Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

[DCowboys22]

Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

I won't be satisfied until they commit to realistic damage and a stamina system that makes sense for MMA.


The handholding in this franchise is just absurd. I can completely understand making a control system that allows more people to play the game, but it is just ridiculous the way they are desperately chasing the casual player, as if these people would not understand why they are running out of stamina, or getting knocked out with a single kick, without several health events.


Does EA really think they buy their game and not watch MMA?



I think it was back in EA MMA where the developers said that as long as they had a proper replay system, nobody would ever be left wondering why they got flash KO'd.

This is pretty much my exact thoughts.

The stand up is fun and all, but it’s severely lacking in proper damage. What this does is make people fight without much fear of being hit. And that is not realistic.

Stamina problems aside, people would NOT be throwing 100+ strikes per round if the damage system was more realistic. If a well timed counter hook that lands on the button could actually put you down or out completely, then people will be forced to slow down and strategize their strikes a lot more.

Ultimately that’s what we need to see.

In order to win, you almost always have to hit your opponent a million times, that’s not MMA


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[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

I understand that frames are literally how any game functions. My issue is the way the frame data is handled in conjunction with other mechanics and the way the gameplay feels as a result. The tuning of stun and recovery frames just seem super unintuitive. There is so much artificial delay added to so many actions. The game is also extremely biased toward blocking as a primary form of defense. No one who actually watches the UFC is picking up this game and having any intuitive understanding of how or why blocking works in this game the way it does.

I’m constantly asking myself while playing “Why didn’t that work?” “Why did I get hit there”? “Why did this strike track my head?” “How was he able to block there”? “Why is my return strike coming out so slow?” “Why does the game delay my input there?”

The strike tracking is magnetic and illogical. I can major sway left after someone has started throwing a rear headkick and have the angle, position, and timing for the kick to go over my head and the kick will midway through just get impossibly sucked into my head and KO me. If you play the game long enough you see things all the time. It really sucks when you have good instincts and spatial awareness and the game punishes you for not applying the specific arbitrary mechanics that you have to figure out through trial and error or reading some deep-dive writeup on OS.

Any player can lunge at you with a forward moving straight from out of range, and it’s impossible to avoid the strike with head movement AND return with a hook before the player is able to block without the game arbitrarily removing your stopping power and leaving you completely vulnerable. You have to minor sway and throw a straight with the smallest timing window ever and the equivalent damage done isn’t worth the risk and skill that was involved in landing the counter in the first place. It’s unituitive, and once you learn the rules, it’s predictable and boring.

I understand that there will always be a Meta in online play, but why THIS Meta? IT SUCKS. I have watched a metric **** ton of MMA for over 10 years now. At this point I intuitively understand what a fight looks like, what works, what doesn’t, what plays out in different situations, what fighters do and don’t do and this game RARELY IF EVER even passes the smell test. I don’t feel like I’m winning right because I’m applying this knowledge and experience. If anything I feel like I have to do the opposite to have any success, which makes the game UNREWARDING and frustrating as an MMA fan.

Am I really the only one who sees this and feels this way?

[emoji1547][emoji1547][emoji1547][emoji1547] hence why I can’t make myself play the game


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[tissues250]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

I really really don't understand why don't they make the sim mode like madden? There are Sim / Arcade / Competitive modes in Madden. I think they don't want to make the game more sim. They hate realism.

https://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/news/2017/new-game-styles

[DCowboys22]

Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

The more I think about it. Realism is ultimately the only route this game can go. UNLESS they completely stop progressing on graphics and focus on arcade style gameplay.

If we imagine 10-20 years down the line, assuming video games keep progressing at this rate. Eventually, the fighters in the game are going to look nearly photo realistic and their movement will be so we’ll engineered that it’s going to look like we’re watching fighters on TV.

At this point, you can’t get away with unrealistic nonsense in the game. It will be obvious to even the most casual viewers that it doesn’t look right. Whether it’s superhero stamina or damage.

Games like UFC and Madden and any other sports sim-type games are going to have to decide what kind of game they want to be very soon.

The tech is growing rapidly. Do they want to steer the game towards Ratchet and Clank or be something that represents reality. Make a choice, double down on it or start to look really bad in the eyes of the consumers.




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[DaisukEasy]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

I understand that frames are literally how any game functions. My issue is the way the frame data is handled in conjunction with other mechanics and the way the gameplay feels as a result. The tuning of stun and recovery frames just seem super unintuitive. There is so much artificial delay added to so many actions. The game is also extremely biased toward blocking as a primary form of defense. No one who actually watches the UFC is picking up this game and having any intuitive understanding of how or why blocking works in this game the way it does.

