UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

Part of its promotion but part of it is that no one is really that hyped for the main event. Its a battle between a former great who hasnt fought in 4 yrs vs. a slightly above average champion who isnt willing to defend his belt against a true MW.

Both views make sense. Maybe MMA has just has reached a point where it's a main event driven sport as far as PPV's go. Bisping and GSP aside, I'd think they'd want to push the hell out of the rest of the card too.

Garbrandt snatched the belt from a dominant champ and did it in style. Him and Dillashaw are both ultra talented and have a backstory to go with it. Perfect storm.

From a combination of skills, achievement, and personality, Joanna is the GOAT women's fighter. However, outside of fans of the sport, no one knows who the **** she is. Thug Rose is super interesting as a person, has an awesome style, and is going to go for it. This should be a huge fight too.

Gamebred vs. Wonderboy is so intriguing to me. Both came up short recently, but the skill level of both men is insane. The contrast in styles along with the technical abilities they possess are the ingredients for a great fight.

All three of those fights are more interesting than the main event to me. I'll be interested to see how much this sells. The way things are now, I think $500K - $600k would be a success.

I'd like to see UFC eventually cut down the number of PPV's a year. I remember when we'd be starving for the next big event. Now there's so many watered down cards that they've lost their luster.

I think anywhere from 6-10 would be fine. I don't mind events being on all the time because the roster is huge and we need fights, but PPV's should be special. Cut them down and load those bitches up with big fights. Maybe people aren't excited for this because they've tuned the sport out due to saturation. Who knows.

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[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

Both views make sense. Maybe MMA has just has reached a point where it's a main event driven sport as far as PPV's go. Bisping and GSP aside, I'd think they'd want to push the hell out of the rest of the card too.

Garbrandt snatched the belt from a dominant champ and did it in style. Him and Dillashaw are both ultra talented and have a backstory to go with it. Perfect storm.

From a combination of skills, achievement, and personality, Joanna is the GOAT women's fighter. However, outside of fans of the sport, no one knows who the **** she is. Thug Rose is super interesting as a person, has an awesome style, and is going to go for it. This should be a huge fight too.

Gamebred vs. Wonderboy is so intriguing to me. Both came up short recently, but the skill level of both men is insane. The contrast in styles along with the technical abilities they possess are the ingredients for a great fight.

All three of those fights are more interesting than the main event to me. I'll be interested to see how much this sells. The way things are now, I think $500K - $600k would be a success.

I'd like to see UFC eventually cut down the number of PPV's a year. I remember when we'd be starving for the next big event. Now there's so many watered down cards that they've lost their luster.

I think anywhere from 6-10 would be fine. I don't mind events being on all the time because the roster is huge and we need fights, but PPV's should be special. Cut them down and load those bitches up with big fights. Maybe people aren't excited for this because they've tuned the sport out due to saturation. Who knows.

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Promotion is hard and here is why:

Take Joanna/Rose: All those things you said are right but here is the flip side. Joanna is dominant but she doesnt finish fights. She hasnt finished a fighter since the Penne fight. Rose is soft spoken and while a top contender the losses against Karolina and Esparza kind of hang over her head so most dont thing she has a shot.

What I've learned from watching MMA is that the easiest people to promote are the finishers or talkers. Conor is both. Jones is both. Sonnen was a talker. Brock was a talker. Silva was a finisher. Rousey was both.

GSP is the only person that sold PPVs that wasnt either and part of that was because he had the whole country of Canada supporting him.

The number of PPVs isnt really the problem. Stacked cards dont really sell millions. Main Events do. They could have Conor/Ferguson and make Jessica Eye the co-main and that show would still do 1.5. Stacked cards help smaller main events do better though.

Here is the problem the UFC is facing: They cant cut PPVs because thats their biggest source of revenue and WME has to pay the interest on that billion dollar loan every year. You will also start to notice that they will be stacking Fox cards in 2018 because their contract is up and they need big ratings to generate a huge TV deal. They've already started doing it. Look at the card for the December Fox card:

Robbie Lawler vs. Rafael dos Anjos
José Aldo vs. Ricardo Lamas
Santiago Ponzinibbio vs. Mike Perry
Glover Teixeira vs. Misha Cirkunov

That is a PPV main card on Fox for free.

