Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

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  • tylerd02
    Rookie
    • Mar 2006
    • 218

    #76
    Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

    I think the bell curve idea is just not realistic. In reality there are alot of bad teams to average teams and life doesn't follow any curve. Some years there are a ton of bad teams and some years there are a bunch of good teams.

    Also this complaining that the bad teams don't have a chance to get better is rediculus. That's how it is, the bad teams in college football usually stay bad. You guys need to get over this idea that every team should have a chance, in reality only certain programs have a chance to win every year and that is what should be shown in the game.

    Comment

    • joejccva71
      Banned
      • Mar 2008
      • 1535

      #77
      Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

      Originally posted by tylerd02
      I think the bell curve idea is just not realistic. In reality there are alot of bad teams to average teams and life doesn't follow any curve. Some years there are a ton of bad teams and some years there are a bunch of good teams.

      Also this complaining that the bad teams don't have a chance to get better is rediculus. That's how it is, the bad teams in college football usually stay bad. You guys need to get over this idea that every team should have a chance, in reality only certain programs have a chance to win every year and that is what should be shown in the game.
      Tell that to teams like Baylor which were horrible at one point. College teams DO get better. Colleges getting invited to higher tiered conferences are PROOF of that.

      Still, by 2018 there are no A teams ..but yet there were 8 years before that. I doubt seriously that all your real life A teams today would ALL get worse in 8 years to the point of where the mass didn't consider them to be a top team anymore.

      If people truely think that, then they have more issues to worry about than following College Football to be honest.

      Comment

      • hazey
        Pro
        • Mar 2008
        • 723

        #78
        Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

        3 things I think would change the progression of this game.

        1) a stricter in season progression that would be contingent on stats only.

        2)I love the idea of seniors experienceing a progression increase in awareness, maybe the older they are the higher they progress with awareness. senior progress higher than Juniors, who progress higher than sophomores, etc...

        3) I would love to see random players throughout the game have like a mass increase every year to incorporate the small school players who develop into potential NFL stars.

        I actually like how low the recruits come in, but I do wish there were more significant diamonds in the rough.

        Comment

        • dalecooper
          Rookie
          • Jun 2003
          • 490

          #79
          Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

          Originally posted by joejccva71
          I'm sorry but THIS is a problem. This kills it for me to be honest. Absolutely zero A teams at all? Alabama, Texas, OU, OSU, Florida? Hello? A teams every year.

          Can you sim another 10 years and post your results please? Post results for 2028.
          It shouldn't make a difference. In fact every year after the first four should be roughly the same, since it's all CPU-generated and CPU-progressed players at that point.

          Comment

          • dalecooper
            Rookie
            • Jun 2003
            • 490

            #80
            Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

            I did a couple charts in Excel based off of the IGN guy's sim stats. Just a visual representation for those who aren't impressed by the raw numbers.



            The first one isn't too impactful at a glance, but if you compare 2010's line (dark blue) to 2014's (purple) you can see that 2010 is more or less a bell curve, with not a lot of teams at either extreme end (just one A+ and no D- teams). The curve shifts over each year until we get to 2014. What looks to be happening there is basically that the high end is now B+/A-, not A+ (there are zero A+ and A teams); the meat of the curve has drastically moved to the C and D range; and the bottom end of the curve disappears into a glut of D- teams, because EA doesn't rate below that. Presumably if there were F+, F, and F- ratings, the curve might taper off a little more.

            The second one has been simplified (each letter grade consolidated, though I kept D- separated from the D+/D aggregate to focus on the increase in the worst possible rated teams). It shows the radical dropoff in A and B teams, the somewhat less but still noticeable increase in C and D teams, and the extreme increase in D- teams.

            Comment

            • Special27K
              Pro
              • Feb 2009
              • 554

              #81
              Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

              Originally posted by joejccva71
              Tell that to teams like Baylor which were horrible at one point. College teams DO get better. Colleges getting invited to higher tiered conferences are PROOF of that.

              Still, by 2018 there are no A teams ..but yet there were 8 years before that. I doubt seriously that all your real life A teams today would ALL get worse in 8 years to the point of where the mass didn't consider them to be a top team anymore.

              If people truely think that, then they have more issues to worry about than following College Football to be honest.
              It's all relative though. Texas, USC, OSU, or whoever you want to integrate into that perennial power category are just as good compared to the middle of the road teams like Minnesota, Oregon State, and Texas Tech in the future as they are now.

