4 games in and only one new position?

[allBthere]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

I’m gonna be nice here.

There was no tell them anything. One of these days I’ll be able to tell the story of what happened during development but now is not the time and I’m under NDA.

I’ll explain this ONE MORE TIME....we were not brought in for input early in development. We were presented with the gameplay elements of the game once they had already made a decision regarding what direction they were going. We weren’t told about the modes until 2 mos ago. We have no input on things at the development stage.

When I am able to freely talk, I’ll explain how the GC team was responsible for changing the devs minds regarding what would have been truly a game breaking decision.

Instead of attacking the game changers, you should be ****ing thanking them. Guys like Zack, zombie, Martial and Kenetic are a big reason that the game is even playable for this community. If they didn’t step up then, the game would be much worse.


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That's really interesting, and not surprising. I found it surprising that EA did the program to begin with. If I was a developer studio working full-time on a game I was entrusted to knock it out of the park with - I probably wouldn't do this gamechanger thing. IF I did, it would be for a future iteration and as cheap as it sounds, mainly to harvest ideas that are better than mine.

But I certainly wouldn't completely change the game mid-cycle and I also wouldn't lack the confidence in my/our own abilities to RELY on what are essentially fans - that would not only look bad to my superiors but also just show that we're not up to the task and lack the passion to do it on our own.

I'm not saying this about you guys as it seems you helped the game, but the opposite could also happen. Bit a tangent, but remember undisputed the original game? To me I was in bliss with the lack of a HUD and randomness of knockdowns and full KO's...it was so cool... then all of a sudden the "community" screamed louder and louder and we had energy bars and removal of flash ko's. That's one thing that sucks about competitive gamers - they screech so loud how some things are unfair, while it would be a handful out of hundreds of fights, so of which would go their way too.

What do you personally think the main reason the program is there? Is it to actually help the game, or more of a PR thing? I think it's too unknown of a thing to give much PR other than to the loud community in the forums that they are being 'represented' although I'm not sure that's really worth it for them...

Anyway, to me there is just no way this studio and this engine/software can bring it home for me - it just can't. Even if it could the controls are an absolute mess - that will be enough to keep MANY people from giving it more of a chance. Having worked for a massive corporation in the past I can just tell/get a sense it's the same hangups with EA, I'd be willing to bet there are too many "lifers" in upper-middle management that eff up a lot of time/progress/innovation etc. Would love a new studio give a crack at it.

[Good Grappler]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

Yeah it’s pretty bad that we still have the same exact ground game from UFC 2. Three games in a row and nothing has changed once the fight hits the mat.

Even the meta is identical... just sit there, doing absolutely nothing, waiting to deny a transition to gain GA. THEN transition. Now back to waiting for more GA. So stagnant. So repetitive. So unimmersive. Completely kills any hopes of an offensive, high activity ground contest.

And the transition fakes... oh the horridly unrealistic transition fakes. If those ever occured in a real fight, the doctor would wave the contest immediately due to unusual seizure activity.

Not to mention that damn circle filling up, feels like I’m playing tetris instead of actually grappling. To this day,

[Counter Punch]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

I think you are seriously overestimating the Game Changers' influence when it comes to whats in the game and what is not.

Dude is lashing out pretty hardcore and I’m really NOT trying to defend him but he is one the best players on here and he’s been active on these forums for a long time, so I don’t blame him for the impression he has about the GCers based on what he’s observed on this forum in the past.

I know this is gonna get me flamed but the GCers are more than happy to take credit for the things about the game that most people like but then they suddenly have no control when there is a big outcry.

I think the reality is that with the last game, they did have a lot of influence and as a result they set the tone for the direction that this game was headed. Now I know not all the GCers feel the same way, Aholbert for example is primarily an offline player. But based off of some of the changes that were made after launch with UFC3, the competitive players who were also GCers (and comp players in general) just seemed to have a disproportionate influence on the game:

We can’t have too much damage because the comp players don’t want players to get hesitant.

We can’t tax stamina in a realistic way or have mire realistic footwork because there won’t be enough action.

We can’t have certain grappling positions or ground and pound be as dangerous as it should be IRL because the fight won’t stay on the feet long enough.

We have to nerf head movement and counters off of head movement because I might have to attack the body, clinch, or go to the ground and I just wanna kickbox for 5 rounds.

We kept incrementally moving the game so far away from realism for the sake of competitive balance that the efforts for UFC 4 inevitably became expanding a house built on an extremely rocky foundation.