I’m constantly asking myself while playing “Why didn’t that work?” “Why did I get hit there”? “Why did this strike track my head?” “How was he able to block there”? “Why is my return strike coming out so slow?” “Why does the game delay my input there?”

The strike tracking is magnetic and illogical. I can major sway left after someone has started throwing a rear headkick and have the angle, position, and timing for the kick to go over my head and the kick will midway through just get impossibly sucked into my head and KO me. If you play the game long enough you see things all the time. It really sucks when you have good instincts and spatial awareness and the game punishes you for not applying the specific arbitrary mechanics that you have to figure out through trial and error or reading some deep-dive writeup on OS.

Any player can lunge at you with a forward moving straight from out of range, and it’s impossible to avoid the strike with head movement AND return with a hook before the player is able to block without the game arbitrarily removing your stopping power and leaving you completely vulnerable. You have to minor sway and throw a straight with the smallest timing window ever and the equivalent damage done isn’t worth the risk and skill that was involved in landing the counter in the first place. It’s unituitive, and once you learn the rules, it’s predictable and boring.

Though I understand the frustration, this isn't an issue with frame data or the studying of it. It's entirely about the mechanics being counterintuitive.

The thing is, it's not real life, but an approximation. The physics are significantly less complicated than actual nature and your control over your character is significantly less than you have over your own body. Given those facts, you have to take shortcuts and compress and simplify a lot of aspects. Otherwise no computer, let alone consolue could run the game. And if one could theoretically run it, there aren't enough buttons on a controller to play it. And if there were, you wouldn't have enough limbs to play on the controller..

You may find some of the mechanics are unrealistic, silly or boring and that's fine. But it's probably better to seriously brainstorm about a solution instead of lashing out without understand the practical limitations, wouldn't you say?

I understand that there will always be a Meta in online play, but why THIS Meta? IT SUCKS.

This will always be the case. Because in the end, it's a game. Games have flaws and exploits. And people will find and use them. So long as there's competition, you'll have cheesers who care more about winning than having fun, that's just how it is sadly..

I have watched a metric **** ton of MMA for over 10 years now. At this point I intuitively understand what a fight looks like, what works, what doesn’t, what plays out in different situations, what fighters do and don’t do and this game RARELY IF EVER even passes the smell test. I don’t feel like I’m winning right because I’m applying this knowledge and experience. If anything I feel like I have to do the opposite to have any success, which makes the game UNREWARDING and frustrating as an MMA fan.

We all experience this. I'm curious though, how would you solve it?

Am I really the only one who sees this and feels this way?

I'm right there with you, I just empathize with the devs because there's no clear solution as far as I'm aware..

[JeffNovitski2]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

My matches on THQ UFC Undisputed 3 looked like real fights. Some weekends when there was no PPV my friends would come over and we would all get wasted and watch Event Mode together, CPU vs. CPU. We were SO PUMPED for EA UFC and pooled our money together for a PS4 and EA UFC. A fight in EA UFC looks nothing like real life. We were all so let down.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

I’m glad you said this.

I never bought this game with the expectation that it would be a “traditional fighting game (TFG), akin to street fighter or tekken. I have played every UFC game since Dreamcast And loved them. I’m not new to this franchise, but what is new is the direction UFC 3 took to move towards a TFG AFTER it released through patches.

Why advocate for the game to be something it clearly isn’t good at (a TFG)? Do you really need a UFC skinned Tekken that badly? Why not go play one of the dozens of other TFGs that do all of this better and dont alienate a big chunk of fans in the process?

Which is what I did after season 3 of this game, only checking in periodically to see what changed.
What is the chunk of fans being alienate by me advocating for the game to be better within it’s designed parameters?
What I take from this thread is mostly people wanting the game to be loose enough structurally so you can make huge glaring mistakes and not be punished for it, but also wanting the game dole out so much more damage that you have to take less risk?
Legitimately confused as to how the end results of having a more fluid(loose) set of criteria and crippling damage fixes any of the games current problems.


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[DaisukEasy]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

I’m glad you said this.

I never bought this game with the expectation that it would be a “traditional fighting game (TFG), akin to street fighter or tekken. I have played every UFC game since Dreamcast And loved them. I’m not new to this franchise, but what is new is the direction UFC 3 took to move towards a TFG AFTER it released through patches.

