Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

[Reinfarcements]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

physics based animations during ragdoll that then align to target poses as they fall so that we can connect multi-actor scenarios during the diving strikes

THIS.......THIS scenario right here, this single sentence in the sea of information and features discussed in this thread, nay, this whole forum....

THIS is what my entire existence on this site has been created for. Its very purpose is to change THIS. Funny how small it looks in such few words.

Instead of having ragdolls that align to target poses to initiate these multi-actor scenarios, we need the ragdoll to be completely free, not doing any work in this scenario. The still conscious actor should be given the technology to dynamically target the ragdoll. HE, the still conscious actor, should be given the physics based animations that try to align to target poses dynamically, poses that do their best to allow him to target the ragdoll. Let the physics colliders do the rest. This would give the entire Finish the Fight scenario entirely new life, it would feel dynamic and exciting like its real life counter-part.

Then, and only then, can this forum spirit of vengeance rest.

[Skynet]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

THIS.......THIS scenario right here, this single sentence in the sea of information and features discussed in this thread, nay, this whole forum....

THIS is what my entire existence on this site has been created for. Its very purpose is to change THIS. Funny how small it looks in such few words.

Instead of having ragdolls that align to target poses to initiate these multi-actor scenarios, we need the ragdoll to be completely free, not doing any work in this scenario. The still conscious actor should be given the technology to dynamically target the ragdoll. HE, the still conscious actor, should be given the physics based animations that try to align to target poses dynamically, poses that do their best to allow him to target the ragdoll. Let the physics colliders do the rest. This would give the entire Finish the Fight scenario entirely new life, it would feel dynamic and exciting like its real life counter-part.

Then, and only then, can this forum spirit of vengeance rest.

Uhh, that's not how that works. Though I do very much understand the sentiment. multi-actor interactions like that are pretty complex. Especially when we have to account for multiple points of physical connection (knees on bellies, hand on chest, w/e it is). This is even more true for knockdowns, not knockouts. KDs require that we also transition from those striking positions into the traditional grapple positions. If the bottom guy has ragdolled, and his limbs are everywhere, the chaos that ensues is remarkable. Not a viable option.

As for the KOs, we'd still love to see tech like that. Realistically speaking, the most likely solution is a hybrid where sometimes we disable the ability to dive on the guy, and in those cases the ragdoll has full control until their timely demise. That is very much not a change that comes for free, nor is it one without in-game consequence. The lack of ability to dive on someone has long since been one of the biggest complaints this forum had before this system became the way it is. None of us want those sentiments to return...

Edit: Clarification on the "that's not how that works" bit. The physics systems don't have the ability on their own to simply stop the volumes from colliding or, more importantly, put limbs in the right place. "Physics based animations" is not a term that many people here seem to use the way we use it in industry. We can't just flip a switch and have someone run a full-body physics simulation and continue to animate with user input the way you might be thinking, nor can we simply turn it on as some kind of magic bullet when the fighters interact with each other. This particular part of our animation pipeline is very technically complex and uses multiple techniques to achieve what realism we already do. If there was a simple solution to get the ideal result we both desire, we'd have done it by now

[Reinfarcements]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Uhh, that's not how that works. Though I do very much understand the sentiment. multi-actor interactions like that are pretty complex. Especially when we have to account for multiple points of physical connection (knees on bellies, hand on chest, w/e it is).

Okay so by now I know you guys probably hate when people do this, but I gotta bring up UFC Undisputed 3.

That game does NOT have a system that 100% matches what I brought up, however it is close. The game does not have ragdoll KOs, but once the fighter hits the canvas ragdoll does turn on and from that point on it works exactly the way I was discussing. Only the still conscious actor is performing any type of animation, and has the ability to target the KOed actors head.

This happens even under "less than perfect" conditions. If you KO an opponent against the cage and the ragdoll lands on its side awkwardly, instead of flat on its back, your character still tries to engage in Finish the Fight, and still does its best to target the head despite awkward positioning of the ragdoll.

Is it always perfect? No. However it looks really good a VAST majority of the time. This sort of dynamic ragdoll targeting in the Finish the Fight sequence is vital in my opinion.

To be fair, I am asking you guys to go a step further due to ragdoll KOs starting from the feet rather than once the fighter hits the canvas so I understand that could introduce a host of new obstacles. I also understand these are not the same game engines, and achieving something on one engine may be a straight path while achieving it on another could be a curvy twisted road. Or it could be a dead end altogether.

