The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

[rangerrick012]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

Agreed. They did not have to rush this title change. They could have built up Face vs Face type confrontations until the next PPV. Christian playing up that it's his time, while Orton playing the you are not on my level attitude. It helps build up Christian and could have been the start of a pretty good feud that did not need a traditional Face vs traditional heel. Then you have Quasi rivals Cena and Miz. I think had a pretty good run and I have no problem with him losing the strap. But I think Rock vs Cena one year setup is a mistake. Cena having the belt into next Wrestlemania (whether or not he holds it this whole time) is a big mistake. He obviously cannot lose the belt to the Rock at WM, thus removing all drama. You know the belt will not change hands to a Legend that will never be back full time.

I know ratings/interest etc is highly important. They are running a business. I think, though, that they are almost playing scared and afraid to build anyone up other than Super Cena and now Super Orton. They cannot make this a two man company with a list of young guys with potential (Barrett, Rhodes, DiBiase, McIntyre, Ziggler, etc). I feel like they are over thinking things a bit.

They were put in a tough spot w/ Edge's retirement, or else he might still be champ or Del Rio may have won over Edge. WWE was left to scramble after Edge retired and put Orton on SD to have a reliable face for the show. Again, I wouldn't have put the belt on him this soon, but it is a business decision at the end of the day. Vince feels that Orton will draw more than Christian could. With that said, Christian could always get another shot down the line.

Cena wins the title once after 10 months and people are upset, I don't get it. We've seen so many new guys get a shot at the main event the past year that it's impossible to say they don't want new guys. It's just obvious that WWE is in a transition phase right now, w/ HHH, Taker, Edge all being close to retirement or in Edge's case retired. Batista and Jericho being gone for the time being.

WWE is trying to find new guys, and I think they've found one in Miz. But they are building new stars it seems. Not sure how this relates to Christian losing the title so soon, but I'm willing to wait and see where the Christian-Orton feud goes and whether Christian regains the title or not.

@goh: Obviously I'm not going to change your mind on Orton, that's a dead end discussion. I'll just say I strongly disagree w/ your assertion of his abilities, and leave it at that. That's the great thing about wrestling, we all have our preferences, and I'm certainly not going to try and change your mind on Orton.

And FWIW the crowd did seem pretty happy when Orton won.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9AUloE3XpI

[GnarlyKing]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

2 days is equally as stupid for ADR. It would've been his first title win as well so it also would've been pissed on. Not quite as bad because he doesn't have the history Christian has but there would've been significant complaints/backlash there too.

I think that's why it wasn't Del Rio. I think they do see him as a future main eventer and champion and didn't want his first shot as champ ruined by that. As has already been mentioned, for whatever reason, Vince just doesn't want Christian as a top guy.

[legendkiller5]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

No he DOES suck. He had ONE good match with Cena,ONE good match with Sheamus and ONE above average match with Punk this last sunday. 0 great matches unless you want to count an EC he was in or Royal Rumble. Other than that his matches have been below average at best and has pulled the occasional neat RKO. The only one worse than him is Batista. Never said he wasn't over. Not sure why but yah you can give him that I guess. He wasn't over the first time they handed him the title but they kept trying.

Over the Edge? It's Over the Limit. Unless we can send him back in time and put him in a Blue Blazer costume.

2 days is equally as stupid for ADR. It would've been his first title win as well so it also would've been pissed on. Not quite as bad because he doesn't have the history Christian has but there would've been significant complaints/backlash there too.

No Vince doesn't have proof Orton would bring in more ratings. Christian hasn't had the chance to be a main eventer,there's nothing to go on. I've quite a few comments from people saying they were going to watch SD again until this happend and now they won't.

The gif I used earlier in this thread would be grossly appropriate for this post.

Dude, we get it.

And wow, that blue blazer comment was not needed.

[goh]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

Orton is worse than anyone in the current WWE. Every single person currently on the roster has been more entertaining than him and with the exception of some new guys they all have larger ammount of good matches. Even then Sin Cara has been around for a month,not on a PPV and has had the same number of good matches as Orton.

