Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

[Dbrentonbuck]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

The problem in all of this is that the NCAA likes to pretend it is a student athletic organization instead of a business. It needs to just be honest with itself and make kids sign an agreement that allows them to use their likeness for profit the same way it makes schools agree that they can use their team logos etc. Each kid would have the chance to either sign the agreement and get a free education, chance to impress the NFL and build a personal brand name in exchange for the NCAA using them to make a profit or they can go play for a club football team. It is as simple as that. If the NCAA would stop pretending to be a charitable organization, then none of this would be an issue.

[aholbert32]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

AHolbert, I fully understand your argument and to some extent agree with it. Where do you draw the line in regards to likeness? How far does one go with his or her interpretation of likeness in regards to a football game? Some might make the argument that replicating a uniform which thousands of other players have worn, putting a number on it which thousands of other players have worn, and putting that player at the same postion which thousands of others have played, would not necessarily represent a true likeness.

Maybe my perspective is skewed a little here and maybe it is not, but your example of your company pasting your face on a shirt and selling it for profit is not appropriate for this scenario. EA is not putting these players faces in the game. The faces in the game are generics. They are not putting names on the jerseys. As obvious as it might seem to some that a player or players in a game represent real life counterparts, I believe this case is going to be determined by interpretation

The line is here for me. If you have the 2011 Michigan Wolverines with a QB with the number 16 who is black and has dreds......thats Denard Robinson.

If you have the 2011 Michigan Wolverines with a QB with the number 14 who is white and has a mullet......thats not Denard Robinson.

[TDenverFan]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

Frankly, the fact that these players recieve 50k Schollys a year seems like a fair trade to me. Plus, is every player making the school the a lot of cash? No! So is the NCAA going to have to calculate the aproxomate value the specific player makes the school and charge based off of that number? Outside of a couple of players (Tebow, Robinson, etc.) the schools don't directly profit from most players (Is North Texas's backup placekicker truly raking in the big bucks for the Mean Green? Is USC's 9th string tailback earning the school millions?). So, many of these college players would be compensated in pennies, if your basing it on how much the school makes off of them.

[aholbert32]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

See that is a sense of entitlement. That isn't how the real world works. I will give you an example. I was asked 7 years ago to manage an advertising office. When I was hired, I was told the job was salary and that raises were based on yearly reviews and averaged between 2-7 percent. Now, when I started the office billed about 87,000 per month. Within the first two years we were billing over 110,000 per month. That means I helped that company make over 20,000 dollars per month. Do you think the company came to me and said, "please accept this 10,000 dollar monthly raise as it is your cut of the profits". In fact, they took some of the things we were doing and rolled them out to other offices so their profits increased as well. Do you want to know what I got from the deal? 3 years ago all raises were frozen due to a bad economy even though we continue to bill over 110,000 per month. Can I go to a judge and say, "hey I want this company to give me my share of the profits they made because of me"? Nope. Welcome to the real world.

You make it out like if it wasn't for the NCAA, these kids would be millionaires. If it wasn't for the NCAA no one would know who they are. Many of them wouldn't have gotten an education at all and would be serving us fries. They had an opportunity to build a brand name BECAUSE they played for a NCAA school which gave them exposure to millions of fans and television. It is up to them what they make out of the chance.

If it wasn't for the NCAA, no one would give a flying fudge who Cam Newton is. My local university has a club football team that is not affiliated with the school and they play other club football teams, guess what... I don't care about anyone on that team. They may have the next Tom Brady and I wouldn't care...and neither will anyone else. And, when Tom Brady Jr. graduates, the local car dealer isn't going to call him to make a commercial. Do you want to know why? Because club football players do not have the multibillion dollar branding machine of the NCAA behind them.

Each of these kids had the same chance as every other kid on an NCAA team to build a personal brand and impress the NFL... some did, some didn't... this is life.

Again thats a horrible analogy. You made an agreement to work for your company and bill a certain amount in exchange for a salary and benefits. Nothing else. You dont have the right to demand more money based on how much you bill. They dont have the right to use your likeness and make more money off of it. In your employment agreement, they have the right to freeze your raises and fire you at will if they like. You agreed to this deal.

Stop trying to complicate the issue. Its simple. College athletes are given a scholarship in exchange for them playing football....thats it. They dont agree to sign over their likeness rights.

I dont make it like these college athletes should be millionaires. I make it like they should get a cut. Cam Newton made Auburn millions this year. So did Nick Fairley. So did the 70 other players on Auburn. I'm not arguing that Cam should get a cut of the bowl money or tv money because that comes directly from them playing on the field. Do I think they should get a cut of any jersey sold with their number on it? Yep. A video game using their likeness? Yep.

