Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

[PVarck31]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

Charlotte is not being shoved down our throats. She is the top women's heel in the company. She is getting the exact reaction that they intended. She has a real connection with the fans. A good comparison is The Miz. People boo this crap out of him he's all over Smackdown, but his character is getting the intended reaction.

Roman Reigns is different. The only connection with the crowd he has is that they can't stand him. They've tried for over two years to get him over as a face. Putting him against the top heels time and time again. Putting him over in the main event of WM against the ultimate heel in HHH. And he still isn't over as a face. That is the very definition of shoving him down our throats.

The fans don't want Roman Reigns as a top face. Period. That's not saying he isn't decent in the ring or his ability isn't where it needs to be. It's just simply a case of him not being able to get over. I've never seen a wrestler given more chances to get over.

[UFCMPunk]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

I don't think it's shoving anyone down our throats. It's more a case of them not doing much of anything with the women that aren't fighting for the title on Raw. You can't take her off tv in favor of Dana Brooke or Nia Jax and I don't think they know what to do with Charlotte if she isn't in a title match

This exactly. What was the point of bringing up Bayley after Summer Slam? What about the point of drafting Nia Jax to RAW? I truly think what made matters worse about this was the hot potato game with the Women's Championship that sadly continued tonight. That also shows us that championship rematch clauses suck. Remember #GiveDivasAChance? Well... how about give the rest of the RAW Women's Division a Chance.

Also the fact as you said they don't know what to do with Charlotte if she isn't in a title match basically keeps showing the fans how bad the writing team is. If they don't know the basics of a championship feud, an under card feud to get someone ready for the championship feud, something is terribly wrong.

Look at SD... Becky vs Alexa as the championship feud, then Nikki/Carmella as the under card. Granted they have thrown in Nattie as well but still at least they utilize ALL their Women talent.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

I'm tired of this women's title hot potato **** and even more tired of Banks being on the short end of it. Only way I'll accept this is if it turns into her snapping or and becoming a heel.

I'm actually pretty tired of raw altogether:

Rusev deserves better; screw this singles Enzo and Cass crap.
Tag match was awesome.
Was distracted for much of the Jericho/Rollins match by SNF.
**** who's ever writing for the women's division.
I assume the main event wasn't bad?

RAWs PPVs are nothing more than their Monday night shows. Is this what it was like during the original brand split? Smackdown just running circles around raw with booking?


Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[reyes the roof]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

I try not to over think things and just enjoy what I'm watching, but how do you have the babyface/neutral GM feed Zayn to Strowman as punishment for losing an IC Title match because of interference, yet Jericho ruins every title match Owens has with no consequence? More guys need to get fed to Strowman as punishment

[Streets]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

My thoughts:

Tag title match was great. Well-booked, a lot of near falls where it could have been over, and a creative ending. Cesaro hugging New Day was a great moment. I know they got a little stale by the end but I loved me some New Day. Always seemed to be genuinely having fun out there and it was infectious. Great well-deserved run!

I thought Strowman-Sami was well booked and it elevated Sami without hurting Strowman. Braun destroyed Sami but he had a little burst at the end and was able to survive. The bit on Raw Talk was great where Sami said it was a hollow victory as he wants the pin. Also liked him saying he's just as good as Reigns and Owens. I normally don't care about Sami but that was a great promo and great way to keep the feud going.

Sasha-Charlotte was a great match except Sasha being unable to hold on for literally a second and a half to win the title. As for the game of Hot Potato, I feel like they wanted to make history with Charlotte having an undefeated record at PPVs (which if it keeps going could rival Takers streak and be more impressive because it's not just Mania, though I can't see it sustaining). I don't think she should have lost the title as much as she did on the road to her record-setting year (funny she talked about her dad's 16 reigns being unimpressive because he lost a lot) but I'm cool with them giving a feat like this to one of the women and putting them over. So I'm in the minority on the title swapping.

Jericho-Rollins sucked because it was a literal repeat of Jericho's match with Reigns beat by beat. Jericho doing well, "face" comes back, Owens interferes, actually helps Jericho, Jericho angry he's out there at all loses focus and can't capitalize, turns around into finisher as Owens walks away angry. Meh.

I thought Owens-Reigns was a great match until the ending. I hate non-finishes or DQ endings on PPVs (to end the show no less!) but damn if I didn't jump off my seat when Jericho handed Owens the belt with a smile. The Y2J-Owens reunion was my favorite part of the show, lol. Definitely has me excited for Monday.

I feel like the Shield reunion is kind of played out. My gf pointed out it seems like they are doing this all the time (the spike powerbomb) and it's losing its luster. That said, taking it back to a nostalgic time before Roman was hated and pairing him with his Shield brother(s) seems to be the only way to semi get him over with the crowd.

I really feel that Roman should have dropped the title to Jericho. Jericho deserves to be rewarded for his work and honestly would do a lot more with the title and for the title than Reigns has.

Overall a much better PPV than I expected. I agree Smackdown's writers are much better. It feels like there's too much "waiting for big moments" on Raw (like HHH, Brock, Goldberg, etc. returning) and they are just filling space in the interim. The one thing they got right is putting the strap on Owens as he has been KILLING it. But that's a testament to his amazing work more than the booking/writing. You could literally have put any body in Romans place and Jericho and Owens would kill it all the same. I've never had a wrestler whom my favorite move of theirs is a resthold, but damn if Owens doesn't crack me up every time he locks one in and starts talking. I agree with whoever said Raw has more talent but SD gets WAY more out of their talent and utilizes more of their roster. That about sums it up for me.

[redsox4evur]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

RAWs PPVs are nothing more than their Monday night shows. Is this what it was like during the original brand split? Smackdown just running circles around raw with booking?