New main eventers thing again huh?

Lesse...

SD from 5/5/10:

Jack Swagger April 2nd to June 10th (1st)
Rey from June 10th to July 18th (2nd)
Kane from July 18th to December 19th (2nd)
Edge from December 19th to Febuary 4th (9th)
Dolph Ziggler from February 14th to February 15th (1st)
Edge from February 15th to April 12th (10th)
Christian from May 1st to May 3rd (1st)
Orton on May 3rd (8th)

So that's 3 people that won the title that hadn't before which would be good except 2 of them had it less than 72 hours...combined.

Raw:

Cena from March 28th to June 20th (9th)
Sheamus from June 20th to September 19th (2nd)
Orton from September 19th to November 23rd (7th)
Miz from November 23rd to May 1st (1st)
Cena from May 1st (10th)

That's one that hasn't won it before. At least he had a lengthy run.

Gee I wonder why they're in this "transition" mess now?

[GnarlyKing]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

I'm guessing he's including guys that were given main event spots but didn't win the title in there too like Del Rio, Morrison, Barrett, etc. Maybe Zack Ryder for his title shot too. LOL.

[rangerrick012]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

I'm guessing he's including guys that were given main event spots but didn't win the title in there too like Del Rio, Morrison, Barrett, etc. Maybe Zack Ryder for his title shot too. LOL.

Right. Except for Ryder - BUT HIS TIME IS COMING!

For so many years people complained about the title always being on Cena/HHH/Orton/Taker/Edge. Now WWE actually is giving new guys a shot, and people still are complaining. Cena goes 10 months w/o the title, wins it and it's ZOMG I CAN'T TAKE THIS CENA SUX~!

You've had Miz win MITB and have a lengthy title run and main event WM and defend his title. ADR win RR. Sheamus win the title twice and win KOTR. Barrett involved in the biggest program of the Summer in Nexus and win IC title. Ziggler getting a main event run, even if it didn't end too well.

People are just going to see things the way they want to, even if the facts don't back up their opinions in certain cases.

As far as Orton being the worst on the roster - now you're just trollin man, lol. Like I said, not going to try to change your mind, but I strongly disagree w/ that statement. But if that's the way you see it, so be it. Obviously Vince (and the fans) feel differently.

[goh]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

I'm guessing he's including guys that were given main event spots but didn't win the title in there too like Del Rio, Morrison, Barrett, etc. Maybe Zack Ryder for his title shot too. LOL.

That's my point. They didn't win. Thus resulting in the current situation. If any of them actually had won and had decent runs then they'd be much better off.

Zack is internet champion! He can't have 2 titles.

[Qb]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

Orton is worse than anyone in the current WWE. Every single person currently on the roster has been more entertaining than him and with the exception of some new guys they all have larger ammount of good matches. Even then Sin Cara has been around for a month,not on a PPV and has had the same number of good matches as Orton.

This is your opinion and that's cool. However, there is no need to beat people over the head with it, nor is it appropriate to assert it as fact whenever someone disagrees with you.

I have no issue with anyone saying they don't like a particular <strike>wrestler</strike> superstar, or that he/she sucks, or whatever. But let's please refrain from the "dead-end" discussions that tend to cause unnecessary problems. Thanks.

[woody2goody]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

There's nothing wrong with Orton to be fair - even his 2008-09 stuff was decent even though it seemed a bit boring at the time.

The issue is the desperate need for the title to change hands which wasn't even put off for A WEEK.

I honestly think the best title runs of the past year have been for Kane and Miz. Even when I started watching wrestling in 1999, people had the belt longer. Nobody apart from Flair had won more than 10 World Titles. Now we have Flair, HHH, Cena, Edge and even Orton has 8 or 9 at the age of 30 or whatever he is.

They need to stop with all these changes and give people longer and better runs in general. It would be just as bad in a way if Christian won the belt back at Over the Limit, because it's another change that's happened too soon (although most of us might let them off on that one).