[Dame]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

Stop trying to complicate the issue. Its simple. College athletes are given a scholarship in exchange for them playing football....thats it. They dont agree to sign over their likeness rights.

Yea this is it

[Dazraz]

Hopefully we are on the way to seeing this ridiculous episode come to it's rightful conclusion. Without real names, faces or statistical histories, a player in a videogame can only be regarded as generic. You need a little more than skin tone & body type to put a genuine argument that you have been replicated without reward in product.

[Dbrentonbuck]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

Again thats a horrible analogy. You made an agreement to work for your company and bill a certain amount in exchange for a salary and benefits. Nothing else. You dont have the right to demand more money based on how much you bill. They dont have the right to use your likeness and make more money off of it. In your employment agreement, they have the right to freeze your raises and fire you at will if they like. You agreed to this deal.

Stop trying to complicate the issue. Its simple. College athletes are given a scholarship in exchange for them playing football....thats it. They dont agree to sign over their likeness rights.

I dont make it like these college athletes should be millionaires. I make it like they should get a cut. Cam Newton made Auburn millions this year. So did Nick Fairley. So did the 70 other players on Auburn. I'm not arguing that Cam should get a cut of the bowl money or tv money because that comes directly from them playing on the field. Do I think they should get a cut of any jersey sold with their number on it? Yep. A video game using their likeness? Yep.

Ok, again, if Cam Newton played for the West Texas Community College Cole Miners do you think anyone would buy a jersey with his name on it? Of course not. The only reason anyone in the world cares about Cam Newton is because he played for an NCAA school which had a built in fanbase, a multimillion dollar television deal and the branding and marketing of the NCAA juggernaught. No one would give a flying flip about Cam Newton had the NCAA not given him a chance to shine in their spotlight. His name was worth NOTHING before he went to a NCAA school and thus he should be paid NOTHING. He has the chance to use his personal brand, that he had the opportunity to build SOLELY because the NCAA allowed him to, to make money now. The NCAA should be allowed to make money from his success since they are the ones that gave him the chance to succeed in the first place. How many Cam Newton fans were not already NCAA football fans before he came to Auburn? How many fans will stop being NCAA football fans after he is gone? Auburn was already selling out games before he was there and they will be selling out games long after he is gone because they are Auburn. Cam owes them everything, they owe him NOTHING lol. That is why you don't hear successful players complaining.

Oh and they are raping the system by knowing full well that there is an NCAA football game every year and has been since before they accepted a scholarship and that the NCAA sells jersies with numbers that correspond to popular players and then accepting that scholarship, playing 4 years and getting a free education and THEN complaining about it. Let someone turn down a scholarship and THEN sue NCAA and then I may respect this suit a little more... as it stands now it is just a loser trying to get more money from the "glory years".

[MBFranchise]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

Stop trying to complicate the issue. Its simple. College athletes are given a scholarship in exchange for them playing football....thats it. They dont agree to sign over their likeness rights.

Actually, yes they do. Heck, I was a DIII Cross Country runner and I signed over my likeness.

[Dbrentonbuck]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

Actually, yes they do. Heck, I was a DIII Cross Country runner and I signed over my likeness.

Dude! I have a shirt with your face on it!

Is this you?

[JerseySuave4]

any reasonable person has to understand that the players are right for being upset about this. Is it money motivated? Of course, but it goes beyond just that. Ed O'Bannon is one of the main people suing the NCAA and video games because they used #31 PF for a classic UCLA team. Ed was no longer a college athlete, the model didn't look exactly like him, but you'd be a fool not to realize the player is based on him.

Yes lots of players receive scholarships, but not every player. You wouldn't think it was fair either if people were making millions of dollars off you and you saw none of the profits. How many Florida #15 jerseys do you think the University sold while Tebow was there? And how much of those profits did he see? Yes he received a scholarship, to play football. The problem is they force these kids to sign a lifetime waiver saying that the NCAA can use their likeness forever.

[JerseySuave4]

It is my understanding from reading posts of ex-NCAA players, they sign an agreement which protects the NCAA from lawsuits like this.

they are basically forced to sign a waiver which gives schools the right to use their likeness for life. I believe its part of the agreement when they sign up to play a college sport. Its so schools can use their pictures on programs, posters, etc. and they basically have to sign it.

I'm happy that EA can still use their likeness or something close to it instead of having to really randomize every thing because it would make it harder for the rosters people but i'm also not going to sit here and act like the player's point isn't valid.

[Dbrentonbuck]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

any reasonable person has to understand that the players are right for being upset about this. Is it money motivated? Of course, but it goes beyond just that. Ed O'Bannon is one of the main people suing the NCAA and video games because they used #31 PF for a classic UCLA team. Ed was no longer a college athlete, the model didn't look exactly like him, but you'd be a fool not to realize the player is based on him.