              The way I see it a team that's an A+ or 95+ OVR should be regarded as one of the best teams all time not an every year occurrence. I'd want to to see only 2-3 teams maximum in a year be A's or A-'s.

              The only issue I see are the AWR ratings and they really only come into factor on the defensive side of the ball. Overall progression is alright as is, it won't get touched much at all to really affect the number of A's you see in dynasty.

              I think people look too much into the letter grade's or overall's, how good a team is should be based solely on their performance and how they play.

              I'm all for an option in the future to hide player's "OVR" rating from us so we can make our depth charts and starting line up's based solely on how they preform and not how they SHOULD perform.
              GT: TheHippySteve

              Comment

              • Michgantown
                Rookie
                • Jun 2010
                • 329

                #82
                Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

                2026
                A+ 0
                A 0
                A- 1
                B+ 2
                B 6
                B- 10
                C+ 15
                C 21
                C- 11
                D+ 8
                D 19
                D- 28

                Nebraska is a D Alabama was the A- Tory is a B along with TCU, Houston, Nevada. With make them top 10 talent wise.

                Comment

                • dalecooper
                  Rookie
                  • Jun 2003
                  • 490

                  #83
                  Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

                  Originally posted by Special27K
                  I think people look too much into the letter grade's or overall's, how good a team is should be based solely on their performance and how they play.
                  To underline a point I'm sure someone else already made, that's not sufficient for those of us that import draft classes into Madden. Even if the (startlingly large) across-the-board drop in team grades doesn't really affect how NCAA plays, it will definitely affect the ratings of drafted players for Madden. A lot of people, myself included, play these games in combination and in a long-term way, playing or simming multiple seasons in both dynasty and franchise mode. If the wheels come off the Madden franchise because my imported draft classes are all terrible, I'm not going to be too pleased, even if NCAA continues to play roughly the same in dynasty. Which, by the way, I doubt it will, unless I'm willing to tweak sliders on an on-going basis.

                  Comment

                  • joejccva71
                    Banned
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 1535

                    #84
                    Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

                    Originally posted by Special27K
                    It's all relative though. Texas, USC, OSU, or whoever you want to integrate into that perennial power category are just as good compared to the middle of the road teams like Minnesota, Oregon State, and Texas Tech in the future as they are now.

                    The way I see it a team that's an A+ or 95+ OVR should be regarded as one of the best teams all time not an every year occurrence. I'd want to to see only 2-3 teams maximum in a year be A's or A-'s.

                    The only issue I see are the AWR ratings and they really only come into factor on the defensive side of the ball. Overall progression is alright as is, it won't get touched much at all to really affect the number of A's you see in dynasty.

                    I think people look too much into the letter grade's or overall's, how good a team is should be based solely on their performance and how they play.

                    I'm all for an option in the future to hide player's "OVR" rating from us so we can make our depth charts and starting line up's based solely on how they preform and not how they SHOULD perform.
                    You are missing the point. There wasn't an arguement that PROGRESSION was or wasn't broken. Our point is that EA made it so the recruited players ratings are too low. It's not just Awareness. Progression is fine. This isn't the NFL where even if ratings were low (if the potential was there) you still had a nice young player who had 10-15 years of football ahead of him to progress.

                    If there is a taper and drastic drop off of A and B rated teams after simming 8-10 years of dynasty then there is a problem and it solidifies our point even further about the recruits ratings. In 20 years of simming there still wouldn't be any A teams, and barely any B teams, mediocre C teams and ALOT of D teams.

                    This is not only NOT realistic, but it kills the dynasty game mode. Also what does this do for those that like importing their draft classes into Madden 11? It's not happening.
                    Last edited by joejccva71; 07-22-2010, 12:32 PM.

                    Comment

                    • mavfan21
                      MVP
                      • Jul 2007
                      • 1842

                      #85
                      Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

                      Originally posted by joejccva71
                      You are missing the point. There wasn't an arguement that PROGRESSION was or wasn't broken. Our point is that EA made it so the recruited players ratings are too low. It's not just Awareness. Progression is fine. This isn't the NFL where even if ratings were low (if the potential was there) you still had a nice young player who had 10-15 years of football ahead of him to progress.