Why advocate for the game to be something it clearly isn’t good at (a TFG)? Do you really need a UFC skinned Tekken that badly? Why not go play one of the dozens of other TFGs that do all of this better and dont alienate a big chunk of fans in the process?

How on earth is this game anything like a traditional fighting game?

[Counter Punch]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

Though I understand the frustration, this isn't an issue with frame data or the studying of it. It's entirely about the mechanics being counterintuitive.

The thing is, it's not real life, but an approximation. The physics are significantly less complicated than actual nature and your control over your character is significantly less than you have over your own body. Given those facts, you have to take shortcuts and compress and simplify a lot of aspects. Otherwise no computer, let alone consolue could run the game. And if one could theoretically run it, there aren't enough buttons on a controller to play it. And if there were, you wouldn't have enough limbs to play on the controller..

You may find some of the mechanics are unrealistic, silly or boring and that's fine. But it's probably better to seriously brainstorm about a solution instead of lashing out without understand the practical limitations, wouldn't you say?


This will always be the case. Because in the end, it's a game. Games have flaws and exploits. And people will find and use them. So long as there's competition, you'll have cheesers who care more about winning than having fun, that's just how it is sadly..





We all experience this. I'm curious though, how would you solve it?


I'm right there with you, I just empathize with the devs because there's no clear solution as far as I'm aware..

Dude I’ve been active in this forum for years. I’ve made tons of suggestions for how the game could be improved and I argued against these changes when they were being implemented. At this point it’s clear what direction the game is going. I’m not going to pull a SUGATA And write and entire FAQ that I know is going to be ignored. At this point I’m just trying to gauge if other people feel similarly to determine if it’s even worth it to try.

The rest of your post is pretty condescending and offensive, tbh. You’re explaining the most basic, obvious realities like “this isn’t real life”. I understand this isn’t some Westworld-type simulation. Do you honestly think that is my, or anyone else’s expectation? That’s a complete strawman and probably the least charitable reading of my post as humanly possible. Are you just trying to avoid actually engaging in a discussion about how the game could be improved?

If the goal is to broaden the appeal of the game, I would think that designing the game in a way that a UFC fan could pick it up, apply real world strategies and at least stand a chance of those strategies working at least some of the time would be the route to go. But I guess trying to appeal to the EVO crowd is somehow a better direction, despite us being told daily that casuals are the target demographic.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

How on earth is this game anything like a traditional fighting game?

“Safe on block”.

In what scenario in a UFC fight, aside from being completely out of range of your opponent, are you always “safe”? At what point on a UFC fight are you able to rely almost solely on blocking as a defensive strategy? At what point in UFC does a fighter have “power armor”. At what point in a UFC fight do you have to study and opponents patterns for 3 rounds before you can start using head movement?

This is a TFG with 3D movement, head movement a stamina system, and a pretty innovative vulnerability system. It’s basically like fight night and tekken had baby that inherited each of their worst qualities and very few of their strengths.

It has FAR more in common with a traditional fighting game than it does with what I would expect from an MMA game.

[Stealthhh]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

“Safe on block”.

In what scenario in a UFC fight, aside from being completely out of range of your opponent, are you always “safe”? At what point on a UFC fight are you able to rely almost solely on blocking as a defensive strategy? At what point in UFC does a fighter have “power armor”. At what point in a UFC fight do you have to study and opponents patterns for 3 rounds before you can start using head movement?

This is a TFG with 3D movement, head movement a stamina system, and a pretty innovative vulnerability system. It’s basically like fight night and tekken had baby that inherited each of their worst qualities and very few of their strengths.

It has FAR more in common with a traditional fighting game than it does with what I would expect from an MMA game.

What I expect from an MMA game is fluidity. Especially in the striking department. If anyone wants to try this, go to practice mode and start whiffing at the air, or better yet hit an AI that is not blocking, throw some combos. Notice the fluidity and responsiveness? Now do the same but with the AI blocking... yup fluidity is gone. An option to disable the slow down on block, or a slider option would be ideal. We have so many defensive options now including blocking while using head movement which is huge. I made a thread on this, so without derailing too much just wanted to give some quick thoughts on this.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

What I expect from an MMA game is fluidity. Especially in the striking department. If anyone wants to try this, go to practice mode and start whiffing at the air, or better yet hit an AI that is not blocking, throw some combos. Notice the fluidity and responsiveness? Now do the same but with the AI blocking... yup fluidity is gone. An option to disable the slow down on block, or a slider option would be ideal. We have so many defensive options now including blocking while using head movement which is huge. I made a thread on this, so without derailing too much just wanted to give some quick thoughts on this.

