Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

[Skynet]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

Nice work! Awesome to see when fans enjoy the game enough to put in this kind of dedication And I can confirm Pro is the intended difficulty for best AI behavior.

Also worth noting that for the AI Types, there are indeed 8 default template AI sets that are widely used across the roster, however that still accounts for less than half. Most fighters do use one of the custom AI Types, either bespoke to them or sharing with another fighter who's very similar to their style. With differences in moves, ratings, perks, etc. they still end up playing differently from each other and ideally close to their real self.

If you've got any feedback on particular AIs or broader AI behaviors, don't be scared to share it

[wombatsportz]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

Used these setting last night...I gotta say, WHAT A DIFFERENCE.

I never realized how much they engaged and punched and kicked etc etc until I reset the parameters with your settings.

So much sitting back out of range and picking and choosing shots. Meaningful and sensible takedown attempts, etc etc...

Very well done.

I am going to set the AI with these attriubtes too, and play against it to see if I can recreate that with 1p vs AI.

That’s great to hear, man!

One of the first things that I did when creating these sliders was turn down the standup frequency slider, because like you said, there was just an abundance of strikes being thrown that made every fight seem like a slugfest. I immediately noticed improved shot selection by the AI. The same applied to the takedown frequency slider as well. I’m glad that you noticed this too, and that you thought the overall gameplay experience was improved with these sliders!

I look forward to hearing how things go as you test these out 1p vs AI!

[wombatsportz]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

Nice work! Awesome to see when fans enjoy the game enough to put in this kind of dedication And I can confirm Pro is the intended difficulty for best AI behavior.

Also worth noting that for the AI Types, there are indeed 8 default template AI sets that are widely used across the roster, however that still accounts for less than half. Most fighters do use one of the custom AI Types, either bespoke to them or sharing with another fighter who's very similar to their style. With differences in moves, ratings, perks, etc. they still end up playing differently from each other and ideally close to their real self.

If you've got any feedback on particular AIs or broader AI behaviors, don't be scared to share it

Thank you! I am really enjoying the game and have had a great time working on this project. I appreciate you confirming that Pro is the appropriate difficulty for the best AI behavior, as well as providing additional information on the default template AI sets. That information is extremely helpful!

I will keep that information in mind as I continue observing the AI’s behavior during fights and I will certainly provide any feedback that I think could be helpful.

Thanks again!

[wombatsportz]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

I just did fight simulations with my slider set and AI style suggestions for the 4 main card fights of 296. I thought all of the fights played really well and I got some surprising outcomes. Check out the results below!


- Tony Ferguson defeats Paddy Pimblett by unanimous decision (29-28, 30-28, 30-28); FOTN

- Stephen Thompson defeats Shavkat Rakhmonov by KO (head kick) at 1:32 of Round 3

- Brandon Royval defeats Alexandre Pantoja by majority decision (47-48, 46-49, 48-48)

- Leon Edwards defeats Colby Covington by KO (Pull counter left straight) at 4:23 of Round 2; POTN


Below are fight by fight summaries of the simulations in case anyone is interested in the specifics of how the fights played out. I know it's probably unlikely (especially the Wonderboy head kick), but I'm interested to see if any of the fights on Saturday unfold similarly to these simulations lol. 296 should be great!


Fight by Fight Summaries

Ferguson vs Pimblett
Paddy started off strong in round 1 by out-striking Ferguson and landing over 60% of his strikes. He even knocked Tony down with an overhand right. Paddy came out strong in the 2nd and scored another knockdown early, but Tony weathered Paddy’s storm and showed his experience as he began piecing up Paddy. Paddy gets cut on the cheek and is honestly never the same during the fight. Tony ends up out-striking Paddy by the time round 2 is over and wins round 2 on all of the judges scorecards despite being knocked down early. Tony continues to lay it on Paddy in the 3rd, but Paddy also shows heart and starts brawling with Tony. It ends up backfiring as Tony knocks down Paddy, which results in Paddy shooting for a takedown shortly after he gets up. Tony nearly gets a sub off of his back and goes on to control the rest of the fight on the ground. Both guys are cut and visibly damaged by the end of the fight.