Get butt hurt all you want but I witnessed it myself every stop if the way and argued against it because so saw where it was going. If the GCers are upset and want to quit fine, there’s a ton of people who would gladly take that opportunity. It’s not like they didn’t get something out of it, or they wouldn’t have done it. It shouldn’t be treated as some sort of selfless act to be a GCer. And before anyone wants to start hitting me with the quote button, just know I have the receipts.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

The Ignorance/arrogance in this thread is real smh.


At some point, I got fed up with Madden.... I think around 2011. One of the infractions I have is giving one of the devs **** about the game. And then one day, crazy, it just dawned on me to not buy the game. Buying the game and hoping that it was something it wasn't while coming here to bitch about my issues (issues I saw coming) was a waste of energy.

There's been so much language dropped in this section recently that pretty much tells y'all the direction the game is going and how EA looks at it. Seeing that makes me think you guys coming on here and going off is doing and will do next to nothing. I'm not saying don't (constructively) critique the game, I'm just saying it sounds like what a lot of y'all want, you aren't gonna get. It sucks, but it is what it is.

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[aholbert32]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

Dude is lashing out pretty hardcore and I’m really NOT trying to defend him but he is one the best players on here and he’s been active on these forums for a long time, so I don’t blame him for the impression he has about the GCers based on what he’s observed on this forum in the past.

I know this is gonna get me flamed but the GCers are more than happy to take credit for the things about the game that most people like but then they suddenly have no control when there is a big outcry.

I think the reality is that with the last game, they did have a lot of influence and as a result they set the tone for the direction that this game was headed. Now I know not all the GCers feel the same way, Aholbert for example is primarily an offline player. But based off of some of the changes that were made after launch with UFC3, the competitive players who were also GCers (and comp players in general) just seemed to have a disproportionate influence on the game:

We can’t have too much damage because the comp players don’t want players to get hesitant.

We can’t tax stamina in a realistic way or have mire realistic footwork because there won’t be enough action.

We can’t have certain grappling positions or ground and pound be as dangerous as it should be IRL because the fight won’t stay on the feet long enough.

We have to nerf head movement and counters off of head movement because I might have to attack the body, clinch, or go to the ground and I just wanna kickbox for 5 rounds.

We kept incrementally moving the game so far away from realism for the sake of competitive balance that the efforts for UFC 4 inevitably became expanding a house built on an extremely rocky foundation.

Get butt hurt all you want but I witnessed it myself every stop if the way and argued against it because so saw where it was going. If the GCers are upset and want to quit fine, there’s a ton of people who would gladly take that opportunity. It’s not like they didn’t get something out of it, or they wouldn’t have done it. It shouldn’t be treated as some sort of selfless act to be a GCer. And before anyone wants to start hitting me with the quote button, just know I have the receipts.

I dont mind your assumptions but most of this is wrong.

I'm not going to let the comp GCs take blame for stuff they have nothing to do with.

The decision to only add clinch, takedown, GNP and a few small grappling animations has nothing to do with comp players.

The decision to add CAFS to ranked had nothing to do with comp players.

The decision to not add a universe mode had nothing to do with comp players.

The decision to design GnP the way they did had nothing to do with comp players.

The decision to add little to legacy grappling had nothing to do with comp players.

The decision to add no big striking animations had nothing to do with comp players.

I could go on and on but you get my point. Some of you (not saying you GG) want someone to blame and its frustrating. You cant yell at GPD because he is a dev and no longer is with EA. Blaming a faceless corporation doesnt have the same feeling as directing people that you know and interact with through the internet.

Also I love "reciepts"! Bring them out. I can only speak for me but the only thing I take credit for are stats, AI and sliders...thats it. So its silly as hell to lash out at me for **** that I dont try to influence. I dont have **** to do with 90% of what people here bitch about.

So dont bring that **** to me. I dont give a **** who the person is. If you have a complaint about Stats or AI or Sliders, I'll listen. Anything else.....dont try to lay that on me.

[Counter Punch]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

I dont mind your assumptions but most of this is wrong.

I'm not going to let the comp GCs take blame for stuff they have nothing to do with.

The decision to only add clinch, takedown, GNP and a few small grappling animations has nothing to do with comp players.

The decision to add CAFS to ranked had nothing to do with comp players.

The decision to not add a universe mode had nothing to do with comp players.

The decision to design GnP the way they did had nothing to do with comp players.

The decision to add little to legacy grappling had nothing to do with comp players.

The decision to add no big striking animations had nothing to do with comp players.

I could go on and on but you get my point. Some of you (not saying you GG) want someone to blame and its frustrating. You cant yell at GPD because he is a dev and no longer is with EA. Blaming a faceless corporation doesnt have the same feeling as directing people that you know and interact with through the internet.

