UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

[XFactah416]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

I'm pretty excited for this card, although I still believe Alistair Overeem is an average fighter at best. K-1 strikers have always been overrated, they are not the best strikers in the world. There has never been a K-1 striker to transition into MMA and win a major World Title, the only exception is Cro Cop winning the Openweight Grand Prix in Pride. Alistair Overeem has been knocked out several times in the past, by LHW's. He's never fought a good HW since his miraculous growth spurt except for Fabricio Werdum, and he looked awful in that fight. I think Overeem's striking is above Lesnar's, but he would get blasted by Junior dos Santos or even Cain Velasquez standing. I expect Brock to take Overeem down with ease and finish him in the 1st or 2nd round on ground strikes. It doesn't matter either way, neither of them really poses a threat to the elite of the division.

I'm more excited for the Cowboy/Nate Diaz fight than any of the others. Those two are always in exciting fights, and Cowboy is starting to rub me the wrong way.. he's gotten very cocky because of his early success in the UFC. I don't think he's ready for a guy like Nate Diaz, but he'll hang in there and lose a split decision. Should be a great fight. I've always liked Jon Fitch, I know a lot of people think he's boring but I respect his style and work ethic, he should be able to beat Johny Hendrick.. I hope he manages a finish to shut some people up. Vladdy and Gustaffson is a great test for Gustaffson, I think he'll win but Vladdy is very dangerous and could pull an upset. I'm also glad to see Ross Pearson back after dropping a pretty shifty decision in his last fight.

Anyways, just my two cents on this one. I'm not as excited for the main event as others, but the rest of the card is outstanding and a really great way to close out the year.

K-1 Strikers are overrated? How??? Who are the best strikers in the world? What the..

In a pure striking match, Alistair Overeem clowns on 99% MMA fighters. MMA is different, because you have to worry about the takedowns as well as other things. For instance, GSP is the best MMA wrestler in the sport because of his outstanding ability to transition from striking to wrestling or vice versa, but that doesn't mean he would win the Gold in wrestling in the Olympics. Alistair Overeem looked like garbage against Werdum because he did not want to be on the ground so of course he fought conservative and Werdum wanted to butt scoot across the Hexagon because he was scared to death of Overeem's striking. Werdum only landed on Alistair because Alistair wasn't expecting it. Cain Velasquez would get absolutely merked by Alistair if they fought a kickboxing match.

The rest of your points are valid about how Alistair hasn't fought anybody good and I do wonder how good his heart and cardio are. I also hope Brock wins because I'm not a massive fan of Overeem anyway, but I'd be lying to myself if I didn't want to see Overeem vs Junior Dos Santos or Overeem vs Cain. But to say that K-1 strikers aren't the best in the world because they can't do well in MMA? Yeah, I'm missing something there.

I'm also surprised as to why you don't think Cerrone is ready for Nate Diaz. Cerrone looks to me like a bigger, thicker version of Nate Diaz with much better Muay Thai.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

K-1 Strikers are overrated? How??? Who are the best strikers in the world? What the..

In a pure striking match, Alistair Overeem clowns on 99% MMA fighters. MMA is different, because you have to worry about the takedowns as well as other things. For instance, GSP is the best MMA wrestler in the sport because of his outstanding ability to transition from striking to wrestling or vice versa, but that doesn't mean he would win the Gold in wrestling in the Olympics. Alistair Overeem looked like garbage against Werdum because he did not want to be on the ground so of course he fought conservative and Werdum wanted to butt scoot across the Hexagon because he was scared to death of Overeem's striking. Werdum only landed on Alistair because Alistair wasn't expecting it. Cain Velasquez would get absolutely merked by Alistair if they fought a kickboxing match.

The rest of your points are valid about how Alistair hasn't fought anybody good and I do wonder how good his heart and cardio are. I also hope Brock wins because I'm not a massive fan of Overeem anyway, but I'd be lying to myself if I didn't want to see Overeem vs Junior Dos Santos or Overeem vs Cain. But to say that K-1 strikers aren't the best in the world because they can't do well in MMA? Yeah, I'm missing something there.

I'm also surprised as to why you don't think Cerrone is ready for Nate Diaz. Cerrone looks to me like a bigger, thicker version of Nate Diaz with much better Muay Thai.

I think the overrating thing has to do with the tag of "this guy is a decorated K-1 striker" anytime someone like Reem enters an MMA fight.

Key word being MMA fight. I think we both agree that both are vastly different.

I don't really care that much that such and such fights in K-1. I don't give a damn. That's awesome. But it's gonna be an MMA fight not a K-1 fight.

To boot, I don't think Reem's striking is anything that exceptional. In an MMA match, JDS' striking scares me a whole hell of a lot more than Reem's.

[XFactah416]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

Fine, call Overeem an overrated MMA striker. That's fine.

But to say that K-1 strikers are all overrated and they are not among the best strikers in the world? That's just wrong. It's also no surprise that "K-1 level strikers" don't do so well in the Octagon because they've spent their whole lives striking, and the best base for MMA is without a doubt wrestling. You can win with wrestling and not much else.

