Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

[simgamer0005]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

I think an Iron Man match between Punk and Bryan would be a way for WWE to reward them for making where they are. Something to say thank you to the fans who watch each week and appreciate quality ring work.

Fair point, and i think this is a good discussion. i think my view has to do with the fact that i just don't see Punk vs Bryan as on the same level of wrestlers that were in the great ironman matches in the past, the ones we remember.

Not for nothing, but I find the feud between Punk and Bryan interesting. The whole involvement of Kane and AJ has me intrigued. The things just starting so lets see where it goes.

Yeah it's a tough one, because i think that, to some extent, they are entertaining compared to the other superstars of today. for some reason, many people resonate with Punk and support him 100% based upon his former character. and an ironman match would be a way for WWE to thank them for their work, by giving them the spotlight for 60 minutes. i think with Daniel Bryan, you either like him or you don't. I personally find him annoying, and by the way i didn't always. when he was on NXT i found him funny. (hey booker T agrees with this view by the way, he used to say good things about Bryan until he turned "heel")

[TheShizNo1]

You know, those were the guy's personas right? Like, their themes.

So like, those Yes chants don't mean anything? Last summer w/ Punk getting louder pops than Orton and Cena mean nothing?

[goh]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

[simgamer0005]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

You know, those were the guy's personas right? Like, their themes.

So like, those Yes chants don't mean anything? Last summer w/ Punk getting louder pops than Orton and Cena mean nothing?

You're right that last summer Punk was getting louder pops than Orton or Cena. I actually thought that Punk last summer was a great character. Punk also got heat for his SES gimmick. actually i thought the whole SES thing in 2009-2010 was some of the most entertaining stuff in WWE. Serena was hot and that was really an exciting time in WWE. Shaving people's heads, the fued with Rey Mysterio. that was all good stuff. So i definitely give Punk a lot of credit. The problem i have with Punk is that once he became champ, he kinda lost that "going against the establishment" persona he had. he changed his theme song to cult of personality and he's basically been the champ since. So the pops that Punk got last summer definitely mean something. They were great. I actually miss that Punk, and I miss the SES as well. It's just that the current Punk doesn't get the same reaction from the crowd. he doesn't get heat (like in SES) or pops (like last summer vs Cena). it's like Punk is just there and the crowd is kinda neutral to him.

With Punk vs Bryan, I think the crowd is confused seriously. like some people in the crowd chant YES YES YES, others probably find Bryan annoying. Some love Punk, some might be indifferent to Punk. And the YES YES YES chants is a reaction, it's just so ridiculously repetitive. it's to the point where all Daniel Bryan says is YES YES YES all the time. he doesn't have a character other than saying YES YES YES. it's almost like Daniel Bryan's way of just getting a reaction from the crowd without having to be creative. i mean the SES, for example, that was actually sort of sophisticated in a way. like we never really saw something like that before. Daniel Bryan hasn't had a storyline like that, instead he's just this guy that goes around blaming his girlfriend for everything, treating her like crap, then starts chanting YES YES YES. i mean where's the sophisticated WWE writer genius with that? saying YES YES YES all the time, where's the creative writing in that? Is YES YES YES a classic wrestling catch phrase? i mean when you compare Bryan's repeating YES over and over again to the great mic work and catch phrases of guys in the attitude era that really tried hard to entertain week in week out, and say funny things, good comebacks and stuff you know, that made you laugh and what not. to me saying YES over and over again almost like taking an easy way out. getting a reaction without having to think. i still don't get how this guy gets over by saying YES over and over again. i see it almost as like an insult to great wrestlers in the past that actually had a real wrestling persona that you really cared about.

[nWo]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

Punk and Bryan are literally the two best options WWE has right now if they wanted to do an Ironman Match. If you want a big figure in there, it doesn't matter if you throw in Ryback, Brodus Clay or Big Show. They're all going to be ready to pass out after 20 minutes. Just because a guy is big and can overpower people doesn't mean he's a great choice for an Ironman Match.

