WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

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  • redsox4evur
    Hall Of Fame
    • Jul 2013
    • 18169

    #556
    Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

    Originally posted by ggsimmonds
    I also think it would be better for Roman professionally. I've heard many wrestlers say being heel is easier because you have a little more freedom (not as much as in the past though). Plus I think down inside Roman does not appreciate the fans treatment of him. He can bring that out to the surface a bit and be more natural. Then in time I suspect that the situation will warrant a face turn and Roman will have the fans behind him.
    I've also heard of wrestlers who hated being heels because it meant that they were going to make less money due to a decline in merchandise sales when they turned heel.
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    • EWRMETS
      All Star
      • Jul 2002
      • 7491

      #557
      Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

      What was the point of the over the top Bray stuff? I understand part of the audience is children but it just makes absolutely no sense to have serious competitors like AJ and then have some goofy B horror movie character. They've already ruined his character but as creepy cult leader it's interesting. The stuff tonight and over the past few weeks is horrible and makes me never want to see him again.

      Comment

      • Cubfan
        World Series Champions!!
        • Feb 2004
        • 3929

        #558
        Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

        Originally posted by EWRMETS
        What was the point of the over the top Bray stuff? I understand part of the audience is children but it just makes absolutely no sense to have serious competitors like AJ and then have some goofy B horror movie character. They've already ruined his character but as creepy cult leader it's interesting. The stuff tonight and over the past few weeks is horrible and makes me never want to see him again.
        That stuff would have made sense if Bray would have won instead we get another Orton title run.
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        • ggsimmonds
          Hall Of Fame
          • Jan 2009
          • 11235

          #559
          Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

          Originally posted by redsox4evur
          That's exactly what it was. I watched that video package they aired before the match 3/4 times time after it already aired during Raw. It was great and that match was the one I was most looking forward to. It also didn't help that there was no interference from someone like Samoa Joe, KO, Finn Balor. I'm going to back and rewatch some of the matches including that one so my mind might after watching it again. And I did like the psychology of HHH working on the Rollins' knee throughout the match and Rollins could've sold it better as well. He took a bunch of shots to it but could still pull out a phoenix splash after not being able to do the powerbomb off the top rope.
          I'm not really putting that on Rollins though. HHH and whoever worked to produce that match is equally to blame. Maybe Seth was the one that said he wants to do that move, but it could have very easily been someone else because to me that looked like a prescripted spot and not a on the mat decision.

          But this was mentioned earlier in the thread, you don't make a high flyer's knee the story of the match and still have the high flyer do high flyer things.

          I do think this match highlighted a potential weakness of Seth though. When it comes to spots he is a goldmine, but he is not great at just working a match. Contrast this with HHH who is, at least I don't think he is great at spots or singular great and memorable moments within a match, but does have some excellent matches under his belt (and shovel).

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          • ggsimmonds
            Hall Of Fame
            • Jan 2009
            • 11235

            #560
            Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

            Originally posted by EWRMETS
            What was the point of the over the top Bray stuff? I understand part of the audience is children but it just makes absolutely no sense to have serious competitors like AJ and then have some goofy B horror movie character. They've already ruined his character but as creepy cult leader it's interesting. The stuff tonight and over the past few weeks is horrible and makes me never want to see him again.
            So about that guy that posters said they were in tears when they realized this was his final match...

            Comment

            • EWRMETS
              All Star
              • Jul 2002
              • 7491

              #561
              Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

              Originally posted by ggsimmonds
              So about that guy that posters said they were in tears when they realized this was his final match...
              It isn't 1991 and every feud he's been in recently barely touches on anything supernatural.

              Comment

              • cima
                Hall Of Fame
                • Sep 2004
                • 13478

                #562
                Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

                <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UVz71YzHvw0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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                • redsox4evur
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Jul 2013
                  • 18169

                  #563
                  Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

                  Originally posted by ggsimmonds
                  I'm not really putting that on Rollins though. HHH and whoever worked to produce that match is equally to blame. Maybe Seth was the one that said he wants to do that move, but it could have very easily been someone else because to me that looked like a prescripted spot and not a on the mat decision.

                  But this was mentioned earlier in the thread, you don't make a high flyer's knee the story of the match and still have the high flyer do high flyer things.

                  I do think this match highlighted a potential weakness of Seth though. When it comes to spots he is a goldmine, but he is not great at just working a match. Contrast this with HHH who is, at least I don't think he is great at spots or singular great and memorable moments within a match, but does have some excellent matches under his belt (and shovel).
                  That's exactly what I am getting at. I have no problem with him doing a phoenix splash, even in that match, it was just the timing of it. If it's done before the weapons get introduced I can 100% live with that. But when Rollins takes like 7/8 chair shots and sledgehammer shot to the knee, I wanna see him struggling to pull off a move like the phoenix splash.
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                  • dubcity
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • May 2012
                    • 17876

                    #564
                    Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

                    Originally posted by Cubfan
                    That stuff would have made sense if Bray would have won instead we get another Orton title run.
                    Speaking of that, 13? Had no idea he had nearly that many reigns. Not that titles have meant much in the past 10-15 years, but that still seems inflated.

