs how someone will play in ranked vs how someone will play in quick fight. 3 different levels of personal investment in the outcome.

If you're playing like you know you'll lose money if you lose, you will seriously start figuring out ways to outland your opponent while minimizing damage.

If each ranked fight you won you got $5 and each you lost you lost $5 we would see a lot less rocks and a lot more decisions.

It can happen even when it's one-sided man. I've done everything right in real-life/sport terms, I've hit them clean, I've rocked them, I've dropped them multiple times, all that in the 1st and 2nd and they're still very much in it, let alone the ref intervening and stopping it. Like I said, I've done everything right from a realism perspective: accurate clean strikes that rock and drop, many of them. Those should end a fight. But in the game you gotta do it right from a game perspective: block break "correctly", hit them with something they lean into, play the "right" way to get results.

[1212headkick]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

Bring back the damage from the beta. If you got clipped it was over and that's how it should be. All it takes irl is one moment of being hurt to be finished. Another thing we need is doctor stoppages. Lack of this adds to to the inconsistency in rocks.

[WarMMA]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

Bring back the damage from the beta. If you got clipped it was over and that's how it should be. All it takes irl is one moment of being hurt to be finished. Another thing we need is doctor stoppages. Lack of this adds to to the inconsistency in rocks.

I wouldn't say that exactly...it shouldn't always be over once you get clipped, but the alert knockdowns, finish the fight knockdowns and ko's in general just need to happen a bit quicker than they currently do if guys are getting caught numerous times in a round. If you're getting hurt from eating big shots, instead of getting rocked so many times, you'd just be knocked down in the finish the fight state quicker. What you're saying is true yes, but that should be more so with the heavier divisions. And it should definitely be reflected the highest at HW.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

And that’s because we arent as good at defending as fighters are in real life. Also range /tracking is kinda messed up in the game.

We also don’t have very many defensive options which is the real issue. Footwork should be better and blocking is sometimes not as responsive as it could be. We need more defensive options and without all the gimmicky counter strike and freezing of opponents like we’ve had before.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

We also don’t have very many defensive options which is the real issue. Footwork should be better and blocking is sometimes not as responsive as it could be. We need more defensive options and without all the gimmicky counter strike and freezing of opponents like we’ve had before.


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I disagree with that

We have blocking, head movement, footwork, lunges , stiff arm retreat, and double legs / clinches are great for defensive purposes.

But how many people are utilizing all of the tools?

I do agree the responsiveness can be a bit of an issue especially with lunges.

[johnmangala]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

I disagree with that

We have blocking, head movement, footwork, lunges , stiff arm retreat, and double legs / clinches are great for defensive purposes.

But how many people are utilizing all of the tools?

I do agree the responsiveness can be a bit of an issue especially with lunges.

I need some advice on striking. I'll upload 2 videos of me being destroyed by superior strikers tomorrow, one in quick fight and another in ranked. I use most of the tools but I feel like my striking is not up to par either way.

Some tips on what to do would be appreciated. I have started spamming hooks and my win/loss ratio skyrocketed but when I try to play defensively I lose 7/10x.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

I don't think a lot of people utilize the tools available to them in game, and are quick to place everything on block breakers and yada yada.

I rarely see anybody utilizing the minor lunges, the major back lunges when rocked to get out of range, or conversely using side step counters, back lunge straight, block counters etc etc.

Heck, even simple circling does wonders, just ask Advaita_X.

If I fight somebody who's a scrub and has defensive holes all over the place I will generally get one to at most three rocks before finishing the fight. Sometimes I'll just break a dude down with no rocks until the final round and that first KD will be the last.

Styles also have a lot to do with things, and some people simply aren't capable of making reads and capitalizing on their opponents when the opportunity arises.

I think what gets guys rocked too soon, is that they either overcommit/rely on a specific strike or string of combinations and expect not to get hit.

I can't rely on forcing rocks which were easier then than now, and I prefer it to be that way.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

I disagree with that



We have blocking, head movement, footwork, lunges , stiff arm retreat, and double legs / clinches are great for defensive purposes.



But how many people are utilizing all of the tools?



I do agree the responsiveness can be a bit of an issue especially with lunges.

You’re dead if you use head movement for defensive purposes only, it’s not built to just be a defensive mechanic. It’s made to trigger a slower attack animation from the opponent so you can counter strike in this game, which in turn makes it too easy to rock someone. Footwork has been handicapped in 3. They took away the back step and you can’t use footwork to even avoid a body kick you see coming a mile away.

My biggest grip is, it’s easy to get rocked in this game because it’s too easy to get clean hits in this game, and a lot of it has to do with how things are animated in this game. It doesn’t matter how good you are, you’re going to throw 300 strikes in a 3 rounder at each other and you’re both going to land more than half of them most times. Animations get locked in so early within these frames for striking, you have to input every head movement action or block before they input their attack, instead of judging and basing it off real time.

FNC does not feel like this, it’s much more free flowing and aside from those same counter punch mechanics, it does not feel so heavily relied on animations just locking in to give a somewhat scripted outcome.