                      If there is a taper and drastic drop off of A and B rated teams after simming 8-10 years of dynasty then there is a problem and it solidifies our point even further about the recruits ratings. In 20 years of simming there still wouldn't be any A teams, and barely any B teams, mediocre C teams and ALOT of D teams.

                      This is not only NOT realistic, but it kills the dynasty game mode.

                      Amen. Must be patched.
                      Don't look back too long and don't look too far ahead.

                      Comment

                      • Pogo27
                        MVP
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 1632

                        #86
                        Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

                        Originally posted by Whoman
                        that´s all great, but for the purpose of this video game it really is pointless if up to 50 team are rated D+, D and D- and only 4 are rated A+, A, A- or B+.




                        is what we need for both recruits and thus overall rating. Can´t be that difficult to achieve.
                        1) I know bell curves are quite naturally occurring in a lot of instances, but is the quality of college football team necessarily one of these things the bell curve realistically applies too?

                        2) D- is the lowest grade that can be assigned. You could make a team of players that are all 50 overall and make the team's overall rating 50, and get a D-. You could also make a team that is full of players that are 1 overalll, and make the team's overall rating 1, and also get a D-. I think we need to look at not the letter grade, but the overall rating for the team.

                        Comment

                        • Michgantown
                          Rookie
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 329

                          #87
                          Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

                          2026 top 25
                          1 Penn state B+
                          2.Texas B+
                          3.Alabama A-
                          5.Florida B-
                          6. Wisconsin B-
                          7. Stanford B-
                          8. Texas A&m B-
                          9.Troy B
                          10. UCF C+
                          11. TCU B
                          12. Ohio State B-
                          13. Huuston B
                          14. Florida State B-
                          15. Miami B-
                          16. West Virginia C+
                          17. Nevada B
                          18. Michigan State C+
                          19. South Carolina C
                          20. Oregon C-
                          21 Maryland B-
                          22. Georgia Tech C+
                          23. LSU B
                          24. UConn C+
                          25. Tennessee C

                          Comment

                          • dalecooper
                            Rookie
                            • Jun 2003
                            • 490

                            #88
                            Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

                            Originally posted by Pogo27
                            1) I know bell curves are quite naturally occurring in a lot of instances, but is the quality of college football team necessarily one of these things the bell curve realistically applies too?
                            Basically yes. Most teams are average, some teams are good or bad, a few teams are great or awful. It's not a precision curve but that is about how it goes. More to the point, that's how we as gamers should WANT it to go - the game where a handful of sharks beat up on an armada of weaklings is not the game I want to play (on either side of the equation).

                            Originally posted by Pogo27
                            2) D- is the lowest grade that can be assigned. You could make a team of players that are all 50 overall and make the team's overall rating 50, and get a D-. You could also make a team that is full of players that are 1 overalll, and make the team's overall rating 1, and also get a D-. I think we need to look at not the letter grade, but the overall rating for the team.
                            That would give us more specific data about what's happening at the bottom, but the fundamental point remains the same: all players and all teams get worse as you swap out more and more of the initial roster for CPU-generated and -progressed players. Once they are all swapped out, your team is probably going to be a whole letter grade and a half worse than it was before, on average, and so will everyone else.

                            Comment

                            • dalecooper
                              Rookie
                              • Jun 2003
                              • 490

                              #89
                              Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

                              Originally posted by Michgantown
                              2026 top 25
                              10. UCF C+

                              20. Oregon C-
                              Not sure which one of those is funnier.

                              Comment

                              • Pogo27
                                MVP
                                • Jul 2009
                                • 1632

                                #90
                                Re: Is Dynasty ruined down the road?

                                Originally posted by Michgantown
                                2026 top 25
                                1 Penn state B+
                                2.Texas B+
                                3.Alabama A-
                                5.Florida B-
                                6. Wisconsin B-
                                7. Stanford B-
                                8. Texas A&m B-
                                9.Troy B
                                10. UCF C+
                                11. TCU B
                                12. Ohio State B-
                                13. Huuston B
                                14. Florida State B-
                                15. Miami B-
                                16. West Virginia C+
                                17. Nevada B
                                18. Michigan State C+
                                19. South Carolina C
                                20. Oregon C-
                                21 Maryland B-
                                22. Georgia Tech C+
                                23. LSU B
                                24. UConn C+
                                25. Tennessee C
                                This doesn't seem too ridiculously terrible. Alabama is still an A- 16 seasons in. Clearly there is a drop but it's not like it continues to drop.

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