Rakhmonov vs Thompson
Shavkat immediately starts off the fight fast and rushes Wonderboy. Wonderboy stuns Shavkat with a left hook within the first 30 seconds of the fight, but that doesn’t detour Shavkat. He continues to push the pace and stuns Wonderboy with a head kick shortly after. Wonderboy begins being very cautious and tries to strike at a distance. The rest of the fight plays out like this. Wonderboy is cautious all fight while Shavkat constantly puts pressure on Thompson and gets the better of him during most of the exchanges. Shavkat is clearly on his way to a dominant victory, but then with 1:32 left in the fight Wonderboy lands a head kick out of nowhere as Shavkat rushes him and knocks Shavkat out cold and earns the upset victory.

Pantoja vs Royval
This fight started off a lot slower than the last two, but that was to be expected with a 5 rounded. The 1st round was very much a feeling out round, with Pantoja slightly getting the better of Royval on the feet, as well as getting more control time on the ground after Royval got a takedown. Royval took control of the fight in round 2 by out-striking Pantoja, successfully getting takedowns, and controlling him on the ground. Rounds 3 and 4 was more of the same with Pantoja trying to rally a comeback late in the 4th. Pantoja made a good effort at the end of the 4th by landing some good shots on Royval. He carried that momentum in the 5th, but it was too little too late. Royval wins via majority decision and becomes the new UFC Flyweight champ.

Edwards vs Covington
This was pure domination by Edwards. He put on a striking clinic from start to finish. Colby starts the fight by trying to walk Leon down, but Leon is patient and picks his shots carefully which results in him catching Colby with multiple counter punches. Edwards shows off his striking, head movement, footwork, and takedown defense in the 1st. Colby ended the round 0 for 6 in takedowns. Round 2 starts similar to the 1st with Colby being aggressive. Leon sticks with the game plan and continues to counter Colby. Leon even catches Colby with an overhand that puts him down. Colby survives, but not for long, as he gets knocked out after Leon pull counters an uppercut with a left straight.

[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

I’ll have to say I used these for some user vs AI and found it very very enjoyable as well

[gbmbjj]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

Thank you! I am really enjoying the game and have had a great time working on this project. I appreciate you confirming that Pro is the appropriate difficulty for the best AI behavior, as well as providing additional information on the default template AI sets. That information is extremely helpful!

I will keep that information in mind as I continue observing the AI’s behavior during fights and I will certainly provide any feedback that I think could be helpful.

Thanks again!

so I can confirm that using the AI parameters you listed for JUST AI, and then play against them on Hard/Pro as a 1p is really, really good!

In the end, all I was looking to do is make the AI take it's time and pick and choose some more, and by lowering the strike output, it does just that.

Some mods I made:

My stamina cost is +5 or +10 and the AI is +28 (seems balanced when playing)


I also use Real Time clock. I find it counter productive to use accelerated because them I'm racing to finish the fight, costing me energy and stamina.

Having a real clock really provides a sense of strategy and fighting. I'm surprise how many people use accelerated honestly.

[wombatsportz]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

I’ll have to say I used these for some user vs AI and found it very very enjoyable as well

That's great!

I still haven't tested user vs AI for myself with this slider set, but it seems like you guys are getting some pretty good gameplay with them. This set was developed strictly with realistic AI vs AI gameplay in mind, so I'm sure some of the sliders could be tweaked a bit to make for an even better user vs AI experience, but I'm glad that these settings are providing realistic user vs AI gameplay in addition to the AI vs AI gameplay.

[wombatsportz]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

so I can confirm that using the AI parameters you listed for JUST AI, and then play against them on Hard/Pro as a 1p is really, really good!

In the end, all I was looking to do is make the AI take it's time and pick and choose some more, and by lowering the strike output, it does just that.

Some mods I made:

My stamina cost is +5 or +10 and the AI is +28 (seems balanced when playing)


I also use Real Time clock. I find it counter productive to use accelerated because them I'm racing to finish the fight, costing me energy and stamina.

Having a real clock really provides a sense of strategy and fighting. I'm surprise how many people use accelerated honestly.

Nice!

I'm glad that this set provided a nice base for you, man. I agree, I've found that the strike output slider is one of the most important settings. I had it set a -60 for a long time, but decided to lower it to -50 after I had a few fights where the AI stood around while in striking range for a little longer than I liked. At -50, I haven't noticed that hardly at all. I've had some fights that are extremely fast paced and some that are slower, so -50 is providing a good mix.

