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This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

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  • RomeroXVII
    MVP
    • May 2018
    • 1663

    #16
    Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

    Originally posted by aholbert32
    The point you are making is correct....UFC 3's striking output is unrealistic. I completely agree with that and have presented that argument to the devs in the past.

    The example you are using to support your argument doesnt work though. You are comparing an online player using Wonderboy and Wonderboy's real life stats and concluding that because the online player was able to throw more strikes than Wonderboy typically averages that means strike output is bad.

    The problem with that analysis is that Wonderboy only averages 17 landed strikes a round because of his style...not because he cant land more. Wonderboy has a very specific style that is methodical, movement heavy, blitz heavy and counter punch based. If he chose to throw 80, 90...100 strikes a round, he could and not completely gas out. He just chooses not to similar to Machida.

    All Pry is doing is taking Wonderboy and using a style and pace that the real life Wonderboy doesnt use.

    If this was AI Wonderboy (who on Pro level is supposed to replicate the real life fighters style) and he was throwing 100 strikes a round...that would be a problem. Now if your argument is "Players should be forced to use the real life style that a fighter uses to be successful", my question is how do you do that?

    Wonderboy has never shown a real issue with gassing so giving him a low stamina rating wouldnt be realistic. How should the game force Pry to have to use Wonderboy in a way consistent with his real life style?
    And that's the thing, you're never going to be able to control how the opposing player is going to play. Unless you're fighting a willing dance partner who is going to play sim for sim with you, when it comes to WINNING, which most people care about, they'll look to go to the most meta way of playing, or try to use a specific set of strikes to give themselves an advantage based on principles set on the game.

    Just to mention, when fighters train, they're obviously going to throw more strikes than usual since it's training, and they will have no issue throwing an excess amount of strikes. If I sat back and counted how many strikes my friend Zarrukh Adashev (2x Kickboxing Champ, 16-3 Glory Kickboxing) threw in practice, it would exceed 150+ within 10 mins, and he would be as fresh as a daisy. If I had my friend Ronnie record Garbrandt spar or just hit pads with his trainers over at TAM, he'll definitely exceed 100-200 strikes with no problem. What keeps the output lower in real fights is the fact that 'most' fighters are cognizant that they can get knocked out too/they prefer to fight on the outside /threat of grappling/etc etc


    EDIT: This fight right here:



    It doesn't matter who xxLu-Bu xx/E-GonzalezAA uses, he will play the exact same way with that jab based style with anybody and have a good amount of success because:

    Jabs take the least amount of stamina from the stamina pool (as they should, simple strike)

    BUT

    There are no balanced parries to thwart against the jabs/straight strikes.

    Even at an improper range, he can get my block to overcommit with the jab jab straight, which shouldn't be possible.

    There is no hook range that would discourage this player from being up in my face throwing these jabs, for the hook should ALWAYS beat a stuffed jab and have priority over any combination started with a stuffed jab.

    A clinch that's easy to get into, and potentially easy to get out of to discourage being so close.

    Because of this specific playstyle that I have played against countless of times and won against, I had to find specific combinations that capitalize on the inherent weaknesses/moments of vulnerabilities that I listed in the description.

    I have absolutely no fun fighting this dude, no matter how many times I win, because it feels like I'm fighting the style that the game enables, not because of the fighter he has.


    And that's coming from somebody who has given the developers TONS of praise on how they've handled the game and listened to the playerbase with fixing many broken things at launch and exploits onwards.
    Last edited by RomeroXVII; 10-09-2019, 01:07 PM.
    EA Sports UFC GameChanger
    PSN: RomeroXVII
    ESFL UFC 4 PS4 Champion
    E-Sports Summer Series EA UFC Champion (Season 1)
    ESFL UFC 4 Las Vegas 2022 World Champion

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    • johnmangala
      MVP
      • Apr 2016
      • 4525

      #17
      Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

      Originally posted by MartialMind
      That said.... As you mentioned, it SHOULD be IMPOSSIBLE to completely avoid all grappling in an MMA game, regardless of how good you are... if you're facing another competent player. It shouldn't be a thing. Especially with the clinch.

      A fighter might be absolutely insanely difficult to get down or hold on to, like Jose Aldo, but even Aldo doesn't just get to not grapple at all.

      The key is a clinch system that is very very very easy to get into and also very very easy to escape.Clinching is an integral part of combat, all combat, it's not something you can just avoid. Even boxers end up in the clinch while throwing just hands.
      This as I have said before we need a clinch that's easy to enter and easy to escape. That curbs unrelenting pressure irl. That along with an actual clinch range where we can head and hand fight like classic boxers.

      Being able to pin hands or even feet is essential in MMA.

      Comment

      • micmuted
        Rookie
        • Oct 2018
        • 145

        #18
        Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

        Originally posted by Haz____
        The idea of Wonderboy throwing 110+ strikes per -3 minute accelerated- round is just pure insanity to me. The pace of action in this game is beyond unrealistic.
        Lol agreed that’s why i don’t even watch videos of this game. Literally just two people spamming nonstop combos

        Comment

        • Evil97
          MVP
          • Apr 2016
          • 1099

          #19
          Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

          Originally posted by micmuted
          Literally just two people spamming nonstop combos

          Comment

          • RomeroXVII
            MVP
            • May 2018
            • 1663

            #20
            Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

            Originally posted by Evil97
            It's hilarious because all that dude does is throw jab straight lead body hook, jab rear body kick, moving body kicks, and then proceeds to bombard my friends with hate messages on PSN when he loses.

            Bombarded me with messages as well when he fought my imposter.

            Exactly why I don't take people that call everything spamming seriously, because they're usually like that.