So that means they wont be able to stack PPVs because alot of big fights will be on Fox next year.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

Right now, who besides McGregor is selling anything? Jones is gone indefinitely. Rousey's star power is diminished and she's basically retired. Brock isn't walking through the doors anytime soon.

I haven't looked at specific PPV sale numbers this year, but all I see after every event seems to be headlines about how numbers are down. I'll have to check those out in depth, but if McGregor is the only one pushing serious numbers, I don't see why they couldn't knock down the events a little bit at some point if they worked out a great tv deal.

You'd know that industry better than I would, but even with this being a down year, I'd imagine UFC's value to Fox is somewhat significant. They provide a ton of content for them. I mean, other than their morning debate shows, I'm not sure what else they have on that network.

I understand what you're saying about PPV's though, that's their bread and butter. New stars will arise and they can count on that in the future. I also didn't factor in the whole new ownership deal either. All that makes sense. That being said, I still believe something needs to shift at some point.

I've heard a lot of MMA talking heads praise the success of the WWE Network. They're at a point now where it has basically become a necessity for wrestling fans. They started off rocky, but eventually found their lane. UFC will never go all digital, but maybe expanding on their Fight Pass service would be a step in the right direction. Offer some tiers that give you ppv access at a greatly reduced rate for example. I know I'd be highly interested in something like that.

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[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

Right now, who besides McGregor is selling anything? Jones is gone indefinitely. Rousey's star power is diminished and she's basically retired. Brock isn't walking through the doors anytime soon.

I haven't looked at specific PPV sale numbers this year, but all I see after every event seems to be headlines about how numbers are down. I'll have to check those out in depth, but if McGregor is the only one pushing serious numbers, I don't see why they couldn't knock down the events a little bit at some point if they worked out a great tv deal.

You'd know that industry better than I would, but even with this being a down year, I'd imagine UFC's value to Fox is somewhat significant. They provide a ton of content for them. I mean, other than their morning debate shows, I'm not sure what else they have on that network.

I understand what you're saying about PPV's though, that's their bread and butter. New stars will arise and they can count on that in the future. I also didn't factor in the whole new ownership deal either. All that makes sense. That being said, I still believe something needs to shift at some point.

I've heard a lot of MMA talking heads praise the success of the WWE Network. They're at a point now where it has basically become a necessity for wrestling fans. They started off rocky, but eventually found their lane. UFC will never go all digital, but maybe expanding on their Fight Pass service would be a step in the right direction. Offer some tiers that give you ppv access at a greatly reduced rate for example. I know I'd be highly interested in something like that.

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PPVs are down but that doesnt mean the UFC is losing money...they just arent making as much they did in the Rousey/Conor years.

The best way to look at the UFC's PPV business is to compare it to the music industry. Go to any music labels webpage and you will see a bunch of acts and 90% of them dont sell ****. The 10% that do support the label and make it possible for the label to pay for the other 90%.

Same situation here. In 2018, the UFC has the following potential PPVs lined up:

Conor/Diaz 3
Conor/ Ferg
Conor/GSP
GSP/Woodley
A potential Brock return fight
(3 of these 5 will likely happen)

Along with a number of solid PPV ME:

DJ vs. Garbradnt/Dillashaw
Cyborg/Holm
Bisping/Whittaker
Joanna vs. 125 womens champ

So the UFC will hope that those top 5 will do over 700k and the bottom 4 will do over 300k. The top group will be how the UFC supports the rest of the cards. They will also hope that someone like Cody or Joanna pops and breaks into that top group.

The WWE model is a little different and tougher for the UFC to emulate. WWE fighters get paid a yearly salary so WWE is less dependent on each PPV card generating revenue. Also while WWE has gotten over the hump, its not exactly a success. They are always up and down on the number of subscribers and its not completely stable.

Regarding the TV deal, Fox is likely going to keep the UFC with a demand that they put better cards on TV. There arent a ton of other suitors out here that can offer what Fox does.

[Serengeti1]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

I got GSP by vintage GSP decision. Not too sure but decently confident.

