Need Clarification (Wrestling Insiders)

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  • jerseyboi2284
    Pro
    • Apr 2005
    • 910
    #1

    Need Clarification (Wrestling Insiders)

    We all know Pro-Wrestling is "staged" "worked" "fake" whatever you want to call it. But some matches actually prove who is a better wrestler especially in some overseas (Japan especially) contests and before the "sports entertainment era" took over.

    Reading certain comments by current and former performers and speaking to a few people in the business I've found every match doesn't have a pre-determined outcome.

    But my question is:

    Besides the booking how are/were wrestling matches decided?

    Looking back you really can't tell which matches were settled by the ref, the promoter/announcers, or the performers in the ring if crafted well. except when it was extremely sloppy (a shoot)
    Tags: None
    • marxxx
      Rookie
      • Nov 2005
      • 133
      #2
      Re: Need Clarification (Wrestling Insiders)

      I don't think a shoot is described as being sloppy... A shoot is really when things leave the creative direction. I know shoots of when wrestlers break character and speak of what really happened or what they really think of a situation and so on. There have also been a few backstage fights over time!

      As for a direct and accurate answer to your question, it would probably take a real big name promoter to clarify. I know a lot of the big stars have refused to lose (called a job) matches because they felt they were above it or didn't want their public perception to be changed by losing to someone etc.... If you ask me, people like Curt Angle are the best for the business, they are willing to job to other wrestlers, build them up and help develop their careers. This is absolutely necessary to for the business to evolve and grow.

      I do know that things have gotten carried away at some of the indy shows, for example someone miscues and gives an opponent a stiff shot leading to more stiff shots back and forth (basically turning into a fight). Many wrestlers have reputations for working stiff.

      In mainstream televised wrestling, I think it is (and has pretty much much always been) creative who decides the outcome... whether by the bookers or the wrestlers who were favored enough to have their own creative control.

        Comment

        • JiggidyJames
          All Star
          • Apr 2005
          • 5267
          #3
          Re: Need Clarification (Wrestling Insiders)

          It's all worked. There were Japanese promotions that blurred the line by having both shoots and works on cards, but if it's pro-wrestling, the outcome is pre-determined (MMA =/= Pro Wrestling) A lot of old timers still kayfabe their way through these supposed shoot interviews.

          Now, there were double crosses back in the territory days and even in Japan. A promoter would want his guy with the belt so he'd have his guy shoot...guys would go into business for themselves to make a name or get paid...there were sooo many attempted. Some are proven, some can't be. With those old timers you can never be sure because their memories aren't good or they're still in 24/7 work mode.

          Anyway, pro wrestling has been "fake" forever. I think historians have gone back to 1885 as far proof it was staged, but most think it's always been that way. But like I said, sometimes there would be someone only looking out for their best interests. Read up on Lou Thesz to get a better understanding of that long lost part of the game.
          xbl gamertag: jiggidyjames72

            Comment

            • Laettner32
              Banned
              • Jul 2002
              • 2873
              #4
              Re: Need Clarification (Wrestling Insiders)

              Could you explain "kayfabe" please. Not sure what it means...

                Comment

                • Hooe
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Aug 2002
                  • 21554
                  #5
                  Re: Need Clarification (Wrestling Insiders)

                  Originally posted by Laettner32
                  Could you explain "kayfabe" please. Not sure what it means...
                  Wikipedia entry of "kayfabe"

                  ...unrelated, what isn't on Wikipedia these days?

                    Comment

                    • jerseyboi2284
                      Pro
                      • Apr 2005
                      • 910
                      #6
                      Re: Need Clarification (Wrestling Insiders)

                      thanks for the answers especially to our in house wrestling "expert" Mr Jiggity himself.

                      and to clarify I'm not saying all shoots are sloppy but I know most of you here can tell a normal planned match as opposed to a shoot especially when the shoot is one sided.

                      Also I can totally understand how some of the older performers had a different mindset "back in the day"

                      EDIT: I can't link the page I was reading, but it states according to a former AJPW performer they had contests that would last until one performer couldn't perform the require spots meaning whoever was worn out first was determined the loser. I don't know how true that is but IMHO it makes a little bit of sense.

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