The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

[Rocky]

Despite how convient the split is for revenue and wrestler rehabiliatation, they really need to end this thing now. Putting Jack Swagger as World Heavyweight Champion was really the breaking point for me.

Things have gotten so disorganized....there is really no main event, mid card, and lower card guys anymore. They are running out of people to put in the main event scene and they are elevating guys who aren't ready.

Imagine a casual fan watching the WWE for the first time in a long time and sees Swagger or Sheamus as the company's champion. These are midcarders masquerading as champions. Fans still really haven't gotten to know these guys. Bret Hart, HBK, Stone Cold, The Rock, even Cena somewhat had brilliant feuds in the undercard before they were elevated.

[55]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

Swagger and Christian had a great feud over the ECW title last year actually. Plus, right after WM and before the draft is always a little mixed up. After the draft, everything will be a lot more organized, I assure you.

[Streets]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

They are running out of people to put in the main event scene and they are elevating guys who aren't ready.

Cena, Batista, Triple H, Orton, CM Punk, Rey Mysterio, Undertaker, Edge, Chris Jericho, Big Show, etc.... yeah, they have no options.

No mid card? MVP, Morrison, Kofi, Bourne, McIntyre, Christian, The Miz, Ziggler, R-Truth, Legacy, etc.

For the lower card they have guys like Masters, Golddust, Yoshi, Ryder, Santino, Carlito, Chavo, Knox, etc.

Imagine a casual fan watching the WWE for the first time in a long time and sees Swagger or Sheamus as the company's champion. These are midcarders masquerading as champions.

Punk was elevated after many mid-card feuds, so was Jeff Hardy, so was Randy Orton, Batista, and Cena (as you said). But, not everybody comes up the same way. I actually like having surprises rather than every wrestler being put over the same way. Angle and Lesnar were put over extremely fast and I loved both of them. I like Swagger and cannot stand Sheamus. However, I'm not going to cry because one guy got a title shot without a lot of buildup in the midcard. He's one out of so many that it's not worth it to me to complain.

New guys have to be brought up. If not, you get a situation like old school WCW or current TNA were Jeff Jarrett, Hulk Hogan, Mick Foley, Hall, Nash, and Flair are battling it out for supremacy (disclaimer: I don't watch TNA and don't know if all of these old guys actually wrestle or if some are managers or something).

[goh]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

Actually it's the perfect example of why it shouldn't end.

Champ...Cena again or Swagger?
I'll take Swagger for something new. Nothing against Cena really but where's that gonna go? Already fueding with Batista again.

[Piderman]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

Stop the Iner-Branding BS. I do not like it. Also get rid of the Unified Tag titles. Its getting stupid for me. After the draft everything will be placed back, like someone said before.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

I would throw a freakin' party if the brand split ended. Seriously, I'm dying for it. Combine the rosters, cut the riff-raff, and kick some ***.

[stlstudios189]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

The only pro for me on ending the split would be that you could extend some stories with two shows a week. However more of the young guys would get buried this way.

[Rocky]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

Cena, Batista, Triple H, Orton, CM Punk, Rey Mysterio, Undertaker, Edge, Chris Jericho, Big Show, etc.... yeah, they have no options.

No mid card? MVP, Morrison, Kofi, Bourne, McIntyre, Christian, The Miz, Ziggler, R-Truth, Legacy, etc.

For the lower card they have guys like Masters, Golddust, Yoshi, Ryder, Santino, Carlito, Chavo, Knox, etc.

Ok, they're split amongst shows though. Unless you're an in-depth fan, you never know who you are going to see in a given night and when you are going to see them. You tune in at the beginning or end of the show and instead of seeing a legitimate star like Rey Mysterio or Triple H...you see Jack Swagger?

Punk was elevated after many mid-card feuds, so was Jeff Hardy, so was Randy Orton, Batista, and Cena (as you said). But, not everybody comes up the same way. I actually like having surprises rather than every wrestler being put over the same way. Angle and Lesnar were put over extremely fast and I loved both of them. I like Swagger and cannot stand Sheamus. However, I'm not going to cry because one guy got a title shot without a lot of buildup in the midcard. He's one out of so many that it's not worth it to me to complain.

