How to make this into a wrestling game...

[ceeejay]

....instead of a fighting game.

Its so simple. All wrestling games need is to have in-depth user changable
match objectives.

Each match will have objectives that can be set randomly (by universe or
whatever) or set by the user. The tougher you want the match to be, the
more objectives you add.

The key is, that if you dont meet all the match objectives then your oponent wil kick out eveytime. This will bring in the 'show' element of wresting while keeping the challenge by you still having to fight to
achieve them.

Examples.....

If I'm fighting a jobber then my objective might be:

1. Work the crowd (get a reaction from the crowd by doing a strong
grapple or whatever would be programmed to be cheer worthy)
2. Taunt.
3. signature.
4. Finisher.

If I'm in the main even at wrestlemania...........

1. Put opponent through both announcer tables.
2. Hit them with 3 different weapon types (you can change to any
number)
3. Make them bleed.
4. Any match specific objectives (put them though cage/table etc)
5. 100 percent damage to 'x' body part/s.
6. Work the crowd 'x' amount of times. (maybe a crowd meter would help)
7. 'x' amount of signatures.
8. Finisher (or two or three!)

These objectives can be comleted in any order but the finisher must be done last or your opponent will kick out after it. Heels will have objectives
to match aswell, they can finish a fight with a 'devastating weapon attack'
rather than a finisher as they sometimes do.

The above are only some objective example and Im sure there could be some very cool ones. I think a system like this would make wrestling games like wrestling an allow you to have the slobber knockers that you
see on TV without having to force them.

This would be optional like the stamina system as it may not be for eveyone.

I'm not really into online, but as far as offline goes, I think this would
make universe and CAS perfect for wrestling game fans.

EDIT!!

Forgot to add........some people might get peeved if they had an awsome war and finally hit the finisher
but didnt get the pin because they missed something seeminglly minor.

This could be fixed by you being able to determine if an objective is major or minor. Majors are required to pin and minors will help you work the crowd and boost the status of your match. You can change any objectives to major or minor as you see fit.

You could set objectives for the AI too.

[Steven547]

Re: How to make this into a wrestling game...

I'd agree that adding a little "user intervention" would help, but honestly, none of that should be required. It should already be in the game. We shouldn't have to worry about doing so many moves first, etc. It reminds me of the NHL 11 game where some people say "I pass the puck 5 times before shooting."

The user is doing this to make the game more real for them, when it should have been designed that way. How is a game fun when you know you can beat it at any moment, but you decide to "cheat" the system (basically cheating yourself) to have fun with it?

I just realized tonight there is no weight detection or strength attribute in the game. So does this mean if I play as a DIVA against say Big Show, I'm not allowed to use body slam? These things should already be programmed into the game. Especially weight detection...it's a HUGE part of wrestling. How THQ forgot about it again, I'll never know.

I'm having fun with this game, when it comes to CPU vs CPU or just feeling like pulverizing the CPU myself. I'm now playing on Legend (and I'm no good at these games) but I beat Triple H, as Santino, with a body slam! Really?? Then I watched a Cena vs Sheamus match, and Cena won by.....body slam. It reminded me of when I saw the first Lord of the Rings, and the movie "suddenly" ended. You sat there with this "huh...it's over" look on your face.

Maybe we need to adjust the attributes (reduce strike and grapple down by 40 each per user suggestions) to make things better. Who knows? But we shouldn't have to go to these extremes to enjoy a game.

[ceeejay]

Re: How to make this into a wrestling game...

My above post was not meant as a desperate measure or last resort. It is
how I think wrestling games should be.

You would never win or lose via body slam and the matches would would feel unforced because you are constantly working. Giving the AI objectives
to work for might help them to be less painful too. As it is matches end
quickly because you have nothing left to do, unless you force it.

I think THQ needs to let go of a little kayfabe and give us a little control
so we can re-create the drama we see in wrestling matches, because thats
what is all about. I

[Fiddy]

Re: How to make this into a wrestling game...

That's how my buddies and I used to play all the wrestling games in the past.

We had to hit all the strong and weak grapple moves at least once. A running strike and grapple off of the ropes. A few taunts and couldnt attempt a pin unless you hit your finisher. Also couldn't attempt to pin unless after a finisher or hit with a weapon. It made for some great matches.

[ceeejay]

Re: How to make this into a wrestling game...

That's how my buddies and I used to play all the wrestling games in the past.

We had to hit all the strong and weak grapple moves at least once. A running strike and grapple off of the ropes. A few taunts and couldnt attempt a pin unless you hit your finisher. Also couldn't attempt to pin unless after a finisher or hit with a weapon. It made for some great matches.

Exactly. It would not be hard to implement either, and we could be
having those same great matches anytime we want against the AI.

LOWM had some cool objectives but if you didnt complete them you could
still pin, it just said you failed afterward, which totally sucked. Also
you could not choose or edit them. It does show that it is feasable to
have them in at least.

[Jukeman]

Re: How to make this into a wrestling game...