Cody over TJ. This is the fight I'm most confident about on the card. I think Cody is as confident as he is for a reason. He keeps mentioning sparring going his way too. Considering TJ hasn't denied that, I believe it. They went hard in training too (basically a real fight). TJ always goes hard. Cody also dominated Cruz. Cody is more explosive than TJ too. Better wrestling. I think TJ's best shot is probably getting it to the ground. If they only stand... I can't see TJ not getting hurt at some point. Not writing TJ off completely but yeah.

Joanna. Probably by TKO. I don't think Rose is ready for a fighter of Joanna's calibre. Will be interesting to see Joanna fight someone so unorthodox and scrappy though.

Masvidal. This is a tough fight but Masvidal is very durable and never gets knocked out. His boxing pressure could cause Thompson major problems if applied correctly. If Thompson doesn't win by knockout... I don't see him winning (EDIT: Actually, considering it's a three round fight idk). Masvidal is the more well rounded fighter. Better wrestling and ground game. Above all... I believe Masvidal is a true fighter (just very tough) and I think that's what gives him the edge to win this fight. Might as well be 50/50 though.

I do not care about Hendricks in 2017. I got Paulo.

Who you guys got?

[WarMMA]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

You guys watched the press conference? Pretty entertaining.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

I got GSP by vintage GSP decision. Not too sure but decently confident.

Cody over TJ. This is the fight I'm most confident about on the card. I think Cody is as confident as he is for a reason. He keeps mentioning sparring going his way too. Considering TJ hasn't denied that, I believe it. They went hard in training too (basically a real fight). TJ always goes hard. Cody also dominated Cruz. Cody is more explosive than TJ too. Better wrestling. I think TJ's best shot is probably getting it to the ground. If they only stand... I can't see TJ not getting hurt at some point. Not writing TJ off completely but yeah.

Joanna. Probably by TKO. I don't think Rose is ready for a fighter of Joanna's calibre. Will be interesting to see Joanna fight someone so unorthodox and scrappy though.

Masvidal. This is a tough fight but Masvidal is very durable and never gets knocked out. His boxing pressure could cause Thompson major problems if applied correctly. If Thompson doesn't win by knockout... I don't see him winning (EDIT: Actually, considering it's a three round fight idk). Masvidal is the more well rounded fighter. Better wrestling and ground game. Above all... I believe Masvidal is a true fighter (just very tough) and I think that's what gives him the edge to win this fight. Might as well be 50/50 though.

I do not care about Hendricks in 2017. I got Paulo.

Who you guys got?

Same picks, but kind of hoping Rose can win. That would be pretty sweet. Love watching both, though.

I think Garbrandt can hold this belt for a while. We'll see what happens this weekend.

Will Hendricks even make weight? Lol.

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[WarMMA]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

I got GSP by vintage GSP decision. Not too sure but decently confident.

Cody over TJ. This is the fight I'm most confident about on the card. I think Cody is as confident as he is for a reason. He keeps mentioning sparring going his way too. Considering TJ hasn't denied that, I believe it. They went hard in training too (basically a real fight). TJ always goes hard. Cody also dominated Cruz. Cody is more explosive than TJ too. Better wrestling. I think TJ's best shot is probably getting it to the ground. If they only stand... I can't see TJ not getting hurt at some point. Not writing TJ off completely but yeah.

Joanna. Probably by TKO. I don't think Rose is ready for a fighter of Joanna's calibre. Will be interesting to see Joanna fight someone so unorthodox and scrappy though.

Masvidal. This is a tough fight but Masvidal is very durable and never gets knocked out. His boxing pressure could cause Thompson major problems if applied correctly. If Thompson doesn't win by knockout... I don't see him winning (EDIT: Actually, considering it's a three round fight idk). Masvidal is the more well rounded fighter. Better wrestling and ground game. Above all... I believe Masvidal is a true fighter (just very tough) and I think that's what gives him the edge to win this fight. Might as well be 50/50 though.

I do not care about Hendricks in 2017. I got Paulo.

Who you guys got?

