EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

[Geff]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

I understand what Vince's new ECW was about, I just think they've failed to make it so. It's basically what ECW was in the mid 90's, a chance for wrestlers to showcase their work then get bought out by the big 2, WCW and WWF. In most cases, new talent needs time to flourish and get over, the guys I listed were and some still are in that group. If you're not going to use ECW for that, then at least get some use out of it. There's a lot of people out there who still enjoy a good spotfest especially with wrestlers they're familiar with. My "brillant" idea was just to revamp what's not working and to give life to a show that's barely breathing.

[JiggidyJames]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

I thought my idea was pretty good too. An extreme rules card with these current feuds would bring in viewers:

Punk/Chavo for the title
Jericho/JBL
HHH/Snitsky
Morrison/Miz vs Yang/Moore
Noble/Palumbo

Of course it would bring in viewers, but it's not worth it. Every PPV match with a stipulation becomes meaningless. That's why stips like Extreme Rules aren't used every week, every match. It's so simple that it's mind boggling to me why people still complain about it.

As for ECW being the "higher development show", a WWE minor league isn't working. If ECW is a "higher development show" then why didn't guys like Santino, Cody, Deuce, Domino, Jesse, Festus, DH Smith, and Drew McIntyre start out there? Because new guys and developmental talent can easily be worked into the main shows as they have.

There was a spot for all those guys at the time. They had the Umaga angle with Santino. The Orton angle with Cody. Londrick didn't have any heels to go against so they got D&D. Smith and McIntyre vanished after a couple of weeks. Jesse and Festus are a (great) comedy act perfect for SD.

But look at Miz, Morrison & Shelton. They were becoming afterthoughts but now they have a place to stay over so when it's time, they can go right back to Raw or SD. Two years ago, they might've been sent to OVW or, most likely, jobbed out and released. New gimmicks get tried out there and guys are sent there to stand out and make their name, like Punk and Lashley. And with the lower level SD guys appearing on the show it's even more obvious what the show is.

If the E is going to use the novelty of ECW, they might as well suck as much life as they can out of it. TNA Impact matching and beating ECW in ratings just goes to show the current novelty has worn off.

Welcome to 2006. yawn.

Impact vs. "ECW" is a dumb argument. Impact is TNA's only show and is how they sell PPVs. "ECW" doesn't have to do that. How many times has a feud played out only on the free show without a PPV blow-off?

[Geff]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

If it brings in viewers, it's totally worth it. The days of the Hardcore title didn't hurt PPV buys. People will still buy a PPV with Jericho/JBL Last Man Standing or Texas Bullrope even after seeing them in an extreme rules match. That's like saying steel cage matches make HIAC matches worthless. People love spotfests regardless. That's the major selling point of having an extreme rules ECW. That's what most fans expect when they see the letters ECW. Some of the match ups they could use won't even be taking place on a PPV, like a Noble/Palumbo match, or HHH/Snitsky.




As I stated before, developmental and new talent can easily be worked into the main shows. You helped make that point for me. ECW is where the new talent should have started though. Lashley didn't need ECW, ECW needed Lashley. Miz, Morrison, and Shelton didn't need ECW to keep their jobs. The E would try to hold on to them just to keep them from the so-called competition, like they did with Carlito. They didn't need ECW to try out some new gimmick. They could have stayed on one of the two main shows and developed their characters there. Then guys like Hacksaw Duggan and Tatanka wouldn't be taking the spots left by them.




What's "dumb" about comparing two shows whose ratings suck? Impact sells PPV's? Obviously not enough to make a profit. ECW's ratings have been awful compared to the main shows. Could they be doing better? That's the whole point, making ECW a more watched show and a stronger overall product from the E. CM Punk isn't enough to keep people watching. SD was gutted by injuries and talent exchanges last year. ECW's talent can't even showcase for anyone on their own show because no one watches. They should be dumped onto SD. Perhaps SD could revive their CW division again. Sure all this isn't going to happen, the draft will hopefully help the rosters gain some new rivalries and feuds. I just don't think it's the worst idea ever either.