Also I love "reciepts"! Bring them out. I can only speak for me but the only thing I take credit for are stats, AI and sliders...thats it. So its silly as hell to lash out at me for **** that I dont try to influence. I dont have **** to do with 90% of what people here bitch about.

So dont bring that **** to me. I dont give a **** who the person is. If you have a complaint about Stats or AI or Sliders, I'll listen. Anything else.....dont try to lay that on me.

None of my post was directed at you. And if you really want I can go look up 2 or 3 year old posts and old threads I created where gamechangers are literally defending the game mechanics and arguing against changes being made that would have taken the game in a different direction. You can’t explain that away by blaming it on EA executives.

I’m not saying they wrote the ****ing code or wrote a memo specifically asking for every aspect of the game to be the way it is, but the ones I’m talking about ABSOLUTELY supported the game being the way it was in 3 and it doesn’t take a big brain to see how the gameplay evolved from 3 to the beta for 4. They weren’t going to rework the whole game between 3 and 4.

EVERY SINGLE major problem with the gameplay (in my opinion) is rooted in:

-unrealistic stamina tuning
-unrealistic accuracy/damage tuning
-unrealistic defensive movement and tuning

All of these issues exist in order to keep fights the way the top competitors want them to look and feel. I have watched this transpire.

These things were tuned far superior in the UFC 3 beta. Then the big names got on here and started bitching, and they all got changed to the foundation for what we have now. I WAS THERE. You can blame that on “casuals”. It’s really curious that competitive players and casuals seem to have about an 85% overlap in what they want the game to be like. They diverge when it comes to CAFs in ranked and cosmetic items apparently.

[kehlis]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

If you're someone who feels better about problems by blaming people that's on you. But if you're going to be that person, name names.

Don't use blanket terms. You said "Gamechangers." Be specific if you're hellbent on blaming people for problems.

Aholbert32 is a Gamechanger, you can't blame "Gamechangers" and then back down by saying you weren't speaking about him.

If you're going to call people out, be specific and more than anything, I hope you're right because you're making assumptions based on a thread at Operation Sports which means you literally have to way to prove your accusations are right so you better have something better to back up your claims than "receipts."

[Counter Punch]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

If you're someone who feels better about problems by blaming people that's on you. But if you're going to be that person, name names.

Don't use blanket terms. You said "Gamechangers." Be specific if you're hellbent on blaming people for problems.

Aholbert32 is a Gamechanger, you can't blame "Gamechangers" and then back down by saying you weren't speaking about him.

If you're going to call people out, be specific and more than anything, I hope you're right because you're making assumptions based on a thread at Operation Sports which means you literally have to way to prove your accusations are right so you better have something better to back up your claims than "receipts."

Considering in my initial post, I specifically excluded Aholbert from what I was talking about, if your commentary is about me then it is completely invalid.

And what is this weird nonsense about calling people out by name? I’ve been very careful to limit my criticism to game changers that are also competitive online players. Calling people out by name is childish and distracts from the point I’m making. I’m fighting against the IDEAS not the people. Those who feel it applies to them can choose to take it to heart or can choose to ignore it. Others can see it for themselves or have a different opinion. The last thing this conversation needs is for people to get their egos involved, and it’s odd that you of all people would encourage the conversation to go in such an unproductive direction. Maybe people just need to take the time to read a little more carefully and be less emotional instead.

[aholbert32]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

None of my post was directed at you. And if you really want I can go look up 2 or 3 year old posts and old threads I created where gamechangers are literally defending the game mechanics and arguing against changes being made that would have taken the game in a different direction. You can’t explain that away by blaming it on EA executives.

I’m not saying they wrote the ****ing code or wrote a memo specifically asking for every aspect of the game to be the way it is, but the ones I’m talking about ABSOLUTELY supported the game being the way it was in 3 and it doesn’t take a big brain to see how the gameplay evolved from 3 to the beta for 4. They weren’t going to rework the whole game between 3 and 4.

EVERY SINGLE major problem with the gameplay (in my opinion) is rooted in:

-unrealistic stamina tuning
-unrealistic accuracy/damage tuning
-unrealistic defensive movement and tuning

All of these issues exist in order to keep fights the way the top competitors want them to look and feel. I have watched this transpire.

These things were tuned far superior in the UFC 3 beta. Then the big names got on here and started bitching, and they all got changed to the foundation for what we have now. I WAS THERE. You can blame that on “casuals”. It’s really curious that competitive players and casuals seem to have about an 85% overlap in what they want the game to be like. They diverge when it comes to CAFs in ranked and cosmetic items apparently.

CP, all that matters is what I bolded.

Casuals and comp players overlap and because of that overlap, they outnumber the hardcore fans (who also buy the game no matter what). I cant complain if EA is targeting them since they have the numbers and are less likely to buy the game if EA doesnt target them.