JBL held the WWE Championship for a year. That's a proper title reign. Kane - 6 months, Miz - 150+ days - they are proper reigns which build up the legitimacy of the belt. That Steel Cage match felt important at the weekend because Miz had been a good champion, and the possibility of a title change was the big draw in my opinion.

Now it's almost certain Orton doesn't lose the title at the next PPV, so why bother with the match unless they give us a terrific bout between Randy and whoever his opponent is? They may as well make Orton wrestle Regal, Sin Cara or Daniel Bryan for 30 minutes and steal the show, because I don't think that belt is changing hands, even if Christian is the number one contender.

Jericho tweeted that it may just all be part of a bigger storyline, and I think this is very possible, but I have my doubts after a strange move like this. You never know though, a heel turn by either man could be on the way, and that might ignite the feud. If Orton is the biggest draw on SD, which I think he is, then an Orton/Christian feud could be MONEY

[goh]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

This is your opinion and that's cool. However, there is no need to beat people over the head with it, nor is it appropriate to assert it as fact whenever someone disagrees with you.

I have no issue with anyone saying they don't like a particular <strike>wrestler</strike> superstar, or that he/she sucks, or whatever. But let's please refrain from the "dead-end" discussions that tend to cause unnecessary problems. Thanks.

I was defending my opinion when questioned on it.

[GnarlyKing]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

That's my point. They didn't win. Thus resulting in the current situation. If any of them actually had won and had decent runs then they'd be much better off.

Yeah, but you can't give everybody a shot and decent runs all in the same year and most of those guys will be back to the main events before too long. I get that it would be easier to give more guys a chance if they weren't always going back to the same-old, same-old, but I think guys like Cena and Orton still benefit from the occasional run too. It's a bigger deal for someone to win the belt off of one of them than to beat, for example, Swagger for it right now. Now guys who only show up a few times a year like HHH and Undertaker should never get anywhere near a title match again, but that's another topic.

[goh]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

Since there's 2 shows I think they can actually...

Cena wins at OtL.
ADR becomes #1 contender.
ADR wins at Capitol Punishment,defends title on Raw 3 times and at MitB.
JoMo wins MitB,does the face thing cashing it in for a match in his hometown at SummerSlam and wins.
JoMo succeeds at fueding with ADR and Punk but eventually loses to Drew at Survivor Series.
Drew succeeds at fueding with JoMo and Ryder (causing the internet to blow up).
Tyler Bl...uhh...Seth Rollins wins the Royal Rumble.
Miz wins the title at EC.
Rollins beats Miz at WM.
Rollins loses to Steamboat at OtL 2012.

See lots of room. That's just Raw. All new stuff too except JoMo/Punk.

[BDKiiing]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

Since there's 2 shows I think they can actually...

Cena wins at OtL.
ADR becomes #1 contender.
ADR wins at Capitol Punishment,defends title on Raw 3 times and at MitB.
JoMo wins MitB,does the face thing cashing it in for a match in his hometown at SummerSlam and wins.
JoMo succeeds at fueding with ADR and Punk but eventually loses to Drew at Survivor Series.
Drew succeeds at fueding with JoMo and Ryder (causing the internet to blow up).
Tyler Bl...uhh...Seth Rollins wins the Royal Rumble.
Miz wins the title at EC.
Rollins beats Miz at WM.
Rollins loses to Steamboat at OtL 2012.

See lots of room. That's just Raw. All new stuff too except JoMo/Punk.

Please apply for a job for creative, they gotta get my boy Black in the main event picture, or atleast I want to see Tyler Black vs Mistico, that would be sick.

[rangerrick012]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

Yeah, but you can't give everybody a shot and decent runs all in the same year and most of those guys will be back to the main events before too long. I get that it would be easier to give more guys a chance if they weren't always going back to the same-old, same-old, but I think guys like Cena and Orton still benefit from the occasional run too. It's a bigger deal for someone to win the belt off of one of them than to beat, for example, Swagger for it right now. Now guys who only show up a few times a year like HHH and Undertaker should never get anywhere near a title match again, but that's another topic.