[JiggidyJames]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

If it brings in viewers, it's totally worth it. The days of the Hardcore title didn't hurt PPV buys. People will still buy a PPV with Jericho/JBL Last Man Standing or Texas Bullrope even after seeing them in an extreme rules match. That's like saying steel cage matches make HIAC matches worthless. People love spotfests regardless. That's the major selling point of having an extreme rules ECW. That's what most fans expect when they see the letters ECW. Some of the match ups they could use won't even be taking place on a PPV, like a Noble/Palumbo match, or HHH/Snitsky.

The rise of the Hardcore Title coincided with the WWE slump of '02-'03, so...

Two problems with this. First, you cheapen the stips and desentisize the audience. They have to be kept somewhat special and you can't do that if you give the audience that match every week. The average fan isn't used to that and they'll burn out on it. Happened in ECW, happned in WWE and it's happening in TNA.

Second, you make matches on other shows meaningless. Why tune in to those shows when you know they'll have the blow-off for free anyway? You're only hurting SD and Raw.

As I stated before, developmental and new talent can easily be worked into the main shows. You helped make that point for me. ECW is where the new talent should have started though. Lashley didn't need ECW, ECW needed Lashley. Miz, Morrison, and Shelton didn't need ECW to keep their jobs. The E would try to hold on to them just to keep them from the so-called competition, like they did with Carlito. They didn't need ECW to try out some new gimmick. They could have stayed on one of the two main shows and developed their characters there. Then guys like Hacksaw Duggan and Tatanka wouldn't be taking the spots left by them.

There's not a spot for everyone at everytime. You bring up a new guy without an angle, without a current plan, they quickly become jobbers and the crowd doesn't care. All the guys you mentioned slid right in because there was a need. If Carlito didn't have this thing with Santino going on, you can bet he'd be on "ECW". Now the guys with no direction have a place to go where they can stay on TV, win some matches and stick out better. Basically reboot their careers.

The plan with Lashley was to put him on the show to make him a main eventer so when he went to Raw he'd be bought as one. Big Daddy V needed to pick up some wins and be made into a threat. This isn't complicated.

What's "dumb" about comparing two shows whose ratings suck? Impact sells PPV's? Obviously not enough to make a profit. ECW's ratings have been awful compared to the main shows. Could they be doing better? That's the whole point, making ECW a more watched show and a stronger overall product from the E. CM Punk isn't enough to keep people watching. SD was gutted by injuries and talent exchanges last year. ECW's talent can't even showcase for anyone on their own show because no one watches. They should be dumped onto SD. Perhaps SD could revive their CW division again. Sure all this isn't going to happen, the draft will hopefully help the rosters gain some new rivalries and feuds. I just don't think it's the worst idea ever either.

The two shows have different objectives. "ECW" will never be equal to Raw or SD (for whatever stupid smark reason you want to make up). It's like comparing Nitro to Heat. Or course there are ways to improve the show, but not through your ideas.

All this "what ECW was" stuff is passe and doesn't even need to be adressed. Also, most fantasy bookers/complainers never find out what the basics of booking and product branding are.

[Geff]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

An exteme rules match in ECW doesn't always have to play out to tables, ladders, and chairs. Not every single ECW match was like that. "desentize the audience"? This is 2007. I never said every blow off would take place on ECW. Now making ECW a more watched show will hurt RAW and SD's audience? RAW is going to be fine regardless. SD with a better midcard is set.

Now you're contradicting yourself. Lashley was sent to ECW to be a main eventer? Then you say:

"ECW" will never be equal to Raw or SD (for whatever stupid smark reason you want to make up). It's like comparing Nitro to Heat."

I dont think anyone was ever sent to Heat in hopes of main eventing. No one is or has ever been sent to the show nobody watches in hopes of main eventing. They were sent there in hopes of drawing more of an audience. Oh, and look, another cheap shot! Now I'm some "stupid smark"...and what's great is how this came next:

"Also, most fantasy bookers/complainers never find out what the basics of booking and product branding are."

That's not smarkish at all! Never complained, just put the facts out there that ECW is a struggling show and needs a makeover. My idea would bring viewers in and you've already agreed on that. Next post, keep this in mind, I've yet to insult you, and probably won't.