Orton and Batista were never really great in the midcard (despite getting carried by the best WWE wrestlers)...not Stone Cold, HBK, Eddie Guererro great. Now the WWE expects them to be great in the main event scene sale shows and it simply isn't happening. Now fans are wishy washy on guys like Orton, Batista, etc. because they were elevated to fast and they have few aces in the hole for two shows (Cena, HHH, Undertaker, Jericho, Mysterio, and maybe Edge).

New guys have to be brought up. If not, you get a situation like old school WCW or current TNA were Jeff Jarrett, Hulk Hogan, Mick Foley, Hall, Nash, and Flair are battling it out for supremacy (disclaimer: I don't watch TNA and don't know if all of these old guys actually wrestle or if some are managers or something).

I thought old school WCW had it perfect in their hey-dey. You knew the main event guys from the beginning...Hogan, Flair, Sting, Savage, The Giant, The Outsiders. You had your upper midcarders, midcarders, and lower midcarders. WCW's problem is that they didn't elevate the guys who were brilliant in the midcard (Goldberg being the exception) and kept guys in the main event that people didn't want to see.

But it's clear that Cena, Mysterio, Taker are the guys fans what to see....just look at the ratings of their segments and merchandising numbers. They're so many ways you can work these guys though with the brand split.

[Streets]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

Ok, they're split amongst shows though. Unless you're an in-depth fan, you never know who you are going to see in a given night and when you are going to see them. You tune in at the beginning or end of the show and instead of seeing a legitimate star like Rey Mysterio or Triple H...you see Jack Swagger?



Orton and Batista were never really great in the midcard (despite getting carried by the best WWE wrestlers)...not Stone Cold, HBK, Eddie Guererro great. Now the WWE expects them to be great in the main event scene sale shows and it simply isn't happening. Now fans are wishy washy on guys like Orton, Batista, etc. because they were elevated to fast and they have few aces in the hole for two shows (Cena, HHH, Undertaker, Jericho, Mysterio, and maybe Edge).



I thought old school WCW had it perfect in their hey-dey. You knew the main event guys from the beginning...Hogan, Flair, Sting, Savage, The Giant, The Outsiders. You had your upper midcarders, midcarders, and lower midcarders. WCW's problem is that they didn't elevate the guys who were brilliant in the midcard (Goldberg being the exception) and kept guys in the main event that people didn't want to see.

But it's clear that Cena, Mysterio, Taker are the guys fans what to see....just look at the ratings of their segments and merchandising numbers. They're so many ways you can work these guys though with the brand split.

The thing about guys like Triple H, Undertaker, and Cena is that they don't need the belt to be successful or to get over. These guys can put other people over without the strap. Look at what Triple H is doing for Sheamus (though Sheamus lost, he'll eventually get over on him), or what he and HBK did for the tag division with re-uniting DX. The guys that people want to see will still usually open and end the show even if they don't have the strap, and their merchandise will still fly off the shelves.

I agree about Batista in the mid card as he was basically Evolution's enforcer until he was fed up with Triple H and beat him for the strap. Orton... I totally disagree with on all counts (though I should preface this with he's my favorite wrestler). He was a member of Evolution, had a great hardcore feud with Mick Foley, did the whole Legend Killer gimmick, and he was the longest reigning IC champion in 7 years (that's the definition of getting established in the midcard).

After his face run and very brief title run, he went back to the midcard and had an awesome feud with Taker, and did the whole Rated RKO thing. I don't think fans are lukewarm about Orton as he was the best heel in the WWE for a while and is now super-over as a face. I think he's doing fine.

The WWE can combine brands, and stick with their "aces in the hole" but then they run the WCW risk of keeping the same people in the main event without elevating people in the midcard (I never watched WCW, but didn't Y2J, Benoit, Rey Mysterio, Guerrero, and Austin all work for WCW and not hit main event status while there, only to get well deserved pushes while in WWE?).

Also, you talk a lot about the casual fan being turned off seeing Swagger as champ. Honestly, I don't care about the casual fan. All I care about is if I'm entertained. Is someone else wants the same old face that they know from the 80's being in the main event night in, and night out, and if they want one roster, well... there are other shows for them. That's all I'm saying.

[goh]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

The WWE can combine brands, and stick with their "aces in the hole" but then they run the WCW risk of keeping the same people in the main event without elevating people in the midcard (I never watched WCW, but didn't Y2J, Benoit, Rey Mysterio, Guerrero, and Austin all work for WCW and not hit main event status while there, only to get well deserved pushes while in WWE?).