                    Comment

                    • reyes the roof
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Mar 2009
                      • 11526

                      #565
                      Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

                      Originally posted by ggsimmonds
                      Fans didn't like baby face Rocky Maivia, so here is the Rock.
                      The problem with that comparison is that Rocky was never getting the type of reaction as Reigns. Yeah people didn't connect with him, but he was never getting an overwhelming amount of boos or die rocky die chants. So when they turned him, the boos increased. If you turn Reigns he'll actually get less boos because booing him will no longer be the cool thing to do

                      Comment

                      • cima
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Sep 2004
                        • 13478

                        #566
                        Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

                        Originally posted by SPTO
                        Oh, one last thing: The return of JR was nice in theory but horrible in execution. Sometimes you just can't go back home again. It was a little depressing listening to him call the Taker match.
                        I think it was a combination of a lot of factors, the obvious being the personal hell he's currently going through. The other is he's best when he's the lead, which he wasn't tonight.

                        Comment

                        • ubernoob
                          ****
                          • Jul 2004
                          • 15522

                          #567
                          Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

                          Originally posted by reyes the roof
                          The problem with that comparison is that Rocky was never getting the type of reaction as Reigns. Yeah people didn't connect with him, but he was never getting an overwhelming amount of boos or die rocky die chants. So when they turned him, the boos increased. If you turn Reigns he'll actually get less boos because booing him will no longer be the cool thing to do
                          That's untrue too.

                          People just don't like that he isn't fit for the spot they are giving him. Heel or Face, he's not at the level of a big-time player - tonight proved that.

                          The match was an abomination. I liked the story they were trying to tell (even though it's basic and goes back to the HBK/Taker well) but Roman just cannot do it. They could put him as a midcard, US Title type person to get some seasoning under his belt. You look at top guys like Cena, Styles - they could have made Taker's last match tolerable at the very worst.

                          The fans don't *hate* Roman Reigns. They hate the spot he's in. He doesn't need to be at the tip-top, focus of the card to work a program with Styles. He could have had that match and slid back down.

                          Look at Braun. He went from a guy everyone hated seeing, to one people thoroughly enjoyed despite his limitations - because it was a natural progression. What did WWE do with that? They promptly fed him to Roman on a RAW of all things going into Mania.

                          TL;DR - Face/Heel disposition not important. Square Peg, round hole right now. He'll find his groove. He's too good (see many of his matches when he's working with very good wrestlers, he carries his weight) not to. This just isn't the time for it.
                          bad

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                          • ggsimmonds
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 11235

                            #568
                            Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

                            Originally posted by redsox4evur
                            That's exactly what I am getting at. I have no problem with him doing a phoenix splash, even in that match, it was just the timing of it. If it's done before the weapons get introduced I can 100% live with that. But when Rollins takes like 7/8 chair shots and sledgehammer shot to the knee, I wanna see him struggling to pull off a move like the phoenix splash.
                            But then we are in looking behind the curtain area. I think that the splash should not have been in the match, but I where I disagree with you is in Rollins should have sold it more. He can't pull off the phoenix splash while selling a knee injury because then he greatly risks real injury. You can sell the knee while climbing the turnbuckle and immediately after landing, but not during the actual move.

                            My opinion of the match is that Seth and Hunter did what they were asked to do reasonably well, but I don't like what they were asked to do.

                            Comment

                            • cima
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 13478

                              #569
                              Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

                              Originally posted by ubernoob
                              TL;DR - Face/Heel disposition not important. Square Peg, round hole right now. He'll find his groove. He's too good (see many of his matches when he's working with very good wrestlers, he carries his weight) not to. This just isn't the time for it.
                              When's it gonna be though? Cause we've been saying it's not his time yet since 2015.

                              I just don't think he can carry a match and he's not entertaining enough on the mic to ever be "must-see TV" like top stars of the past.

                              Comment

                              • ggsimmonds
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 11235

                                #570
                                Re: WRESTLEMANIA 33 - 4/2/17

                                Originally posted by ubernoob
                                That's untrue too.

                                People just don't like that he isn't fit for the spot they are giving him. Heel or Face, he's not at the level of a big-time player - tonight proved that.

                                The match was an abomination. I liked the story they were trying to tell (even though it's basic and goes back to the HBK/Taker well) but Roman just cannot do it. They could put him as a midcard, US Title type person to get some seasoning under his belt. You look at top guys like Cena, Styles - they could have made Taker's last match tolerable at the very worst.


                                The fans don't *hate* Roman Reigns. They hate the spot he's in. He doesn't need to be at the tip-top, focus of the card to work a program with Styles. He could have had that match and slid back down.

                                Look at Braun. He went from a guy everyone hated seeing, to one people thoroughly enjoyed despite his limitations - because it was a natural progression. What did WWE do with that? They promptly fed him to Roman on a RAW of all things going into Mania.

                                TL;DR - Face/Heel disposition not important. Square Peg, round hole right now. He'll find his groove. He's too good (see many of his matches when he's working with very good wrestlers, he carries his weight) not to. This just isn't the time for it.
                                I disagree with the bolded. Look lets be honest, Taker's time should have already ended. Roman had to carry the main event of a WM. He is actually a good performer, more than good enough to be a main eventer. I've seen him perform very well in top of the card matches. (this is where I typically take a cheap shot at Goldberg)

                                You are right that the fans don't hate Roman but the position he is in. Where we differ is that position in your mind means top of the card. Position in my mind means character.

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