Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

[Granbyroll]

As a new player I'm trying to really learn this game. I read this game had frame advantage which is really cool!! But I dont really see any openings to punish anyone unless they whiff something huge.

The punches besides the overhand don't really have a huge window for punishment. And there's nowhere in the frame data that tells you how much punishment there is for a combo.


As a DragonBall fighterz player and player of many other fighting games im kind of lost understanding this or even how to calculate an advantage. Any tips here would be much appreciated.

Also since ufc 3s deep dive is the only thing available about the intricacies of the game I would like to know how its changed from 3 to 4. Thank you.

[Therebelyell626]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

As a new player I'm trying to really learn this game. I read this game had frame advantage which is really cool!! But I dont really see any openings to punish anyone unless they whiff something huge.

The punches besides the overhand don't really have a huge window for punishment. And there's nowhere in the frame data that tells you how much punishment there is for a combo.


As a DragonBall fighterz player and player of many other fighting games im kind of lost understanding this or even how to calculate an advantage. Any tips here would be much appreciated.

Also since ufc 3s deep dive is the only thing available about the intricacies of the game I would like to know how its changed from 3 to 4. Thank you.

A lot actually. The controls have been simplified greatly for the clinch. I like the way the new clinch works but the clinch controls were hard to pick up at first. I watched a few videos from Romero and pryoxis on YouTube and it helped me understand the clinch greatly

[Skynet]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

Off the top of my head, the major changes were the clinch moving to a more fluid system akin to regular standup, where strikes and transitions have a lot of interplay and there's no waiting. Escapes are done by simply walking away, and takedowns or flying subs are executed with striking inputs.

Takedowns themselves are vastly different. Denials now have tons of variety, from the driving takedowns, to the canceling into clinch, to scrambles, etc. Tons of new content and controls here.

GnP is totally overhauled as well, with an intention to make these postured up striking positions a moment of danger and skill on the ground. The sub now has various defensive options, trying to mirror those in standup, and the dom has different strikes which are effective/weak against certain kinds of defense.

The submission minigame is now 2 new minigames, split by chokes vs joint subs. They have a similar functional premise to each other, but different mechanics and meta. We really wanted to have HUDless subs, but it just didn't work in practice.

Striking controls have also changed to include tap vs hold inputs. This allowed us to take many of the strikes off of crazy 4-5 button input combos, as well as move the clinch and takedowns off of the right stick. This was huge as we wanted to make head movement always available and not locked out when holding the different shoulder buttons etc.

Grapple control now have 3 options: assist, legacy, and hybrid. The assist controls boils the grappling down to 3 intents: getup, gnp, submit and uses the left stick to choose the intent. The system then finds the most applicable transition for that and executes it. Legacy uses the same system as in UFC 3, on the right stick. Hybrid keeps both sticks active in their respective modes, but uses the legacy HUD at all times. This allows users to use assist inputs, but then see exactly what transition is being taken so they can better learn the sport and game.

There's tons of other little and not so little changes, but those are some of the biggest and most immediately apparent for new or returning users

[Skynet]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

As for more traditional fighting game mechanics like punishing and armor and frames, etc. those concepts exist and underpin the meta and design of our standup. However, due to the incredible complexity of an authentic simulation, those values are not always consistent between slightly different scenarios, as compared to more traditional fighting games.

For instance, the same strike could have more interrupt or shorter execution frames based on the ratings of the fighter. Or based on the current stamina. Or based on the vulnerability of the opponent. Because of this, and the rather complex calculations that often go into these things, we don't currently have visualizations for that data in our training modes. However, the simulation is 100% deterministic, so an identical setup will always have an identical outcome. It's just that actually getting an identical setup is rare with as many moving pieces as we have.

Wiffing is definitely one of the most obvious places you can punish, though blocking and slipping is another big one. If you block/evade a strike in a combo, it forces a certain # of safe frames before the next strike can land on you. If the opponent had queued up a really long strike there's no change, but if their strike was going to land before those safe frames expire then the strike is delayed until it will land after them. Body blocks give a longer frame advantage than head strike, though I thiiiink it's the same as slipping a head strike.