[JiggidyJames]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

An exteme rules match in ECW doesn't always have to play out to tables, ladders, and chairs. Not every single ECW match was like that. "desentize the audience"? This is 2007. I never said every blow off would take place on ECW. Now making ECW a more watched show will hurt RAW and SD's audience? RAW is going to be fine regardless. SD with a better midcard is set.

Now you're contradicting yourself. Lashley was sent to ECW to be a main eventer? Then you say:

"ECW" will never be equal to Raw or SD (for whatever stupid smark reason you want to make up). It's like comparing Nitro to Heat."

I dont think anyone was ever sent to Heat in hopes of main eventing. No one is or has ever been sent to the show nobody watches in hopes of main eventing. They were sent there in hopes of drawing more of an audience. Oh, and look, another cheap shot! Now I'm some "stupid smark"...and what's great is how this came next:

"Also, most fantasy bookers/complainers never find out what the basics of booking and product branding are."

That's not smarkish at all! Never complained, just put the facts out there that ECW is a struggling show and needs a makeover. My idea would bring viewers in and you've already agreed on that. Next post, keep this in mind, I've yet to insult you, and probably won't.

Matches in ECW didn't have to play out like that, but with the way WWE presents them, that's what they're about to the audience. That's what I meant by product branding. WWE has their style and the way they present matches. Having extreme rules every week, let alone one with a star from another brand, is counter to that vision. It's as simple as that.

Audiences DO get bruned out on hardcore stuff and DO get desentisized to. Just look at Abyss.

With Lashley, he was getting lost in SD's crowded main event scene. He was even taken out of a PPV main event. He goes to "ECW" and immediatley became the focal point of the show. Got the big Vince angle and was moved to Raw to be a main eventer. The plan didn't work (I never said it did), but that's what it was. If you think Lashley was sent there to improve the ratings, you weren't paying attention. No contradiction at all -- it's where big fish go to stick out in a small pond. I made that clear by repeating it in two posts.

And yes, there might be a little bump in ratings, but it would be short term and do more more damage than it would be worth. There are ways to improve the show, but hot shot fantasy booking ain't it.

btw, you're taking my "stupid smark" comment waaay to serious, unless you really are one of the two or both.

[Geff]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

I've never seen a TNA crowd burned out on a X-Division, Monster's Ball, or Ultimate X match. I've only seen the crowd popping the entire match. If the audience is burned out with Abyss, they've yet to show it, he's still one of the most over guys they got. The main reason people aren't into ECW anymore is because it's not the fun spotfest they once enjoyed.

I was paying attention enough to know why Lashley was removed from the Bash. Same reason Khali was, elevated enzyme levels in the liver, a medical condition. Seeing as how this happened just days before the PPV, let's not start making up some ridiculous and bogus conspiracy theories like having too many main eventers...that's really reaching. Lashley wasn't lost in the shuffle whatsoever, he just came off a US title run. ECW needed Lashley to replace the departing Big Show. ECW needed star power. Star power=Larger audience. That's why Angle and Benoit were used there. Lashley wasn't moved to ECW to gain main event status. He was closer to having that on SD than ECW.


Oh, and I wasn't taking your "stupid smark" comment too seriously, you just needed to be reminded that it is possible to debate something without resorting to weak and pointless insults.

[JiggidyJames]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

I've never seen a TNA crowd burned out on a X-Division, Monster's Ball, or Ultimate X match. I've only seen the crowd popping the entire match. If the audience is burned out with Abyss, they've yet to show it, he's still one of the most over guys they got. The main reason people aren't into ECW anymore is because it's not the fun spotfest they once enjoyed.

I was paying attention enough to know why Lashley was removed from the Bash. Same reason Khali was, elevated enzyme levels in the liver, a medical condition. Seeing as how this happened just days before the PPV, let's not start making up some ridiculous and bogus conspiracy theories like having too many main eventers...that's really reaching. Lashley wasn't lost in the shuffle whatsoever, he just came off a US title run. ECW needed Lashley to replace the departing Big Show. ECW needed star power. Star power=Larger audience. That's why Angle and Benoit were used there. Lashley wasn't moved to ECW to gain main event status. He was closer to having that on SD than ECW.