            Anywho, I hope the clinch works more like:






            And being able to interrupt close up entries like:



            Last edited by RomeroXVII; 10-10-2019, 04:30 AM.
            EA Sports UFC GameChanger
            PSN: RomeroXVII
            ESFL UFC 4 PS4 Champion
            E-Sports Summer Series EA UFC Champion (Season 1)
            ESFL UFC 4 Las Vegas 2022 World Champion

            Comment

            • Haz____
              Omaewa mou shindeiru
              • Apr 2016
              • 4023

              #21
              Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

              I fought a smurf account the other day that I'm like 95% sure was Romero.
              PSN: Lord__Hazanko

              Just an average player, with a passion for Martial Arts & Combat Sports

              Comment

              • The meticulous Esp
                Rookie
                • Oct 2017
                • 244

                #22
                Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

                Originally posted by Good Grappler
                <iframe frameborder=0 webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen scale="tofit" width="640" height="365" style="max-width:100%" src="https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/the-relaxed-guy/video/79914767/embed"></iframe>


                I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that this type of thing looks unrealistic, feels unrealistic, and shouldn’t be possible.

                This guy (currently ranked #1) literally stopped every takedown and clinch attempt. Like I didn’t even get one.

                I’m not saying “I’m so good, if I couldn’t grab him, no one could”. But I mean... damn. I did about everything one can do to force this into a wrestling match. And every single clinch attempt and takedown attempt was shrugged off with ease.

                I can see someone having good anti-wrestling. I can see having quick reflexes on their sprawl, or being good at shutting down my trips in the clinch. But to completely shut down every grappling attempt at the entry level, before it even gets started? Looks a bit ridiculous. This is what’s wrong with a reaction-based, single input anti-wrestling system.

                Stephen Thompson looked like Steven Segal stopping my clinches time and time again with a magical little flick of the wrist. Imagine if an actual fight went like this. Stephen Thompson would be all over the news the next morning. Wrestling schools around the country would go out of business.
                Imo this guy is playing with a Pro Controller with the next configuration;

                - Macro 1= triangle
                - Macro 2= square
                - Macro 3= cercle
                - Macro 4= X

                This setting allows you to play all the fight WITHOUT having to move your left and right big toes from the sticks.
                Clearly that is a huge advantage to avoid all clinch and takedowns attempts.
                Last edited by The meticulous Esp; 10-10-2019, 11:16 AM.

                Comment

                • tomitomitomi
                  Pro
                  • Mar 2018
                  • 987

                  #23
                  Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

                  Originally posted by The meticulous Esp
                  This setting allows you to play all the fight WITHOUT having to move your left and right big toes from the sticks.
                  Clearly that is a huge advantage to avoid all clinch and takedowns attempts.
                  So that's what I've been doing wrong...
                  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

                  Comment

                  • NEWSS
                    Rookie
                    • Aug 2018
                    • 291

                    #24
                    Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

                    Originally posted by Good Grappler
                    <iframe width="640" height="365" src="https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/the-relaxed-guy/video/79914767/embed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" style="max-width: 100%;" scale="tofit" mozallowfullscreen="" webkitallowfullscreen=""></iframe>


                    I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that this type of thing looks unrealistic, feels unrealistic, and shouldn’t be possible.

                    This guy (currently ranked #1) literally stopped every takedown and clinch attempt. Like I didn’t even get one.

                    I’m not saying “I’m so good, if I couldn’t grab him, no one could”. But I mean... damn. I did about everything one can do to force this into a wrestling match. And every single clinch attempt and takedown attempt was shrugged off with ease.

                    I can see someone having good anti-wrestling. I can see having quick reflexes on their sprawl, or being good at shutting down my trips in the clinch. But to completely shut down every grappling attempt at the entry level, before it even gets started? Looks a bit ridiculous. This is what’s wrong with a reaction-based, single input anti-wrestling system.

                    Stephen Thompson looked like Steven Segal stopping my clinches time and time again with a magical little flick of the wrist. Imagine if an actual fight went like this. Stephen Thompson would be all over the news the next morning. Wrestling schools around the country would go out of business.

                    You got Brendan Schaub'd

                    Comment

                    • fishingtime
                      Handling it
                      • Aug 2013
                      • 1738

                      #25
                      Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

                      Dang bud. That looked horrible lol. That’s one of the most lopsided matches I have seen of yours.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                      @bikingforjesus on Instagram

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                      • TheGentlemanGhost
                        MVP
                        • Jun 2016
                        • 1321

                        #26
                        Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

                        Well, it’s too easy in this game to deny any attempt that’s doesn’t need to have a pre denial since realistic takedown windows are non-existent outside of catching the opponent in mid spin now. You basically have to do a takedown that requires the pre-denial unlike with UFC 2 where you can actually catch the opponent in mid strike. It’s a ridiculous downgrade to me in the grappling department.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

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                        • fishingtime
                          Handling it
                          • Aug 2013
                          • 1738

                          #27
                          Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

                          Originally posted by TheGentlemanGhost
                          Well, it’s too easy in this game to deny any attempt that’s doesn’t need to have a pre denial since realistic takedown windows are non-existent outside of catching the opponent in mid spin now. You basically have to do a takedown that requires the pre-denial unlike with UFC 2 where you can actually catch the opponent in mid strike. It’s a ridiculous downgrade to me in the grappling department.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports


                          It would be nice if they could add tuner matches that change the dynamics of the of the game so each style could be matched up with the style they like. One of the things I didn’t care for in these games was how people would play the engine instead of fight realistically. I think EA has done a good job of making it more realistic and the tuning a lot helps keep the flow changing. I don’t miss playing these games but I do remember playing them.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
                          @bikingforjesus on Instagram

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