I think playing with the clock set on real-time is the way to go when playing user vs AI for all of the reasons that you mentioned. I made these sliders with the goal of producing realistic AI vs AI fights and after a lot of testing I found that accelerated clock provided the best gameplay when it came to AI vs AI. I did test these sliders on real-time and I wasn't seeing many fights go the distance. I even had the strike output slider set down to -70 at one point and it was still a rare occurrence for a fight to go the distance. With the clock set on accelerated I have seen several fights go the distance, but there is also still a good amount of fights that end in KO or SUB.

Since you are playing on real-time, you could probably even move the AI's stamina cost down to the 20 - 25 range. I've found 28 to be the sweet spot for accelerated. I've seen fighters not get gassed at all in fights, but I've also seen some get gassed toward the end of the 2nd round. It really just depends on the fighters stats and strike output. With that being said, on real-time you could potentially see some AI fighters get gassed early in the second round with it set on 28.

I would also change the referee stand up timer from quick to normal while playing on real-time. I have this set to quick because of the accelerated clock as well and even on accelerated the ref is pretty quick to stand the fight up.

Just keep playing around with the sliders and find what makes the game most fun for you, man. Let me know about any effects to gameplay that you discover from your modifications!

[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

That's great!

I still haven't tested user vs AI for myself with this slider set, but it seems like you guys are getting some pretty good gameplay with them. This set was developed strictly with realistic AI vs AI gameplay in mind, so I'm sure some of the sliders could be tweaked a bit to make for an even better user vs AI experience, but I'm glad that these settings are providing realistic user vs AI gameplay in addition to the AI vs AI gameplay.

Yeah I was pleasantly surprised. But I also fight very very much with a realistic mentality. I fight to try and not get hit which produces good results with these sliders. I’m sure I could cheese it but that’s not how I like to play, so with my play style these have been awesome. Once again great work

[gbmbjj]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

Nice!

I'm glad that this set provided a nice base for you, man. I agree, I've found that the strike output slider is one of the most important settings. I had it set a -60 for a long time, but decided to lower it to -50 after I had a few fights where the AI stood around while in striking range for a little longer than I liked. At -50, I haven't noticed that hardly at all. I've had some fights that are extremely fast paced and some that are slower, so -50 is providing a good mix.

I think playing with the clock set on real-time is the way to go when playing user vs AI for all of the reasons that you mentioned. I made these sliders with the goal of producing realistic AI vs AI fights and after a lot of testing I found that accelerated clock provided the best gameplay when it came to AI vs AI. I did test these sliders on real-time and I wasn't seeing many fights go the distance. I even had the strike output slider set down to -70 at one point and it was still a rare occurrence for a fight to go the distance. With the clock set on accelerated I have seen several fights go the distance, but there is also still a good amount of fights that end in KO or SUB.

Since you are playing on real-time, you could probably even move the AI's stamina cost down to the 20 - 25 range. I've found 28 to be the sweet spot for accelerated. I've seen fighters not get gassed at all in fights, but I've also seen some get gassed toward the end of the 2nd round. It really just depends on the fighters stats and strike output. With that being said, on real-time you could potentially see some AI fighters get gassed early in the second round with it set on 28.

I would also change the referee stand up timer from quick to normal while playing on real-time. I have this set to quick because of the accelerated clock as well and even on accelerated the ref is pretty quick to stand the fight up.

Just keep playing around with the sliders and find what makes the game most fun for you, man. Let me know about any effects to gameplay that you discover from your modifications!

You my friend are a breathe of fresh air around here; there isn't much discourse on these boards, as I still have posts that have been sitting there for months with no reply still. :/

I welcome this sort of Laboratory Talk in efforts to maximize this game until the higher ups come in a start tinkering a bit more for us.

I believe there is a sweet to be found for players like me who have 0 interest in online competition and just merely want to enjoy a videogame version of my favorite sport.


That said, I agree with everything you just posted and will try those out all weekend when I plant myself in front of my TV and play.

Will report back and thanks again!