Oh, and I wasn't taking your "stupid smark" comment too seriously, you just needed to be reminded that it is possible to debate something without resorting to weak and pointless insults.

Yawn. This is getting boring.

The Orlando crowd is burnt. They expect the next X-Division match to top the last one and it turns into a "top this" contest. Look at the backlash against Abyss for using tacks in every match for the past three years. We're always talking about how the crowd at the Impact Zone sucks. If you're basing how over they are from the pops they get on free TV, you're naive. And on top that, nobody's buying their PPVs. Doesn't that tell you something?

You're thinking about the wrong Lashley match, so you weren't paying attention. He was tken out of a three way with Finlay and Regal because of the liver thing. He had a match with Booker that was changed to a four way the week before because Michael Hayes convinced Vince it was gonna bomb. Hayes wasn't a fan and wasn't keen on pushing him so hard. There wasn't a main event slot open on Raw at the time, so Vince made the call to move him to "ECW" where he could be pushed that hard. That's it.

Angle is irrelevant because that was when the brand was something different and Beniot was there to give the rub to the new guys and help them along. Kinda of like what Rob Conway and Nick Dismore did in OVW.

You keep talking about these spotfests, but WWE doesn't do those like that. Never have, never will. If that's what you're looking for, you won't find it on a WWE produced show. And you shouldn't because then WWE loses what makes it WWE.

As long as I'm not violating the TOS with my comments, get over it. And this a really tired argument that's going nowhere. Know when to give up.

[Geff]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

It's a tired arguement that you just couldn't win. Every other post you made contradicted the other to the point where it was all just mindless babble from some smark who thinks he's in the know. Oh look, the WWE Spinner belt still spins too. Now, I'm done.

[JiggidyJames]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

It's a tired arguement that you just couldn't win. Every other post you made contradicted the other to the point where it was all just mindless babble from some smark who thinks he's in the know. Oh look, the WWE Spinner belt still spins too. Now, I'm done.

Oh no, I "won" with my first reply to you. You were wrong and your idea sucked, nothing more to it. Maybe to save face you can cry to a mod about how I insulted you.

[twistaeffect2003]

Re: EG Can Finally Watch ECW Again

Really enjoyed last nights ECW show.

Love, love, love.. the Colin Delany/Tommy Dreamer angle. This really could be good. It's awesome seeing Dreamer get a good midcard angle here. He's deserved it. Good match between him and Morrison. And I love the team of Morrison/Miz...

I was a little iffy when they put the strap on Chavo, but he's doing a good job of getting heat from the crowd. They've really built this up very well, and Punk has done a very good job of being the chaser, rather than the chased. I like him in this role. If given a decent amount of time, their match at NWO could be a good one. I expect Chavo to retain at the PPV, with this angle going into Wrestlemania (with a possible addition of Shelton Benjamin/Elijah Burke/Kane/or even Big Show).

Awesome seeing Stevie Richards in the ring again. The guy has been through so much with his array of throat surgeries in recent months. He's a very good worker, and it actually looks like he can get a decent mid card push. The fans really got behind him as the emotional draw last night, awesome to see. He's a good worker and has paid his dues.

Is it just me, or is Kelly-Kelly becoming halfway decent in the ring? She's improved dramatically in my opinion. I remember when her taking a hip toss looked akward. Now she's really starting to grasp how to sell moves, how to get the audience to care, even in the smallest amount. I'm not saying she's a good wrestler yet, and she might never be. But I respect the fact that she's progressed so much in a pretty short amount of time. And Layla is ridiculously hot.


Overall, i'm so glad that they are actually giving ECW time. They are building characters, they are building fueds, and are giving this brand a title match at a big PPV building up for Wrestlemania. ECW may be nothing but a steroided OVW, but what's so wrong with that? We get to see guys that otherwise would be working dark matches, and get no TV time. (IE Brian Kendrick, and Paul London on Raw... they are now jobbers, which is a damn shame.)

If people would look at ECW for what it is, it really is a good wrestling show, and is entertaining.