For example, 1212 is pissed about some things on UFC4, right? Pissed enough to make multiple posts and threads about his issues with the game. That sounds like someone who shouldnt buy the game, right?

Now come August 14, will he buy the game? I dont know but if he does...it severely weakens his argument.

You want to know why EA is focusing on casuals and most of the changes were made to appeal to first time players?......because they dont buy the game.

EA doesnt have to work get OSers to buy the game apparently. EA gave this site practically nothing. There is a wishlist and they ignored 9/10ths of it. Yet with all the bitching and to be honest....disrespect....this community is still all in on buying this game.

Maybe I'm a dick but if i sell you a product, tell you it isnt for you and you still give me your money....I dont really need to appeal to you.

[Counter Punch]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

CP, all that matters is what I bolded.

Casuals and comp players overlap and because of that overlap, they outnumber the hardcore fans (who also buy the game no matter what). I cant complain if EA is targeting them since they have the numbers and are less likely to buy the game if EA doesnt target them.

For example, 1212 is pissed about some things on UFC4, right? Pissed enough to make multiple posts and threads about his issues with the game. That sounds like someone who shouldnt buy the game, right?

Now come August 14, will he buy the game? I dont know but if he does...it severely weakens his argument.

You want to know why EA is focusing on casuals and most of the changes were made to appeal to first time players?......because they dont buy the game.

EA doesnt have to work get OSers to buy the game apparently. EA gave this site practically nothing. There is a wishlist and they ignored 9/10ths of it. Yet with all the bitching and to be honest....disrespect....this community is still all in on buying this game.

Maybe I'm a dick but if i sell you a product, tell you it isnt for you and you still give me your money....I dont really need to appeal to you.

100% facts.

[aholbert32]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

Considering in my initial post, I specifically excluded Aholbert from what I was talking about, if your commentary is about me then it is completely invalid.

And what is this weird nonsense about calling people out by name? I’ve been very careful to limit my criticism to game changers that are also competitive online players. Calling people out by name is childish and distracts from the point I’m making. I’m fighting against the IDEAS not the people. Those who feel it applies to them can choose to take it to heart or can choose to ignore it. Others can see it for themselves or have a different opinion. The last thing this conversation needs is for people to get their egos involved, and it’s odd that you of all people would encourage the conversation to go in such an unproductive direction. Maybe people just need to take the time to read a little more carefully and be less emotional instead.

To be fair, you said this:


I know this is gonna get me flamed but the GCers are more than happy to take credit for the things about the game that most people like but then they suddenly have no control when there is a big outcry.

You didnt make the distinction about me until you started talking about specific things that some GCs wanted changed and I really only addressed this in my post.

Anyway, I'm going to let people complain. They have every right to but again it will ring real hollow if a month from now, I hear the same people talking about how they are "top 100" and playing the game like crazy.

[Counter Punch]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

I can definitely see how my failure to clearly articulate my position would have led you to believe that, and I apologize for not being more careful.

It just feels like Groundhogs’ Day around here sometimes. It’s all so tiresome.

I think you’re great, and I would be sad if you decide to step down from being a GCer, because you take a lot of unfair heat and you are on here engaging with people more than anyone and telling people the truth, even when you know they won’t respond well to it or don’t wanna hear it. Just know other people are benefiting from reading your posts.

[aholbert32]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

I can definitely see how my failure to clearly articulate my position would have led you to believe that, and I apologize for not being more careful.

It just feels like Groundhogs’ Day around here sometimes. It’s all so tiresome.

I think you’re great, and I would be sad if you decide to step down from being a GCer, because you take a lot of unfair heat and you are on here engaging with people more than anyone and telling people the truth, even when you know they won’t respond well to it or don’t wanna hear it. Just know other people are benefiting from reading your posts.

I appreciate that alot.

I get it man. I have a bit of an advantage. I knew about these issues 3-4 mos ago and I was very vocal about my issues with them back then. I've had time to deal with my anger and disappointment about the direction of the game.

You guys have had less than a week.

So I'm going to try to get out of the way and let everyone freely vent.

[SwedishTouch76]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

Two and a half years later and all I really see is some weird Mortal Kombat/ Backyard Brawling quasi MMA game. Btw did Geoff Harrower quit or get fired? I read he's no longer working on the game.

This is definitely a hard pass for me...

[aholbert32]

Re: 4 games in and only one new position?

Two and a half years later and all I really see is some weird Mortal Kombat/ Backyard Brawling quasi MMA game. Btw did Geoff Harrower quit or get fired? I read he's no longer working on the game.

This is definitely a hard pass for me...

He left. He got a great position at Sony.