You're right on the mark. Your top guys need to hold the title occasionally, which is why it was shocking to see Cena go so long w/o holding the title. But you need Orton/Cena to hold the title so that if/when someone does defeat them for it, it legitimizes them and puts them over.

You can't just give someone the belt and expect them to become a superstar - WWE tried and failed at that w/ Swagger. With the Miz they did a great job of building him up so that when he won the title, he was already on that level and winning it put him over the top. Point is, stars aren't made overnight.

You can't just give someone a title and expect them to instantly be over, you have to build to it so that when they win they are already legit. This is not necessarily in relation to Christian, since I think he's pretty much already legit. But expecting WWE to just hand young guys titles left and right is too big of a risk realistically speaking. That's why giving guys the chance at feuds w/ main eventers is just as valuable as actually winning the title.

Since there's 2 shows I think they can actually...

Cena wins at OtL.
ADR becomes #1 contender.
ADR wins at Capitol Punishment,defends title on Raw 3 times and at MitB.
JoMo wins MitB,does the face thing cashing it in for a match in his hometown at SummerSlam and wins.
JoMo succeeds at fueding with ADR and Punk but eventually loses to Drew at Survivor Series.
Drew succeeds at fueding with JoMo and Ryder (causing the internet to blow up).
Tyler Bl...uhh...Seth Rollins wins the Royal Rumble.
Miz wins the title at EC.
Rollins beats Miz at WM.
Rollins loses to Steamboat at OtL 2012.

See lots of room. That's just Raw. All new stuff too except JoMo/Punk.

That would be great for SvR...but in reality, you need to have Cena/Orton in the title picture to make the title look legit. Some no name winning the title off of some other no name isn't going to put anyone over, and only would make the title look weak. Having guys like Cena/Orton hold the title is a 'necessary evil' and makes the belt look strong, so that when a guy like Miz or Sheamus does beat them for the title, they look strong as well.

[Cyphre]

Re: The OS WWE Spoilers Thread

You're right on the mark. Your top guys need to hold the title occasionally, which is why it was shocking to see Cena go so long w/o holding the title. But you need Orton/Cena to hold the title so that if/when someone does defeat them for it, it legitimizes them and puts them over.

You can't just give someone the belt and expect them to become a superstar - WWE tried and failed at that w/ Swagger. With the Miz they did a great job of building him up so that when he won the title, he was already on that level and winning it put him over the top. Point is, stars aren't made overnight.

You can't just give someone a title and expect them to instantly be over, you have to build to it so that when they win they are already legit. This is not necessarily in relation to Christian, since I think he's pretty much already legit. But expecting WWE to just hand young guys titles left and right is too big of a risk realistically speaking. That's why giving guys the chance at feuds w/ main eventers is just as valuable as actually winning the title.



That would be great for SvR...but in reality, you need to have Cena/Orton in the title picture to make the title look legit. Some no name winning the title off of some other no name isn't going to put anyone over, and only would make the title look weak. Having guys like Cena/Orton hold the title is a 'necessary evil' and makes the belt look strong, so that when a guy like Miz or Sheamus does beat them for the title, they look strong as well.

The whole title picture is WEAK already....they had to bring back Rock, Taker and HHH just to make WM interesting....and it still sucked (exept HHH vs Taker).....Ironically the demise of WWE started with the fall of WCW....with no REAL competition the WWE creative team has just sat on their asses knowing that wrestling fans have to watch whatever they put out.

WWE really needs to stop passing the tittles between the same guys and start developing new stars......Alberto Del Rio is the TOP guy to push, and Mistico (Sin Cara), Morrison, Zigler, Barrett and Gabriel are just some of the guys the need to start pushing as top contenters.....they should also bring in Jay Lethal and try to pry away AJ Styles and Beer Money from TNA.