[simgamer0005]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

Punk and Bryan are literally the two best options WWE has right now if they wanted to do an Ironman Match. If you want a big figure in there, it doesn't matter if you throw in Ryback, Brodus Clay or Big Show. They're all going to be ready to pass out after 20 minutes. Just because a guy is big and can overpower people doesn't mean he's a great choice for an Ironman Match.

Well Big Show might pass out after 10 mins. he's also older and way past his prime as a wrestler. Big Show would not be a candidate for an ironman match at all. i don't think Brodus Clay's character is serious enough for an ironman. Ryback could probably go longer but i agree just because a guy is big and can overpower doesn't mean he's a great choice for an ironman. he's just at the moment probably the best unstoppable force we have now. even Lesner in 2003 was tired as heck and barely made it to the final bell but that was part of what made it so entertaining. Cena against Orton in the ironman of 2009 looked passed out for a good half an hour, during that match then miraculously became re-engergized and became super Cena in the final 10 mins. obviously acting like you are tired is part of wrestling ironman or not, so it's kind of hard to say really how much stamina these guys have. i mean take a look at Punk in his last few matches. after 5 minutes or so, Punk looks like he can barely climb the ropes. again part of that is acting like you are hurt, to sell the moves. so even CM Punk gets hit with a move, and then is lying on the canvas for 20 seconds, looking like he's passed out before he gets up.

I think some good candidates for Ironman matches are...
-Dolph Ziggler : tremendous athlete and a good worker and could probably do a great ironman match if they booked him right
-Sheamus : strong brawler could make for an entertaining ironman
-Cena : it was his idea to have an ironman with Orton and i think against the right opponent could be in a good ironman

each of those guys could do a good ironman. i think Punk vs Ziggler in a 60 minute ironman could be very good with the right buildup. but i just am not sure WWE would put Ziggler in a fued with Punk to begin with.

in some ways Punk vs Bryan might be the best option given current storylines, but i just don't think this fued to have any substance at all. i think it has to do with Daniel Bryan's character, which seems lacking in many areas. this is why ironmans are such a rare match. to have one you really have to have great characters who are entertaining and would keep you glued to your TV for all 60 minutes. (like past ironmans have been) i think really is that currently we don't really have two guys in a real heated worthwhile fued that could conceivably lead to an ironman. maybe we'll have to wait a few more years until someone really great comes along to give us an ironman. at the moment, WWE is not very good, i'm just being honest. in the past few years, there have been times where it has been very good. i think most people would agree that sometimes WWE gets stale, but then right when you're about to give up on it, it gets good again. with raw going to 3 hours soon, i for one hope it starts getting good again!

[55]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

When in the hell did good matches between great guys in the ring, need a feud?

I don't remember if HBK and Bret were feuding before WMXII
I don't remember the feud between Razor Ramon and HBK

or

How The Rock fit in the triple threat match at Summer Slam 01

or

Steamboat and Savage's feud

I mean seriously.......

Steamboat and Savage actually had a really good, lengthy feud. You don't remember Savage crushing Steamboat's windpipe with the ring bell from the top rope while he was draped over the guardrail? Then Steamboat's big comeback, etc. etc.

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[TracerBullet]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

I think an Iron Man match between Punk and Bryan would be a way for WWE to reward them for making where they are. Something to say thank you to the fans who watch each week and appreciate quality ring work.

Not for nothing, but I find the feud between Punk and Bryan interesting. The whole involvement of Kane and AJ has me intrigued. The things just starting so lets see where it goes.

I don't mind Kane's introduction into this feud as much as I thought I would. I do know that he will hinder what all they do in their match though somewhat, but I don't think it ruins it at all. I do wish they both had a little more mic time.

Also I feel like some people make the Yes!ing out to be more rampant than it really is.

[Molarmite]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

You know the outcomes are pre-determined, right?

Woah, we have a spoiler thread for this kind of news!