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

Yea pretty much in what I have seen in 2002. The WHC on Raw is alright with HBK coming back at the end of the year. And the first WHC feud was HHH-Kane and Katie Vick angle. And then at Survivor Series it was the first ever Elimination Chamber that had HHH, RVD, HBK, Booker T, Jericho and Kane. While WWE title picture on SD was Brock-Taker. Then we were treated to Brock-Big Show where Heyman turned on Brock at Survivor Series. And after that we get HHH-HBK feud. And Big Show-Angle. There are no midcard titles on Raw since HHH beat Kane to retire the IC title. Smackdown has the cruiserweights where the title picture is Jamie Nobel, Rey, Taijiri. The SD tag division is Angle/Benoit being the inaugural champs. Then it was Edge/Rey and the Guerreros all going after the belts. On Raw you have Jericho/Christian, Booker T and Goldust, Dudleyz (after Big Show got traded to SD and Devon went back in return), 3 Minute Warning (Roman Reigns' brother and Umaga with Rico as their manager), and William Regal and Lance Storm. The women's title picture is Trish and Victoria. And the premise of the feud was Trish sleeping her way to the top of the women's division.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[reyes the roof]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

I don't think the brand split is the answer to their problem. If they're going to keep so much talent stashed away in NXT, then they don't need two main roster brands, they just need to fully utilize Raw and Smackdown with the entire roster instead of making Smackdown a show full of rematches from Raw. Here we are not even six months in to the brand split and we've run out of guys for Styles to face that have a legit shot at winning, Smackdown's tag team division is horrible, Raw has no idea what to do with their women that aren't fighting for the title. Instead of having two brands, just have two shows with their own angles and roster for the month and then switch it up. No need for all these titles, if the Women's title is on Raw for that month or however long, then run an angle on Smackdown with some of the other girls and try to build them up so your next title challenger doesn't seem picked out of thin air

[dublj]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

I thought Strowman-Sami was well booked and it elevated Sami without hurting Strowman.

Ech, I wouldn't necessarily say that. Strowman is still green as hell. For Zayn to say he's as good as Reigns or Owens but he can't pin a guy that is new to the company and has had majority squash matches since I've seen him on TV. Strowman has the same "undefeated" record Rusev had (in not being pinned or submitted, but counted out), despite having fought fewer big names than Rusev. It seems a bit...odd to say Sami was elevated and Strowman wasn't hurt when in fact I'd go as far as to say that Strowman was the one elevated and Sami wasn't hurt if anyone believes Sami is "just as good as Reigns or Owens".

[UFCMPunk]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

Yea pretty much in what I have seen in 2002. The WHC on Raw is alright with HBK coming back at the end of the year. And the first WHC feud was HHH-Kane and Katie Vick angle. And then at Survivor Series it was the first ever Elimination Chamber that had HHH, RVD, HBK, Booker T, Jericho and Kane. While WWE title picture on SD was Brock-Taker. Then we were treated to Brock-Big Show where Heyman turned on Brock at Survivor Series. And after that we get HHH-HBK feud. And Big Show-Angle. There are no midcard titles on Raw since HHH beat Kane to retire the IC title. Smackdown has the cruiserweights where the title picture is Jamie Nobel, Rey, Taijiri. The SD tag division is Angle/Benoit being the inaugural champs. Then it was Edge/Rey and the Guerreros all going after the belts. On Raw you have Jericho/Christian, Booker T and Goldust, Dudleyz (after Big Show got traded to SD and Devon went back in return), 3 Minute Warning (Roman Reigns' brother and Umaga with Rico as their manager), and William Regal and Lance Storm. The women's title picture is Trish and Victoria. And the premise of the feud was Trish sleeping her way to the top of the women's division.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The only thing missing that was in the original brand split, Paul Heyman being the head writer for SD. If Paul Heyman was writing for SD, then it would be exactly like the original brand split. Honestly, I think RAW is more the Sports Entertainment show while SD is the wrestling show so maybe that's why SD beats RAW by miles.

[Streets]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

Ech, I wouldn't necessarily say that. Strowman is still green as hell. For Zayn to say he's as good as Reigns or Owens but he can't pin a guy that is new to the company and has had majority squash matches since I've seen him on TV. Strowman has the same "undefeated" record Rusev had (in not being pinned or submitted, but counted out), despite having fought fewer big names than Rusev. It seems a bit...odd to say Sami was elevated and Strowman wasn't hurt when in fact I'd go as far as to say that Strowman was the one elevated and Sami wasn't hurt if anyone believes Sami is "just as good as Reigns or Owens".

I think you're confusing real life and their characters.

In real life, yes Sami is a much stronger worker with more experience.

Storyline wise Strowman has been built as this unstoppable monster who demolishes everyone and Sami has been built as "the underdog from the underground"' and a guy who has been largely overlooked by the company while his former "bff" has went on to become the face of the brand. According to the storyline, people don't think Sami is as good as Reigns/Owens but Sami does and is out to prove it. So he picks a fight with the biggest dog in the yard.

[dublj]

Re: Roadblock: End of the Line - 12/18/16

I think you're confusing real life and their characters.

If anything, I'm confusing their characters and their storyline by taking into account who they've faced in the past. Sami Zayn has match history. When they talk about him, they have something to reference. Strowman came in like an RKO, and aside from having not watched the last two weeks of Raw, I cannot recall for the life of me anything said about Strowman's past other than "he came up with the Wyatt family". I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but he seems to be green in storyline as well. He came up, did squash matches, and that's the build they're making for him when fighting Sami? That doesn't seem like the type of build and PPV matchup that would help elevate either person.

Or maybe I'm just out of touch and just greatly dislike the beloved pattern of the Build-A-Wrestler Workshop WWE does with throwing big guys at jobbers a-la Ryback and Strowman to give them credibility.