There is also a user manual in the 'Learn' tab that explains a ton of the different mechanics and systems in UFC 4. Definitely check that out. The practice mode has also been outfitted with a bunch of new options to better lab scenarios, such as starting immediately in ground or clinch positions and adding a damage HUD.

There is a blog coming out in the next few days (hopefully) which does a really deep dive on the damage system in UFC 4, using the damage HUD to help showcase some of that, so keep an eye out for that!

[Granbyroll]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

As for more traditional fighting game mechanics like punishing and armor and frames, etc. those concepts exist and underpin the meta and design of our standup. However, due to the incredible complexity of an authentic simulation, those values are not always consistent between slightly different scenarios, as compared to more traditional fighting games.

For instance, the same strike could have more interrupt or shorter execution frames based on the ratings of the fighter. Or based on the current stamina. Or based on the vulnerability of the opponent. Because of this, and the rather complex calculations that often go into these things, we don't currently have visualizations for that data in our training modes. However, the simulation is 100% deterministic, so an identical setup will always have an identical outcome. It's just that actually getting an identical setup is rare with as many moving pieces as we have.

Wiffing is definitely one of the most obvious places you can punish, though blocking and slipping is another big one. If you block/evade a strike in a combo, it forces a certain # of safe frames before the next strike can land on you. If the opponent had queued up a really long strike there's no change, but if their strike was going to land before those safe frames expire then the strike is delayed until it will land after them. Body blocks give a longer frame advantage than head strike, though I thiiiink it's the same as slipping a head strike.

There is also a user manual in the 'Learn' tab that explains a ton of the different mechanics and systems in UFC 4. Definitely check that out. The practice mode has also been outfitted with a bunch of new options to better lab scenarios, such as starting immediately in ground or clinch positions and adding a damage HUD.

There is a blog coming out in the next few days (hopefully) which does a really deep dive on the damage system in UFC 4, using the damage HUD to help showcase some of that, so keep an eye out for that!

Thank you for making me feel like every player matters. I'm honored that you take the time to respond to me.

[Granbyroll]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

As for more traditional fighting game mechanics like punishing and armor and frames, etc. those concepts exist and underpin the meta and design of our standup. However, due to the incredible complexity of an authentic simulation, those values are not always consistent between slightly different scenarios, as compared to more traditional fighting games.

For instance, the same strike could have more interrupt or shorter execution frames based on the ratings of the fighter. Or based on the current stamina. Or based on the vulnerability of the opponent. Because of this, and the rather complex calculations that often go into these things, we don't currently have visualizations for that data in our training modes. However, the simulation is 100% deterministic, so an identical setup will always have an identical outcome. It's just that actually getting an identical setup is rare with as many moving pieces as we have.

Wiffing is definitely one of the most obvious places you can punish, though blocking and slipping is another big one. If you block/evade a strike in a combo, it forces a certain # of safe frames before the next strike can land on you. If the opponent had queued up a really long strike there's no change, but if their strike was going to land before those safe frames expire then the strike is delayed until it will land after them. Body blocks give a longer frame advantage than head strike, though I thiiiink it's the same as slipping a head strike.

There is also a user manual in the 'Learn' tab that explains a ton of the different mechanics and systems in UFC 4. Definitely check that out. The practice mode has also been outfitted with a bunch of new options to better lab scenarios, such as starting immediately in ground or clinch positions and adding a damage HUD.

There is a blog coming out in the next few days (hopefully) which does a really deep dive on the damage system in UFC 4, using the damage HUD to help showcase some of that, so keep an eye out for that!

When you say blocking and slipping do you mean blocking and then slipping a strike or strikes being unsafe on block?

[Painless taken]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

Grappling is absolutely atrocious. That’s the biggest change mechanically

[Granbyroll]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

Grappling is absolutely atrocious. That’s the biggest change mechanically

I didnt ask to trash the game. I asked to get better for what the game is.

[Painless taken]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

I didnt ask to trash the game. I asked to get better for what the game is.

You asked what changed. Be thankful I answered instead of ignoring your bible chapters like everyone else

[kehlis]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

You asked what changed. Be thankful I answered instead of ignoring your bible chapters like everyone else

SOrry folks, I thought people like this had been weeded out by now or had moved on. Please carry on with the very productive conversation as if this guy hadn't interjected.