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[Kingslayer04]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

I don't think a lot of people utilize the tools available to them in game, and are quick to place everything on block breakers and yada yada.

I rarely see anybody utilizing the minor lunges, the major back lunges when rocked to get out of range, or conversely using side step counters, back lunge straight, block counters etc etc.

Heck, even simple circling does wonders, just ask Advaita_X.

If I fight somebody who's a scrub and has defensive holes all over the place I will generally get one to at most three rocks before finishing the fight. Sometimes I'll just break a dude down with no rocks until the final round and that first KD will be the last.

Styles also have a lot to do with things, and some people simply aren't capable of making reads and capitalizing on their opponents when the opportunity arises.

I think what gets guys rocked too soon, is that they either overcommit/rely on a specific strike or string of combinations and expect not to get hit.

I can't rely on forcing rocks which were easier then than now, and I prefer it to be that way.

See, that's exactly what I meant: "you're not playing the game correctly". And what this also is is you're not rocking guys correctly. Don't you see how ridiculous that sounds and what the issue is here?

You're thinking about the game in purely mechanical terms here, and I'm thinking about it from a realism standpoint as well and the way I see it, 8 rocks are 8 rocks (random number, could be any number really) and the fight should be stopped much earlier. It doesn't matter if it's a scrub or the best player in the world. When one gets such a big number of health events, they have succeeded in pure sporting, real life terms, and it shouldn't matter how those health events have been achieved. And what you're essentially saying is git gud in order to take advantage of what's already the biggest success a fighter can achieve in an MMA fight: hurting your opponent. Let alone hurting them a myriad of times. The game shouldn't allow this, plain and simple.

MartialMind's a top player, he has to rock people that are way below his level a bunch times, people that are closer to his level a bunch of times and quite often, he himself gets rocked a bunch of times before powering through. Most times he doesn't even care if he gets hurt because he knows it's inconsequential and that he'll get plenty of opportunities to turn things round due to his skill.

That's not how MMA works though. You can't afford to get hurt a myriad of times before learning someone's patterns and using the experience to beat them. Instead, you try not to get hurt in the first place because that one time can cost you everything. And if it doesn't, the next two will. Surely you understand what I'm saying here.

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

I don't think a lot of people utilize the tools available to them in game, and are quick to place everything on block breakers and yada yada.

I rarely see anybody utilizing the minor lunges, the major back lunges when rocked to get out of range, or conversely using side step counters, back lunge straight, block counters etc etc.

Heck, even simple circling does wonders, just ask Advaita_X.

If I fight somebody who's a scrub and has defensive holes all over the place I will generally get one to at most three rocks before finishing the fight. Sometimes I'll just break a dude down with no rocks until the final round and that first KD will be the last.

Styles also have a lot to do with things, and some people simply aren't capable of making reads and capitalizing on their opponents when the opportunity arises.

I think what gets guys rocked too soon, is that they either overcommit/rely on a specific strike or string of combinations and expect not to get hit.

I can't rely on forcing rocks which were easier then than now, and I prefer it to be that way.

This why we look up to you guys to give this info in this game .

I wish EA would hire you guys to just do a definite tutorial on these things .

For me I will try , I've heard of some of these defensive moves but I'm sure I don't know or even try to utilize the ones I know .

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[RomeroXVII]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

See, that's exactly what I meant: "you're not playing the game correctly". And what this also is is you're not rocking guys correctly. Don't you see how ridiculous that sounds and what the issue is here?

You're thinking about the game in purely mechanical terms here, and I'm thinking about it from a realism standpoint as well and the way I see it, 8 rocks are 8 rocks (random number, could be any number really) and the fight should be stopped much earlier. It doesn't matter if it's a scrub or the best player in the world. When one gets such a big number of health events, they have succeeded in pure sporting, real life terms, and it shouldn't matter how those health events have been achieved. And what you're essentially saying is git gud in order to take advantage of what's already the biggest success a fighter can achieve in an MMA fight: hurting your opponent. Let alone hurting them a myriad of times. The game shouldn't allow this, plain and simple.

MartialMind's a top player, he has to rock people that are way below his level a bunch times, people that are closer to his level a bunch of times and quite often, he himself gets rocked a bunch of times before powering through. Most times he doesn't even care if he gets hurt because he knows it's inconsequential and that he'll get plenty of opportunities to turn things round due to his skill.

That's not how MMA works though. You can't afford to get hurt a myriad of times before learning someone's patterns and using the experience to beat them. Instead, you try not to get hurt in the first place because that one time can cost you everything. And if it doesn't, the next two will. Surely you understand what I'm saying here.

Well, my post is mainly directed about how people are talking about defensively they can't do anything and they're forced to play rock em sock em robots.

You can circle and backpedal away easier than most people believe, aside from the disgustingly broken unrealistic jab feint body straight, you can avoid most strikes with the tools provided. I would have wished that they would have body kicks whiff when you utilize the back lunge to evade, but that's a gaming issue. Even I occasionally forget some of these tools are available to my use.



But yeah I agree on a lot of things that you've said.