[simgamer0005]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

I don't mind Kane's introduction into this feud as much as I thought I would. I do know that he will hinder what all they do in their match though somewhat, but I don't think it ruins it at all. I do wish they both had a little more mic time.

why doesn't Kane fight Daniel Bryan in a hell in a cell at No Way Out? Since that has actually some genuine tension. ask yourself this, in wrestling terms based upon stuff that has happened in recent weeks, who has more reason to actually be angry at Bryan, Punk or Kane? To me, the answer is clearly Kane. Who actually cost Kane a chance at the WHC by threatening Kane with a steel chair? D Bryan. That's another thing with Bryan. he's been interfering with other matches a lot. and the other time he hit Kane with a steel chair then made Kane think that Punk hit him with the chair. I mean, most people don't really mess around with Kane like D Bryan has been doing. So Kane has a legitimate gripe with D Bryan. I would look forward to a Kane vs Bryan hell in a cell match. that would be a fun match to watch wouldn't it? instead you have Bryan continue to fued with Punk. So now Bryan beat Punk in a non title match. or even like on raw last night, instead of Punk vs Bryan in a non title match, another option could be to have Kane vs Bryan on raw. look at Bryan's matches when he was WHC against the Big Show. i think all of D Bryan's WHC retentions were via countout, DQ, or escaping the cage. i don't think any of his WHC matches were retained via pinfall or submission. if it's a normal match vs Kane Bryan will eventually just run away that's why you gotta have Kane vs Bryan in the hell in a cell.

Also I feel like some people make the Yes!ing out to be more rampant than it really is.

come on man. every ring introduction, it's Daniel Bryan walking out...YES, then he turns his to body to the side and starts skipping his way down the ramp chanting YES YES YES repeatedly all the way down to the ring. (in every match he is in) then during the match, after he does a big move, YES YES, when he's waiting for his opponent to get up, YES YES YES. after he wins a match, YES YES YES YES YES YES. even during promos Daniel Bryan has started asking himself rhetorical questions just so he can answer his own question by saying YES repeatedly. i don't know how you can deny how rampant it is. his entire gimmick has become just saying YES at every conceivable chance he gets.

[TracerBullet]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

why doesn't Kane fight Daniel Bryan in a hell in a cell at No Way Out? Since that has actually some genuine tension. ask yourself this, in wrestling terms based upon stuff that has happened in recent weeks, who has more reason to actually be angry at Bryan, Punk or Kane? To me, the answer is clearly Kane. Who actually cost Kane a chance at the WHC by threatening Kane with a steel chair? D Bryan. That's another thing with Bryan. he's been interfering with other matches a lot. and the other time he hit Kane with a steel chair then made Kane think that Punk hit him with the chair. I mean, most people don't really mess around with Kane like D Bryan has been doing. So Kane has a legitimate gripe with D Bryan. I would look forward to a Kane vs Bryan hell in a cell match. that would be a fun match to watch wouldn't it? instead you have Bryan continue to fued with Punk. So now Bryan beat Punk in a non title match. or even like on raw last night, instead of Punk vs Bryan in a non title match, another option could be to have Kane vs Bryan on raw. look at Bryan's matches when he was WHC against the Big Show. i think all of D Bryan's WHC retentions were via countout, DQ, or escaping the cage. i don't think any of his WHC matches were retained via pinfall or submission. if it's a normal match vs Kane Bryan will eventually just run away that's why you gotta have Kane vs Bryan in the hell in a cell.

Yes, let's just ignore Punk tapping at OTL. Punk doesn't have to be mad at DB, DB is upset that he still lost even though he won a second later. Punk can't even refute that he tapped, but he can still brag about winning. He cost Kane a chance at the WH title, but what better way to screw with the guy who cost you that title than to screw up his chances at the title and possibly win it yourself? Also, if I'm Punk, I'm still probably not too happy about DB getting Kane to attack me right before my big title match against him.

come on man. every ring introduction, it's Daniel Bryan walking out...YES, then he turns his to body to the side and starts skipping his way down the ramp chanting YES YES YES repeatedly all the way down to the ring. (in every match he is in) then during the match, after he does a big move, YES YES, when he's waiting for his opponent to get up, YES YES YES. after he wins a match, YES YES YES YES YES YES. even during promos Daniel Bryan has started asking himself rhetorical questions just so he can answer his own question by saying YES repeatedly. i don't know how you can deny how rampant it is. his entire gimmick has become just saying YES at every conceivable chance he gets.