GSP/Bisping: I'm not sure about this either, but i'm gonna go with Bisping on this one. His cardio and toughness are almost unmatched and I feel that will keep him in the fight and allow him to settle in. And Bisping is the type of fighter that gets better as the fight goes on. If GSP does take him down, his scramble game is on point too. I think the pressure may just overwhelm GSP. If GSP does win, I feel it'll be by decision or Sub.

Cody/TJ: Most excited about this one. My pick is the same...Cody over TJ by KO/TKO. I think his speed, explosiveness and power are gonna be enough to put TJ away. We saw what he was able to do to Cruz, who imo is better than TJ, minus the wrestling maybe. TJ will probably be looking for the td tbh. Rumor has it Cody slept him in training once and use to kick his butt all the time. So if we see TJ looking for the td early on, then those rumors were probably true.

Joanna/Rose: I'm going with Joanna by decision. Her striking is is pretty amazing, her td defense is good and similar to Bisping, her scrambling is good too. I don't see Rose beating her unless she happens to catch her with something that really hurts her (like her fight against Waterson), or gets her down and is able to keep her down and go for the sub.


Masvidal/Wonderboy: Not really sure about this one. Masvidal is the more well rounded guy imo, but Wonderboy is always dangerous. Another thing is both guys have good chins. Idk who takes it honestly, but I guess i'd rather Masvidal win and get a title fight. We already saw Wonderboy fight for it twice.

[Serengeti1]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

Same picks, but kind of hoping Rose can win. That would be pretty sweet. Love watching both, though.

I think Garbrandt can hold this belt for a while. We'll see what happens this weekend.

Will Hendricks even make weight? Lol.

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I think Cody is gonna go down and beat Mighty Mouse too. I'd rather see him fight Mighty Mouse before Cruz but seems he's wanting to fight Cruz first now. Cody has the potential to go down as the GOAT. Certainly the current p4p 1. He'd just have to beat MM.

I wanna see Rose win too. She's a real nice girl. Joanna is annoying as **** so yeah. Some would just say confident but her confidence is the gross kind imo. Reminds me of Ronda.

[Yaari]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

https://www.instagram.com/p/BbAuCSIhEth/?taken-by=cody_nolove

[Serengeti1]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

https://www.instagram.com/p/BbAuCSIh...by=cody_nolove

I was never sure before as it's hard to get a sense for someone's character when you've never met them but I'm fully on the TJ is a snake train at this point. Cody is gonna eat him alive on Saturday.

The video looks a lot like the knockdowns Cody scored against Cruz so calling it a knockout may be a stretch but still... TJ is a liar. I fully believe he's done PED's and he ****ed up Chris' career. That said, most fighters are on PED's and lie about it so it is what it is (USADA is not reliable whatsoever). TJ just gives off that fake vibe at this point though. The nice guy act with that fake smile and everything.

EDIT: So apparently Cody posted a comment on instagram replying to TJ about steroids saying he never took HGH in the UFC (essentially implying he took it before UFC). He has since deleted the comment though. Waiting for a screenshot to pop up. Not surprised though. I genuinely believe most fighters are on PED's. ****, most pro-athletes in general.

[Dave_S]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

So all of team alpha was on peds, which they learned from a fresh faced kid just out of college?

Cody is a spazstick bully imo.

[Serengeti1]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

So all of team alpha was on peds, which they learned from a fresh faced kid just out of college?

Cody is a spazstick bully imo.

Cody is a bit of a bully but TJ is snakey. He comes off as a good guy on the cameras a lot but I don't buy it. I'm sure he's not all bad or anything but he's snakey.

Cody wouldn't have a reason to make up TJ bringing PED's to the gym. After all, it makes his whole gym look bad. TJ also has bad gyno so yeah lol.

[Dave_S]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

I'm okay with fighters following their coaches or leaving gyms to try and expand skills. It was weird situation between TJ and Faber though. I didn't understand Faber banning him from gym when he went to Colorado, but I don't train or anything like that.

Normally I'm careful to not burn bridges in the real world though.

[Serengeti1]

Re: UFC 217: Bisping vs. St. Pierre

As far as that... I don't really see why TJ was in the wrong. Fighters move gyms all the time. It's difficult to understand it that well from an outside point of view though. That situation seems very complicated.