Its easy...

Just remove damage (keep physical/cosmetic damages that will limit the superstar)

And make the game be all about momentum

Similar to the old games but better

As I thought, momentum in SvR does nothing but builds up a finisher...

How nice would it be for the AI to hit a desperate top rope move on ou after you set him up for a top rope suplex only for the momentum to swing his way and he tries to go for a quick pin only for you to kick out at a 2 count?

Having damage drain like a normal fighter then hide it () while jacking up the AI's reversal rate doesnt make up for back and forth matches...

Having the game based on momentum that swings back and forth thru out a match does...

[woodjer]

Re: How to make this into a wrestling game...

I had this same basic idea for Legends of Wrestlemania
http://www.operationsports.com/vBull...r-legends.html

While that game gets pretty "arcadey" after a while, I had a ton of fun playing the different Wrestlemania matches with their goals/objectives. In fact, I'm wondering if that was the inspiration for your idea (LoW, that is) since it sounds a lot like those matches.

I don't know how I feel about the idea of having to do all of the objectives in order to get a pinfall but here is my thought:

Set a hidden point value for each potential objective. So, let's say putting an opponent through a table is 50 pts, landing a strike is 1 pt. Once you complete one objective, you don't get points for it again in the match. This would help to prevent someone from just landing punch after punch to rack up points. Now, you could make an objective be something like "land 5 strikes in a row" or "execute 4 ground grapples" so there would be some reason to do something again. The idea is just to encourage someone to diversify the moves they use. The point value would vary from match to match and you could even have objectives tied to a superstar, match, opponent, feud, or a combination of things so one strategy wouldn't automatically win every time. For example, strikes might be worth more points in a street fight than in a submission match. If you wanted to take it even further, you could have this idea carry over throughout a career or feud...so if you always use the same three moves to set up a finisher, they eventually lose their value point-wise and would need to be given a break to recharge.

Once that part is done, you (or Universe) set three levels of total points for the match...Level 1 means that you had a boring win or lost a boring or mediocre match so you drop in the rankings. Level 2 means that you won a mediocre match or lost a great match and you stay at the same point in the rankings. Level 3 means that you won a great match or lost an outstanding match and you move up. Maybe you even have sub-levels within each to indicate how far you move up or down. Of course, the point levels change based on the match so a mid-card Superstars match might require 15 pts for level 3 but a Wrestlemania main event might require 100 or more. Likewise, they could be different for each person in a match so a rookie would need 10 pts in a win over Cena for it to be considered a great match but Cena might need 75 or something.

In the end, you get some type of feedback to let you know if there was something more that you could have done or what things gave you the most points...anything that would allow you to evaluate how the match went. The objectives would never be tied into whether or not you could win but beating somebody by spamming the same move over and over would be less valuable than losing to somebody but having an exciting back-and-forth match.

Anyway, obviously I like where you're going with the objective idea. These are just some things that went through my head after re-visiting this idea. Crazy thing is, I haven't even had a chance to open my copy yet!

[ceeejay]

Re: How to make this into a wrestling game...

Yeah, I guess LOW did influence my idea, but it was more the potenial I saw in it than anything else.

I like your number system Idea, that is really cool. How cool would it be
to having rankings based on putting on good fights aswell as who you
beat. It would add depth.

I think your points system would work well, but I would still like to have to do a finisher or weapon/dirty/doubleteam attack to finish or the opponent will kick out. I hate knowing I can end the fight anytime I feel like it after
any move once Ive done enough damage. Thats not pro wrestling, thats fighting.

[woodjer]

Re: How to make this into a wrestling game...

I think adding a match rating system into it to determine rankings would be awesome. If it were a combination of wins, match ratings, opponents, and a few other things, I think you'd see more people playing it as a wrestling game instead of a fighting game. If you're 100-0 but never put on a good match or every one ends in a cheap punch, you're sure not going to be moving up the rankings very fast, if at all. You wouldn't have to force a finisher on people for the win since a lot of them would probably figure out what makes a good ending pretty quickly. Plus, that's why you would have some sort of feedback screen after each match.

As someone mentioned in another thread (or maybe it was another site), what makes this type of thing challenging for a game like this is that it's trying to take something that is really scripted (and sometimes predictable) IRL and make it a sports game that is unpredictable. In other words, you're taking something "fake" in the real world and trying to make it "real" in a fake one. Ok, I think I just pulled a brain muscle trying to think too hard about that concept...

[threattonature]

Re: How to make this into a wrestling game...

I love the idea of match ratings and the points system. I would even love something built in that the more times you use a move in a match the more likely it is to be reversed.

In human vs human matches with friends it was a running grapple and strike contest basically. I thinkthe user could be rewarded with mixing up the offense more and get a higher match rating by doing as much.

[goh]

Re: How to make this into a wrestling game...

The goal thing is actually in the game. It's in someone's RtWM. It was of no help at all. It made the match slightly longer but that's all. Didn't make the match or gameplay better.