Yes lots of players receive scholarships, but not every player. You wouldn't think it was fair either if people were making millions of dollars off you and you saw none of the profits. How many Florida #15 jerseys do you think the University sold while Tebow was there? And how much of those profits did he see? Yes he received a scholarship, to play football. The problem is they force these kids to sign a lifetime waiver saying that the NCAA can use their likeness forever.

And how many Jerseys did Tim Tebow sell before he played for an NCAA school? How many would he sell had he played for a club team instead of an official NCAA BCS school? Unless Tebow brought those tens of thousands of fans with him as a high school senior the the NCAA doesn't owe him a dime and he has no right to ask for it. He gained every ounce of popularity and marketability he has BECAUSE of the NCAA school he played for. He used the NCAA's relationship with media and television broadcast rights to build a brand for himself. The only way this argument holds any water is if the NCAA is taking already branded individuals with hundreds of thousands of fans before coming into the NCAA and exploiting them... they are not doing that... they have already built a brand that these kids are benefiting from.... the NCAA doesn't ask Tim to give them part of his product endorsement deals even though they are the ones who gave him the exposure to build a personal brand that he can make money on. If anything, they have a better legal case than he does.

[FedExPope]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

No the point of NCAA isn't to get away with not paying players, its to avoid using generated rosters. I don't see how any judge would be able to side with those two douche bags at all. Look this discussion is NOT supposed to be about whether or not players should get paid at ALL for the amount of money they help generate. Its about this specific use of their likeness, which you can guarantee EA doesn't make half of what these universities make every year from football teams alone. This isn't the issue that should be brought up when we talk about college players not getting paid. Its small potatoes compared to how much they help generate for their universities. Now does EA have to pay the conferences for using their logos, and universities for using their names and details and unis etc.? If not, then HELL no the players shouldn't sue EA for using their likeness without paying.

[UniversityofArizona]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

I feel like the scholarships should be converted into cash payments to the students that they can spend on getting an education or not. Forcing everybody in the entire market, and yes I do believe the NCAA is a trust, to accept something as payment that they may necessarily not want or need is by no means right. Hell huge percentages of these athletes never even graduate, and in essence end up providing a tremendous amount of labor for NOTHING. Athletes do not get a guaranteed degree, they get the opportunity to get a degree. If my boss forced me to sign an agreement when I went to work for him that said he didn't have to pay me except with the possibility of earning something in the future that may or may not help me earn more money in the future then I would be angry as hell especially if that employer had to the ability to block my entry into an entire field of work unless I agreed to do what he wanted, and was preventing me from making money in any other way to support myself in the meantime.

Degrees are only as good as what you make of them, and what employers value them at. If employers didn't value degrees then their value would be akin to giving a 4 year starter at Auburn a bag of potato chips for his services. If these degrees are worth so much then pay the players a comparable amount of cash, and let them decide if they want to spend that money on class, or if they want to spend it on a car while they play for said university.

[canes21]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

I feel like the scholarships should be converted into cash payments to the students that they can spend on getting an education or not. Forcing everybody in the entire market, and yes I do believe the NCAA is a trust, to accept something as payment that they may necessarily not want or need is by no means right. Hell huge percentages of these athletes never even graduate, and in essence end up providing a tremendous amount of labor for NOTHING. Athletes do not get a guaranteed degree, they get the opportunity to get a degree. If my boss forced me to sign an agreement when I went to work for him that said he didn't have to pay me except with the possibility of earning something in the future that may or may not help me earn more money in the future then I would be angry as hell especially if that employer had to the ability to block my entry into an entire field of work unless I agreed to do what he wanted, and was preventing me from making money in any other way to support myself in the meantime.

Degrees are only as good as what you make of them, and what employers value them at. If employers didn't value degrees then their value would be akin to giving a 4 year starter at Auburn a bag of potato chips for his services. If these degrees are worth so much then pay the players a comparable amount of cash, and let them decide if they want to spend that money on class, or if they want to spend it on a car while they play for said university.

These kids are getting accepted into a school, not getting a job. They aren't employees, they are students. They are geting a free education because they are athletic, not because they are the smartest kids out there. Some guys like Ponder, the Duke roster, Stanford roster, are also smart and could probably go to a lot of schools for next to nothing off their smarts, but not your average player. A lot of these guys score low ACT scores that barely get them eligible, which is an 18, which is also an absolute joke. They should be required to score a 21, in my opinion.

Anyways, they're being accepted into school and you think the university should give them money to spend on an education or anything else they want? Ridiculous.