The people complaining are saying that they can't watch his matches because of it even though he really doesn't say it too much after he reaches the ring. You're telling me that they can't watch a match because he said it a few times beforehand? His promos and entrance, I understand (though it's not a big deal to me and I think people really didn't mind it until the night after WM.) them hating if they hate him saying it. In ring though, if you can't look past that I think you're just nitpicking honestly.

[simgamer0005]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

Yes, let's just ignore Punk tapping at OTL. Punk doesn't have to be mad at DB, DB is upset that he still lost even though he won a second later. Punk can't even refute that he tapped, but he can still brag about winning. He cost Kane a chance at the WH title, but what better way to screw with the guy who cost you that title than to screw up his chances at the title and possibly win it yourself? Also, if I'm Punk, I'm still probably not too happy about DB getting Kane to attack me right before my big title match against him

D Bryan was pinned by Punk while D Bryan had a submission applied. Bryan was pinned 1-2-3, at that point the match was over. Punk then tapped to urge the ref to break the submission hold. In wrestling terms, Bryan was so focused on the submission that he forgot about kicking out of the pin. Punk's not to happy about getting attacked by Kane, but Punk also picked up the chair and was standing there right next to Kane. In that situation I thought Kane was more angry at Bryan than Punk was. Daniel Bryan hit Kane with a steal chair in the first place. Bryan's been interfering in a lot matches. A triple threat match might actually be good then maybe Punk and Kane could work together. but then what would happen is once Bryan is thrown outside the ring eventually Punk and Kane would start fighting. then eventually they'd get tired and D Bryan would just wait until they fall down to jump in the ring and break up a pinfall and try to steal a win. and that would be a predictable and crappy way for Punk to lose his WWE title he's held for all this time through a triple threat.

The people complaining are saying that they can't watch his matches because of it even though he really doesn't say it too much after he reaches the ring. You're telling me that they can't watch a match because he said it a few times beforehand? His promos and entrance, I understand (though it's not a big deal to me and I think people really didn't mind it until the night after WM.) them hating if they hate him saying it. In ring though, if you can't look past that I think you're just nitpicking honestly.

well i wouldn't go that far to say his matches are unwatchable, but i will say when i watched raw i fast forwarded through DB's ring walk and after he pinned Punk, because i can tell when he's about to say YES and i knew that the YES's were coming. it's not really a big deal, i mean at first it was kind of funny, but now it's just like it's always about to happen. and i get that some of the fans chant YES right along with him, but it's getting a little cheesy if you ask me. i get that once he finally won the WHC it was like YES i finally made it in WWE. YES i finally became the champ. but like then he lost the title and was still saying yes. what was he saying YES for after he lost the title? YES "i'm good" YES "this is really happening i'm daniel bryan and i'm a wrestler" YES "everything is amazing" YES "i know over 100 submission moves". he even changed the name of the lebell lock to the YES lock, and every he locks it in it's YES YES YES.

[Bellsprout]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot



All together now...

"AWWWWW!"

[jvalverde88]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

All together now...

"AWWWWW!"

You mean:

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[Rocky]

Re: Raw 05/28/12 - Heyman nice shot

I disagree with some of simgamer's points but agree with his general premise alot. Some of these gimmick matches should only be used to blow off long fueds or build epic matches we have all wanted to see. A Punk/Bryan ironman (or Hell in a Cell or Last Man Standing for that matter) just doesn't have the depth that has fans dying to see it.

I would've liked to see a Jericho/Punk ironman match with Jericho beating Punk in earlier matches, taking his title, jeopardizing his straight edge lifestyle, and then Punk coming in fighting for his life during the ironman match. Heck, HBK/Hart had been building for YEARS before there match.