I would love to see Junior dos Santos vs Alistair Overeem now. Someone who will, without a doubt, throw down with Alistair with no regard towards the ground.

[goh]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

This is gonna be like 2 rhinos fighting in a zoo. /argument

[The Chef]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

Apparently Cerrone is ready to throw down if the following is any sign....

"I stay in shape, I stay ready and I stay in the gym. So, yeah, I'm 100-percent confident coming into this fight. I will be in shape. In confidence, man, you look good, you feel good, you fight good. He's got good stand-up, if the fight goes to the ground, jiu-jitsu's very good. All that aside, mother****ers are game. Right now if I bumped into the parking lot and said, 'what's up?' We're throwing down. And to me, I like that mentality, man. You can't teach that. They come to fight. Me too. I'm just as game as you are. You don't have to be from Stockton to be tough. I am the best striker in the 155-pound division, I know that. That's 100-percent, I know that. So I'm going to kick him, I'm going to knee him, I'm going to elbow him, I'm going to punch him. If he wants to stand, let's stand. Come fight night, let's go, mother****er, I don't care where it goes. But if you want to talk **** to me, you're just going to raise me and piss me off and make me a better fire. So feed my ****ing flame. That's how I say let's go. Hell or high water, I'll be there to fight Nate. At the end of the night, I'll have my hand raised. I can tell you that."

[Rancid Radio]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

K-1 Strikers are overrated? How??? Who are the best strikers in the world? What the..

In a pure striking match, Alistair Overeem clowns on 99% MMA fighters. MMA is different, because you have to worry about the takedowns as well as other things. For instance, GSP is the best MMA wrestler in the sport because of his outstanding ability to transition from striking to wrestling or vice versa, but that doesn't mean he would win the Gold in wrestling in the Olympics. Alistair Overeem looked like garbage against Werdum because he did not want to be on the ground so of course he fought conservative and Werdum wanted to butt scoot across the Hexagon because he was scared to death of Overeem's striking. Werdum only landed on Alistair because Alistair wasn't expecting it. Cain Velasquez would get absolutely merked by Alistair if they fought a kickboxing match.

The rest of your points are valid about how Alistair hasn't fought anybody good and I do wonder how good his heart and cardio are. I also hope Brock wins because I'm not a massive fan of Overeem anyway, but I'd be lying to myself if I didn't want to see Overeem vs Junior Dos Santos or Overeem vs Cain. But to say that K-1 strikers aren't the best in the world because they can't do well in MMA? Yeah, I'm missing something there.

I'm also surprised as to why you don't think Cerrone is ready for Nate Diaz. Cerrone looks to me like a bigger, thicker version of Nate Diaz with much better Muay Thai.

Yeah, I should have clarified there. K-1 strikers have never translated well to MMA, with the exception of Mirko Cro Cop no major K-1 star has ever made a major impact in MMA. Nothing against their striking skills in kick-boxing matches, but being a high level K-1 striker means almost nothing in MMA if you ask me. Look at Pat Barry, great kick boxer but very, very average MMA fighter.

Also, don't overrated Overeem's striking ability. He's really not that impressive of a kick-boxer either, his only meaningful victory was against Badr Hari who came right back and obliterated him in a rematch. He's always been overrated in MMA and K-1 because of his size and his highlight reel of knocking out scrubs in impressive fashion.

And on Diaz/Cerrone, I just feel like Diaz has fought tougher guys more consistently. Him and Cerrone are very evenly matched imo, but I'm leaning towards Diaz on experience. I wouldn't be very surprised if Cerrone won, he's really good.. I just think/hope Nate wins so I'm picking him, lol.

Fine, call Overeem an overrated MMA striker. That's fine.

But to say that K-1 strikers are all overrated and they are not among the best strikers in the world? That's just wrong. It's also no surprise that "K-1 level strikers" don't do so well in the Octagon because they've spent their whole lives striking, and the best base for MMA is without a doubt wrestling. You can win with wrestling and not much else.

I would love to see Junior dos Santos vs Alistair Overeem now. Someone who will, without a doubt, throw down with Alistair with no regard towards the ground.

Junior would destroy Alistair, and he'd do it quick.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

K-1 Strikers are overrated? How??? Who are the best strikers in the world? What the..

In a pure striking match, Alistair Overeem clowns on 99% MMA fighters. MMA is different, because you have to worry about the takedowns as well as other things. For instance, GSP is the best MMA wrestler in the sport because of his outstanding ability to transition from striking to wrestling or vice versa, but that doesn't mean he would win the Gold in wrestling in the Olympics. Alistair Overeem looked like garbage against Werdum because he did not want to be on the ground so of course he fought conservative and Werdum wanted to butt scoot across the Hexagon because he was scared to death of Overeem's striking. Werdum only landed on Alistair because Alistair wasn't expecting it. Cain Velasquez would get absolutely merked by Alistair if they fought a kickboxing match.