I won't pretend to know how your team can get from point A to point B, I am just trying to articulate what I feel like that point B should look like. And to express dissatisfaction with point A I suppose.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

This happens even under "less than perfect" conditions. If you KO an opponent against the cage and the ragdoll lands on its side awkwardly, instead of flat on its back, your character still tries to engage in Finish the Fight, and still does its best to target the head despite awkward positioning of the ragdoll.

Is it always perfect? No. However it looks really good a VAST majority of the time. This sort of dynamic ragdoll targeting in the Finish the Fight sequence is vital in my opinion.

This is actually how it worked in UFC 3 as well, after one of the mid to later patches. But it was only on the walk off KO's. It worked OK 98% of the time. Other times the downed opponent would start spinning in circles and helicopter away.

There was a general fear to leave it this was though by the person who took over ragdoll's for UFC 4, even though it worked pretty well for the most part. A big part of the reason was because the goal for UFC 4 was to loosen up the ragdoll even more, so I think he was afraid it would make these situations worse. The IK on the attacking fighter did a decent job of aligning the finishing strikes most of the time, but it can only do so much.

It's a fine balancing act though.

[Skynet]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

I won't pretend to know how your team can get from point A to point B, I am just trying to articulate what I feel like that point B should look like. And to express dissatisfaction with point A I suppose.

I also won't pretend to understand these systems and their limits and abilities fully. I have never had to deal with them directly or tune them, and I know they have indeed changed over time.

However, I can assure you, we share the same goal. That ideal result is something we'd love to get to, and will use what is available to us to get closer.

[Reinfarcements]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

I also won't pretend to understand these systems and their limits and abilities fully. I have never had to deal with them directly or tune them, and I know they have indeed changed over time.

However, I can assure you, we share the same goal. That ideal result is something we'd love to get to, and will use what is available to us to get closer.

I appreciate the insight. Leaving the conversation with more optimism than I went in with.

[Chibrinator]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Uhh, that's not how that works. Though I do very much understand the sentiment. multi-actor interactions like that are pretty complex. Especially when we have to account for multiple points of physical connection (knees on bellies, hand on chest, w/e it is). This is even more true for knockdowns, not knockouts. KDs require that we also transition from those striking positions into the traditional grapple positions. If the bottom guy has ragdolled, and his limbs are everywhere, the chaos that ensues is remarkable. Not a viable option.

As for the KOs, we'd still love to see tech like that. Realistically speaking, the most likely solution is a hybrid where sometimes we disable the ability to dive on the guy, and in those cases the ragdoll has full control until their timely demise. That is very much not a change that comes for free, nor is it one without in-game consequence. The lack of ability to dive on someone has long since been one of the biggest complaints this forum had before this system became the way it is. None of us want those sentiments to return...

Edit: Clarification on the "that's not how that works" bit. The physics systems don't have the ability on their own to simply stop the volumes from colliding or, more importantly, put limbs in the right place. "Physics based animations" is not a term that many people here seem to use the way we use it in industry. We can't just flip a switch and have someone run a full-body physics simulation and continue to animate with user input the way you might be thinking, nor can we simply turn it on as some kind of magic bullet when the fighters interact with each other. This particular part of our animation pipeline is very technically complex and uses multiple techniques to achieve what realism we already do. If there was a simple solution to get the ideal result we both desire, we'd have done it by now

So you're telling me that a game which came out in 2012 has better KO system animation than a game (the 4th of the series) came out in 2020 ?
How do you explain that ? It's a shame.


Maybe try working on something people want instead of designing pumpkin head cosmetics.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

So you're telling me that a game which came out in 2012 has better KO system animation than a game (the 4th of the series) came out in 2020 ?
How do you explain that ? It's a shame.


Maybe try working on something people want instead of designing pumpkin head cosmetics.

Serious question

What is your goal when you respond with something like this?

Do you think this will help improve the game in anyway?

[RollTideRoll0929]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Wow.....I go on a 3 month hiatus and I come back to everybody pointing a pistol at somebody else, kind of like a good action/drama movie lol. I took a break from pretty much anything and everything video game related to focus on my personal life,family life, job, etc. and actually I started to miss this damn board, and even UFC 4 a little. Today was my first time playing it post patch, or patches, not really even sure what all has been done since last time I played but I do need to admit that I was a huge, huge advocate for ragdoll KOs .......yes I was that annoying guy who made it a point to bring that up in every single post on here.......I'm not sure what all has been done to the KOs......they're not quite as over the top as UFC 2 per se, but the knockouts do look a lot better than what I was seeing early on in the game, so Skynet, not sure what all was done, but they do look much better, so I promise I wont ever bug you about ragdolls anymore, bud, scouts honor!