[wombatsportz]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

Yeah I was pleasantly surprised. But I also fight very very much with a realistic mentality. I fight to try and not get hit which produces good results with these sliders. I’m sure I could cheese it but that’s not how I like to play, so with my play style these have been awesome. Once again great work

Thanks, man! I do the same when I’m playing against the AI as well. I like to fight as realistic as possible and like the fighter that I’m using would fight in real life.

What difficulty are you playing on? I usually play on legendary difficulty, so I would be interested to see if the AI plays differently on legendary as opposed to pro. Anyway, I’m glad that you have been enjoying the sliders!

[wombatsportz]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

You my friend are a breathe of fresh air around here; there isn't much discourse on these boards, as I still have posts that have been sitting there for months with no reply still. :/

I welcome this sort of Laboratory Talk in efforts to maximize this game until the higher ups come in a start tinkering a bit more for us.

I believe there is a sweet to be found for players like me who have 0 interest in online competition and just merely want to enjoy a videogame version of my favorite sport.


That said, I agree with everything you just posted and will try those out all weekend when I plant myself in front of my TV and play.

Will report back and thanks again!

Thanks a lot for that, man!

It’s unfortunate that you haven’t gotten responses on some of your posts. Personally, I really appreciate you trying out these sliders and providing feedback. I have thoroughly enjoyed the lab talk with you and everyone else that has contributed in this thread.

I realize a large percentage of the player base on this game is online players, but I totally agree that there is also a good amount of players that just want to get true MMA simulation gameplay out of this game. Hopefully, these sliders and our conversations about them can help provide the simulation experience that those players are looking for.

I look forward to hearing about the gameplay you get with those modifications this weekend, man!

[The_Waterboy92]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

Thanks, man! I do the same when I’m playing against the AI as well. I like to fight as realistic as possible and like the fighter that I’m using would fight in real life.

What difficulty are you playing on? I usually play on legendary difficulty, so I would be interested to see if the AI plays differently on legendary as opposed to pro. Anyway, I’m glad that you have been enjoying the sliders!

I play on pro! Usually I play on hard I’m not the greatest at the game haha. But your sliders on pro have been awesome

[gbmbjj]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

Thanks a lot for that, man!

It’s unfortunate that you haven’t gotten responses on some of your posts. Personally, I really appreciate you trying out these sliders and providing feedback. I have thoroughly enjoyed the lab talk with you and everyone else that has contributed in this thread.

I realize a large percentage of the player base on this game is online players, but I totally agree that there is also a good amount of players that just want to get true MMA simulation gameplay out of this game. Hopefully, these sliders and our conversations about them can help provide the simulation experience that those players are looking for.

I look forward to hearing about the gameplay you get with those modifications this weekend, man!

So it's like this.....YES, lots of people play competitively and online, but LOOOOOOTS do not.

How do I know this? Skynet himself liked our conversation (above) which shows that they are appreciating people like us (and others) who are really digging into the engine they built for us in order to calibrate it nicely.

If must be nice for them to read conversations like this that isn't just bashing the game and calling out all the shortcomings (true or not). OR, have to cater 24/7 to fix or change something just because it is messing up someone's record or online promotion. That's cool and all, I get it, but it's tiring to only hear a small minority dictate what needs addressing, while the masses have to sit and wait for more broad things, like new positions, submissions, or even addressing glaring issues with current fighters. (like correct shorts or something)

Anyway, I digress...

They built a game with the ability to allow for these personal tweaks, which is what we wanted for a long time. So no surprise he enjoyed and acknowledged this thread.

I will be heading down to play shortly and will be updating this thread throughout the day/weekend.

I'm still 100% confident that this game can be an amazing 1p v CPU or CPU v CPU simulator.

Your preliminary findings have already proved the business model, it's just about tweaking some more from here....

...and of course, whatever EA has in store to build off of this foundation.

[wombatsportz]

Re: Wombat's UFC 5 Simulation AI vs AI Sliders and AI Styles

I play on pro! Usually I play on hard I’m not the greatest at the game haha. But your sliders on pro have been awesome

That's great, man! I'm definitely not the best at this game either. I started on hard when the game came out and worked my way up to where I was having good fights on legendary.

Lately, I've been spending most of my time testing out sliders with AI vs AI, so it's been a while since I actually played the game. I will probably have to drop down to pro or hard when I start playing for myself again lol.