The rest of your points are valid about how Alistair hasn't fought anybody good and I do wonder how good his heart and cardio are. I also hope Brock wins because I'm not a massive fan of Overeem anyway, but I'd be lying to myself if I didn't want to see Overeem vs Junior Dos Santos or Overeem vs Cain. But to say that K-1 strikers aren't the best in the world because they can't do well in MMA? Yeah, I'm missing something there.

I'm also surprised as to why you don't think Cerrone is ready for Nate Diaz. Cerrone looks to me like a bigger, thicker version of Nate Diaz with much better Muay Thai.

Brock wins because of your Werdum explanation. Overeem will again be tentative about going to the ground, and one of those lunchboxes, that Brock calls hands will not be the same as Werdum's strikes.

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

For some reason Fitch opened at -200 vs. Hendricks. Even the bookmakers don't respect Fitch, lol. He's the most boring high level fighter in the UFC but he has only lost once in the past 15 matches. I'm all over this moneyline.

[Sandman42]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

For some reason Fitch opened at -200 vs. Hendricks. Even the bookmakers don't respect Fitch, lol. He's the most boring high level fighter in the UFC but he has only lost once in the past 15 matches. I'm all over this moneyline.

I think that's a fair line for Fitch. Let's not forget he almost got KO'd by Mike Pierce and Hendricks fights in a fairly similar style to Pierce. I still favor Fitch, but its not like he's fighting someone he can put on their back over and over again like Thiago or Alves.

As far as Overeem, I agree the fact that he's a K1 champion means nothing in MMA. Look how Semmy Schilt did. Mark Hunt was a K1 champion also and now he's just the butt of jokes on how awful heavyweight MMA is.

[TheShizNo1]

This is gonna be on a Friday?

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

This is gonna be on a Friday?

Yessir. Should be interesting.. I have to work until 9:30 PM pacific time that night... so IDK... this pretty much blows.

[Rancid Radio]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

I think that's a fair line for Fitch. Let's not forget he almost got KO'd by Mike Pierce and Hendricks fights in a fairly similar style to Pierce. I still favor Fitch, but its not like he's fighting someone he can put on their back over and over again like Thiago or Alves.

As far as Overeem, I agree the fact that he's a K1 champion means nothing in MMA. Look how Semmy Schilt did. Mark Hunt was a K1 champion also and now he's just the butt of jokes on how awful heavyweight MMA is.

People always bring that up, but a desperate shot by an outclassed fighter in the last 30 seconds means nothing if you ask me. Just more fodder for people who dislike him to no end.. Mike Pierce also has heavier hands than Johny Hendricks if you ask me. Hendricks' wrestling also hasn't translated to MMA as well as people seem to think. He's solid, but his takedowns and grappling aren't nearly as good as people think.. he could prove me wrong but I see this being your typical Fitch fight. Hopefully Fitch gets a finish, but I don't see it against a tough guy like Hendricks.

[TheShizNo1]

Yessir. Should be interesting.. I have to work until 9:30 PM pacific time that night... so IDK... this pretty much blows.

****! This just screwed up a lot of stuff

[CueDub]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

Even though I disagree with you about Cowboy, I agree with mostly everything else.

I don't think Lesnar nor Reem could beat JDS or Cain, but I'd sure as hell still like to see it. Reem looks stiff, slow, no gas tank and has been dumped by LHW's. I don't really like him all that much as a fighter. Brock on the other hand can't take punches either, has no striking defense at all. I still expect Brock to take this.

Going back to Cowboy, he's always been like that. Nate Diaz is much "worse" than Cowboy in terms of being a brash prick. The two things I love most about the matchup is that they are similar in personalities and are two big LW's. Long guys with some differing striking skill sets but both effective. Same thing on the ground. It's gonna be one hell of a fight but I think this will cement Cowboy as a legit LW top tier guy.

Brock survived alot of punishment from Shane Carwin, and I think that Carwin has way more power than Overeem. I agree that Brock wins. I also think that this is Cowboy's time. I think he gets past the gatekeeper Diaz and starts fighting the top contenders.

[p_rushing]

Re: UFC 141 - Lesnar vs. Overeem - Dec. 30th

This will an interesting fight to see the strategy, but after that, I think it is going to be a boring 1 sided fight.

Overeem at least lately has shown he can create a great game plan and stick to that plan in the fight. He will be fine doing limited damage and stopping all the take down attempts to out point Lesnar. He may not respect the standing punching power of Lesnar, so he may let some shots slip through while defending for the take down.

Lesnar needs to show he doesn't have any rust and can beat a striker. He most likely will be able to get some shots, so he needs to take those and wait for the defense to be softened for a take down.

I would love for Overeem to come out swinging, but I don't think he will. Overeem will be timid and Lesnar will stay on the outside. The key will probably be the clinch. If Overeem can use his Muay Thai he wins, if Lesnar can control Overeem he wins.