[Irish0331]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

Takedowns themselves are vastly different. Denials now have tons of variety, from the driving takedowns, to the canceling into clinch, to scrambles, etc. Tons of new content and controls here.

I'm so awful at takedown defense. I was decent with it in the last game, but in 4 unless i stand there pre-denying then I feel like I very very rarely hit a defended TD. I don't understand the timing/mechanics of a driving sub....like what to hit and when to hit is when one of those TD starts. I've gone to practice, I've watched the in depth videos but i still always get taken down. I gotta be doing something wrong becuase whenever i actually do defend a TD, i get the safe animation where i up standing with my opponent in a clinch where he's hunched over.

[TheRizzzle]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

I'm so awful at takedown defense. I was decent with it in the last game, but in 4 unless i stand there pre-denying then I feel like I very very rarely hit a defended TD. I don't understand the timing/mechanics of a driving sub....like what to hit and when to hit is when one of those TD starts. I've gone to practice, I've watched the in depth videos but i still always get taken down. I gotta be doing something wrong becuase whenever i actually do defend a TD, i get the safe animation where i up standing with my opponent in a clinch where he's hunched over.

I'm absolutely terrible at this also. Same. Watched all the videos. Spent hours practicing. If it's just defending takedown in practice I'm pretty good but the second I have to do it in a fight in the middle of a striking exchange, I can't do it.

In fairness I cant low block a body shot or check a leg kick to save my life either. It probably has a lot to do with my ability to read the animation and recognize what's coming at me quick enough to know what to input. Since eating a body shot, let kick or takedown isn't as dangerous as eating a head shot, I've probably prioritized high block over time.

The only success I have is understanding distance management better, which is probably the games intent.

All that to say, I feel ya man. However, outside of maybe opening up the denial window for slow guys like myself, I kinda like the overall design of it.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[Therebelyell626]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

I'm absolutely terrible at this also. Same. Watched all the videos. Spent hours practicing. If it's just defending takedown in practice I'm pretty good but the second I have to do it in a fight in the middle of a striking exchange, I can't do it.

In fairness I cant low block a body shot or check a leg kick to save my life either. It probably has a lot to do with my ability to read the animation and recognize what's coming at me quick enough to know what to input. Since eating a body shot, let kick or takedown isn't as dangerous as eating a head shot, I've probably prioritized high block over time.

The only success I have is understanding distance management better, which is probably the games intent.

All that to say, I feel ya man. However, outside of maybe opening up the denial window for slow guys like myself, I kinda like the overall design of it.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Count me in on this. I am absolutely atrocious at takedown defense. I kind of like it though because it makes wrestlers very viable. In UFC 3 I never had to worry because I could stop every single takedown. Now I’m lucky if i stop 2 out of 100.

On UFC 4 guys like clay guida and Frankie Edgar are my toughest fights. They pressure pressure pressure while striking using their superior cardio to wear me out. While I’m busy trying to handle their pressure on the feet they are driving me relentlessly into the mat. By round 3 my stamina is completely shot, and I am behind on points and head hunting trying to get the win

I really feel like you have to sit heavy on pre deny to be successful at takedown defense. Thankfully I have discovered that if you beat wrestlers up a little on the feet they will almost assuredly go for the takedown. Once I’ve peppered them a bit I sit heavy on the L2 + R2 + R1 pre deny. This allows me to hip toss them into dominant side control. This isn’t fool proof however as I have had my lights shut off sitting heavy on the pre deny.

[Zyaf]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

You definitely don't have to predeny for TDD. I think one of the reasons I got used to it quickly was because I was used to holding L2 R2 instinctively to takedown counter every shot back on 3. TDD is pretty much muscle memory for me at this point, I only really have to think when I'm denying chain wrestling.

[Deadforum]

Re: Mechanically whats changed from ufc 3 to ufc 4?

SOrry folks, I thought people like this had been weeded out by now or had moved on. Please carry on with the very productive conversation as if this guy hadn't interjected.

Suck my c0ck lame you and the snowflake OP. He asked a question, responded like a jerk, and got his issue. No wonder nobody post on this dying antiquated azz forum. Go ahead and ignore that 26k post having mod no life loser