So ufc 1 striking? Aside from the all powerful jab and inside low kick.


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[DaisukEasy]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

Dude I’ve been active in this forum for years. I’ve made tons of suggestions for how the game could be improved and I argued against these changes when they were being implemented. At this point it’s clear what direction the game is going. I’m not going to pull a SUGATA And write and entire FAQ that I know is going to be ignored. At this point I’m just trying to gauge if other people feel similarly to determine if it’s even worth it to try.

I'm sure you have, all I'm saying is that "We need more realism and less cheese" isn't an argument. It's a mission statement.

The rest of your post is pretty condescending and offensive

Meant as neither. I was just stating things as a matter of fact.

You’re explaining the most basic, obvious realities like “this isn’t real life”. I understand this isn’t some Westworld-type simulation. Do you honestly think that is my, or anyone else’s expectation?

You personally? No idea. But some people definitely do, which is why I broke it down, just in case.

That’s a complete strawman and probably the least charitable reading of my post as humanly possible.

You want fights to be more realistic and play out like they do in real life.
You want whatever insight/instincts you've developed in real life, to translate to the game more than it does now.
You do not want repetitive tactics based on frame advantage and unrealistic/counterintuitive gamemechanics

Did I misunderstand anything?

Like I said, I'm for all those things. A lot of us are. I'd reckon that even the devs want this to a degree. The question is, how do you create all the nuances of MMA with a simplified approximation? And that's assuming it's possible at all.

Are you just trying to avoid actually engaging in a discussion about how the game could be improved?

I literally asked you how you'd fix the issues you bring up.

If the goal is to broaden the appeal of the game, I would think that designing the game in a way that a UFC fan could pick it up, apply real world strategies and at least stand a chance of those strategies working at least some of the time would be the route to go.

I think you're overestimating the average player. People don't give two ****s about the nuances you bring up and that's assuming they even notice. They just want to throw bombs and hope for cool KOs..

But even if that isn't the case, same question as before. How?

But I guess trying to appeal to the EVO crowd is somehow a better direction, despite us being told daily that casuals are the target demographic.

Why are you assuming that "EVO players" whatever you mean by that, would somehow be in favor of these changes? Have you ever actually gone to EVO or even met anyone that has? What the hell does "appealing to them" even mean..

“Safe on block”.

In what scenario in a UFC fight, aside from being completely out of range of your opponent, are you always “safe”?

Striking, assuming proper technique, is actually quite safe, even if someone puts their guard up. Not always, but usually. The tiny factors that determine whether or not a strike is safe on guard, don't really exist in the game as far as I'm aware though. So I'm not suprised by a simplified approximation of 'always safe on block'.

If you can come up with a realistic, skillbased, practical and dynamic system to determine when you are and aren't safe on guard, I'd be all for it though.

At what point on a UFC fight are you able to rely almost solely on blocking as a defensive strategy?

You can't here either.

At what point in UFC does a fighter have “power armor”.

At what point in a UFC fight do you have to study and opponents patterns for 3 rounds before you can start using head movement?

Have you ever seen Prime Anderson Silva? First 3 minutes, he literally just studies his opponents. Feints, pokes, nothing too risky. Once he's figured out their rhythm and tendencies, he starts moving his head, pressuring hard. The fact that it takes you three rounds isn't the games fault, that's on you.

This is a TFG with 3D movement, head movement a stamina system, and a pretty innovative vulnerability system. It’s basically like fight night and tekken had baby that inherited each of their worst qualities and very few of their strengths.

Entirely different win conditions, movement system, damage system, combinations, knockdown system, no juggles, no fireballs, no mids, no crouch.. So besides all of the core aspects, they're exactly alike..I guess?

It has FAR more in common with a traditional fighting game than it does with what I would expect from an MMA game.

You keep saying that. I have yet to see you actually make the case.

[Stealthhh]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

So ufc 1 striking? Aside from the all powerful jab and inside low kick.


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No... UFC 3 striking but no slow down on block. I like the preset combos, I don't want to go back to UFC 1.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: Let's talk about the Striking/Stand Up.

No... UFC 3 striking but no slow down on block. I like the preset combos, I don't want to go back to UFC 1.

You don’t want that you’ll never be able to strike back whoever goes first will have free reign to pour it on your arms like in ufc 2.its a video game it needs checks and balances or it will be broken.


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