That and every possible fued for the "aces in the hole" has already been done,possibly twice.

Rey and Eddie were in the crusier division so even though they weren't main event they were often the highlight of the show. Austin had a nice tag run with Pillman but didn't main event solo though I believe he did have some TV and US title runs. Benoit did hit main event status just before he left and by just before I mean 1 day.

Bret Hart November 21, 1999 Toronto Canada
Bret Hart Decmeber 21, 1999 Baltimore MD Vacated Dec 21/99
Chris Benoit January 16, 2000 Cincinnatti OH Stripped Jan 17/00 for jumping to WWF
Sid January 24, 2000 Los Angeles CA Stripped Jan 26/00 by Kevin Nash
Sid January 26, 2000 Las Vegas NV Apr 10/00: Bischoff strips all champions

What a mess that was.
I still remember Benoit was actually stripped because when he beat Sid with the crossface Sid's foot was under the rope.

[The GIGGAS]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

I think my problem with ending the brand split is that so many of the wrestlers that are low in the card that have a lot of potential will get sent back down to developmental, or get cut. I say keep it, because WWE are being forced to create new stars all the time.

That being said, I would change a few things: split the Unifed Titles, and eliminate the Divas championship. Bring back the WWE Cruiserweight Championship (because seriously, Rey/Funaki can be entertaining too, and who wouldn't want to see Rey/Yoshi Tatsu? I mean, what happened to Yoshi? He's literally gone). So basically go back a couple years in which championships are available. I'd also like it if the Miz actually defended his US Championship. It seems like 4 championships are actually available to win on a given night, when it should be more like 8.

That's just my opinion.

[goh]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

There's not enough tag teams to split the titles and not enough crusier weights to bring that title back either.

Yoshi is on Raw. He won the pre-WM battle royal.

[The GIGGAS]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

There's not enough tag teams to split the titles and not enough crusier weights to bring that title back either.

Yoshi is on Raw. He won the pre-WM battle royal.

Honestly, I think if the WWE made an effort, it could figure out how to put together a couple of tag team divisions, I honestly do. They have enough people that aren't being used on a weekly basis that they could team up with other wrestlers to do something with, like Masters, Bourne, Henry, Primo, Marella (I love his interactions with the guest host, but really), Kozlov, Regal, Ryder, Tatsu... and that's just on RAW!

I also have a hard time believing that there aren't at least 8 cruiserweights sitting on both brands. You've got Bourne, Tyson Kidd, Rey, Hardy, Funaki, JTG, Wang Yang, Ryder, Primo, Chavo. Honestly, if you move up the restriction to 220, you get yourself at least 3 more. That's at least 13 wrestlers. That's a more than sizable Cruiserweight division, even if Rey, Kidd, and Bourne are doing something else at the time. It just reeks of the WWE being lazy and saying "You know what, this championship means nothing and we don't want to worry about it any more." Also, they put it on Hornswaggle to kill it.

Basically, you're telling me Tatsu has gotten himself lost in the fold, something that might not have happened if he could find a tag team to be a part of.

[SmashMan]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

It seems like 4 championships are actually available to win on a given night, when it should be more like 8.

That's just my opinion.

See, I think 8 is too many. I like the Unified Tag Titles because there isn't enough tag depth to support two sets of belts. They could just create more tag teams to fill our the shows, but then we'd end up with more random teams than we have now and it would be bad too.

I'd like it if they kept the split and scaled back on belts to have:

WWE Champion (appears on both brands, Undisputed Champ style)
United States Champion
Intercontinental Champion
Unified Tag Team
Unified Women's

The only problem with that is deciding who the WWE Champion would feud with and how it would impact the "off" brand (in terms of main storylines) while he was occupied. You could build the IC and US titles to headline their specific brand in that time, I guess, but it'd be a delicate balance between unoccupied main eventers and building up new guys. The Tag Titles are good as-is for aforementioned reasons, and the Women don't need two belts.

I could go for the Cruiserweight being brought back, with the division you used as your example.

[goh]

Re: The past Smackdown is the perfect reason why they need to end the brand split...

But they'd be back to throwing random guys together for those tag teams. That fails more than it works.

I think they'd be better off bringing back the Hardcore title than the Crusier. Maybe make up a new one for people that have been there less than 3-5 years.