[Haz____]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Which do you think would be used more, a turd on the face or...Elias Theodoru?

(hint, it's the turd. And that's why there's been a shift to adding metaphorical turds into the game)

I used Theodoru all the time despite his character model being 7 years old with short hair still, and him missing 50% of the moves he actually uses irl.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

I used Theodoru all the time despite his character model being 7 years old with short hair still, and him missing 50% of the moves he actually uses irl.

He didn't ask for you specifically but people in general.

[Haz____]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

He didn't ask for you specifically but people in general.

Maybe other people would have used him more if his character model wasn't outrageously outdated, and his moveset actually matched the moves he actually uses.

For a guy that gets made fun of for constantly throwing (low power)spinning strikes, he literally didn't have a single spinning strike in the game....





Just like Tim Means for example. If you read the "data", how many people actually use Tim Means? Probably no one. But that's not because no one likes Tim Means, it's because his character model has been absolutely brutalized for 3 games straight. Not even his fans want to use that terrible character model. I would know, because I am a huge fan of his. I would bet my entire bank account if his character model was correct, he would be used SIGNIFICANTLY more than he is.



Data can tell you some things, but it doesn't tell you the whole story.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Maybe other people would have used him more if his character model wasn't outrageously outdated, and his moveset actually matched the moves he actually uses.

For a guy that gets made fun of for constantly throwing (low power)spinning strikes, he literally didn't have a single spinning strike in the game....





Just like Tim Means for example. If you read the "data", how many people actually use Tim Means? Probably no one. But that's not because no one likes Tim Means, it's because his character model has been absolutely brutalized for 3 games straight. Not even his fans want to use that terrible character model. I would know, because I am a huge fan of his. I would bet my entire bank account if his character model was correct, he would be used SIGNIFICANTLY more than he is.



Data can tell you some things, but it doesn't tell you the whole story.

For what it’s worth, I LOVE Johnny Walker but I hardly use him because 1: He has nowhere near the power he does in real life, and 2: He’s so, so, SO slow compared to real life. It’s not even funny. If he was more accurate and I could blast people with one flying knee, I’d use him so much more.

Of course, he needs to be easy to drop, too, or at least rock. If I eat one clean hook with Walker by a guy with decent power (power hooks would help with this), I should get rocked badly.

[Haz____]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

Serious question

What is your goal when you respond with something like this?

Do you think this will help improve the game in anyway?

While I can't speak for this person, I do think it's very obvious why someone would post like this, and what their intent is.

Their goal is to express their overt disappointment with UFC 4. With an example that shows just part of why they are disappointed, and how far the disappointment goes, and just how mind boggling it really is.

The reason for making this post is both an expression of ones opinions, as well as a showcase of how the fans of the game are feelings. It is just 1 opinion, but an equally valid opinion as any other. If the devs see enough posts expressing these sentiments, they will understand how the people are feeling about their game.

This goes for more positive posts as well obviously, but just because he has a negative opinion, doesn't make it any less valid.

Does a game from 8 ago really have a better KO system? That would be subjective I'd suppose, but a feeling a lot of people seem to share, and maybe looking into KOs isn't such a terrible idea.

Will posts like this improve the game? Absolutely, 100% they will. As long as the devs see them, they will make a difference. Positive or negative opinions - all lead to a deeper understand of how your game is being received.

[Haz____]

Re: Are the forums indicative of the popularity of UFC 4?

For what it’s worth, I LOVE Johnny Walker but I hardly use him because 1: He has nowhere near the power he does in real life, and 2: He’s so, so, SO slow compared to real life. It’s not even funny. If he was more accurate and I could blast people with one flying knee, I’d use him so much more.

Of course, he needs to be easy to drop, too, or at least rock. If I eat one clean hook with Walker by a guy with decent power (power hooks would help with this), I should get rocked badly.

That speaks exactly to my point. If the devs put minimal effort into lower tier fighters, even their fans don't want to use them. Data can say those fighters don't get played, but the data doesn't tell why they aren't being played.



Data can tell you part of the story, but you're only getting part of it.