There's a lot of things I like about the game and a lot of things I'm not a fan of, like the fact that you need about 10-20 leg kds to get a leg kick TKO, when IRL once a leg is generally wrecked to the point the fighter can barely stand, the ref will call it off.

Ideally for the next game I would hope that in order to have success, a huge part of it has to do with playing your fighter to THEIR best strengths rather than having to script a specific meta to gather more wins than usual. That being said, no meta can replace your own timing, your own recognition of somebody's pattern, and if you plan to capitalize when your opponent is hurt.

I wonder, if you were to increase the damage in the game by 2 and the Stamina tax by 2, weaken the block, have an easier way to clinch people trying to stay glued to you , would that help make things blatantly clear that, no matter what level of guy that you're fighting, you have to respect what they potentially have to offer.

[WarMMA]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

See, that's exactly what I meant: "you're not playing the game correctly". And what this also is is you're not rocking guys correctly. Don't you see how ridiculous that sounds and what the issue is here?

You're thinking about the game in purely mechanical terms here, and I'm thinking about it from a realism standpoint as well and the way I see it, 8 rocks are 8 rocks (random number, could be any number really) and the fight should be stopped much earlier. It doesn't matter if it's a scrub or the best player in the world. When one gets such a big number of health events, they have succeeded in pure sporting, real life terms, and it shouldn't matter how those health events have been achieved. And what you're essentially saying is git gud in order to take advantage of what's already the biggest success a fighter can achieve in an MMA fight: hurting your opponent. Let alone hurting them a myriad of times. The game shouldn't allow this, plain and simple.

MartialMind's a top player, he has to rock people that are way below his level a bunch times, people that are closer to his level a bunch of times and quite often, he himself gets rocked a bunch of times before powering through. Most times he doesn't even care if he gets hurt because he knows it's inconsequential and that he'll get plenty of opportunities to turn things round due to his skill.

That's not how MMA works though. You can't afford to get hurt a myriad of times before learning someone's patterns and using the experience to beat them. Instead, you try not to get hurt in the first place because that one time can cost you everything. And if it doesn't, the next two will. Surely you understand what I'm saying here.

This exactly. Sure some players could maybe defend better, but from a realism standpoint, it just doesn't make sense. You'll never see a fighter get rocked all those times before something happens. Either the ref will step in or he'll be finished. The game just allows too many rocks before something happens. Thus it results in players getting rocked a bunch of times. Like irl, DC isn't gonna eat multiple big shots from Ngannou in a round and just keep getting rocked over and over...he'd get put to sleep fast. This is an area the game just doesn't reflect well enough. When you're getting hurt all those times and especially within a round(and especially from a heavy hitter), finish the fight knockdowns and ko's should be happening way sooner than they do imo.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

Well, my post is mainly directed about how people are talking about defensively they can't do anything and they're forced to play rock em sock em robots.

You can circle and backpedal away easier than most people believe, aside from the disgustingly broken unrealistic jab feint body straight, you can avoid most strikes with the tools provided. I would have wished that they would have body kicks whiff when you utilize the back lunge to evade, but that's a gaming issue. Even I occasionally forget some of these tools are available to my use.



But yeah I agree on a lot of things that you've said.

There's a lot of things I like about the game and a lot of things I'm not a fan of, like the fact that you need about 10-20 leg kds to get a leg kick TKO, when IRL once a leg is generally wrecked to the point the fighter can barely stand, the ref will call it off.

Ideally for the next game I would hope that in order to have success, a huge part of it has to do with playing your fighter to THEIR best strengths rather than having to script a specific meta to gather more wins than usual. That being said, no meta can replace your own timing, your own recognition of somebody's pattern, and if you plan to capitalize when your opponent is hurt.

I wonder, if you were to increase the damage in the game by 2 and the Stamina tax by 2, weaken the block, have an easier way to clinch people trying to stay glued to you , would that help make things blatantly clear that, no matter what level of guy that you're fighting, you have to respect what they potentially have to offer.

I don't question anything that you've said in terms of mechanics.

The second to last paragraph in particular is spot on: the styles make fights element. Absolutely, the fighter's strengths, not a meta that works universally. That's what it's all about for me.

As for your last paragraph (the mechanical/tuning suggestions), I would add removing magnetism and auto-range adjustments to those. It should be harder to land shots. I'm not forgetting that there is a defender out there too, not just an attacker. No stamina tax on the stiff arm retreat would help too. I'm not sure about increasing stam tax and damage by 2 simply because this is again a universal fix. Some guys really do have insane cardio and I wouldn't mind it if a guy like Max didn't get tired against me. I'll have to find other weaknesses. Just like (even though I'm arguing for a bigger threat in striking) not everyone has rockets in their hands.

I've always been thinking about some sort of personalised slider/stat combination that applies and is saved directly to the given fighter. If that's too complicated, perhaps the stats could be made to scale differently in order to mean more and get the desired effect.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Is it too easy to get rocked?

I feel like all the posters here are stuck in purgatory, destined to repeat the same talking points and opinions over and over until the heat death of the universe.


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