Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

[UniversityofArizona]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

What if they don't want the education but still want to play? Not everyone wants this almighty scholarship everyone keeps talking about. If players could play without getting the education, and instead getting a comparable amount of cash how many athletes do you think would take them up on that offer, and would abandon this ridiculous pretense that they are hard working students as well? There are plenty of players that are more than talented enough to play for the best teams in the United States yet they are prevented from doing so because they don't have the grades and of course there is no other organization that they can go to in terms of showcasing their talents and developing them, and you think we should make it even more difficult and remove even more opportunities from people by raising academic requirements on athletes who already could care less for the academics? Make it an option to take the scholarship or cash, and we will see just how happy athletes are about only being compensated with scholarships.

Also, I am not saying give them a scholarship and cash. I am saying give them the option. I don't even think athletes should even be required to attend the university as students to be able to play for the university under contract on a year to year basis. Coaches already screw universities and players over by leaving all the time. Let the players do likewise to coaches and universities. The universities already make more than enough money anyways so I don't feel sorry for their athletic budgets which do nothing to help the educational process in the first place.

[canes21]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

What if they don't want the education but still want to play? Not everyone wants this almighty scholarship everyone keeps talking about. If players could play without getting the education, and instead getting a comparable amount of cash how many athletes do you think would take them up on that offer, and would abandon this ridiculous pretense that they are hard working students as well? There are plenty of players that are more than talented enough to play for the best teams in the United States yet they are prevented from doing so because they don't have the grades and of course there is no other organization that they can go to in terms of showcasing their talents and developing them, and you think we should make it even more difficult and remove even more opportunities from people by raising academic requirements on athletes who already could care less for the academics? Make it an option to take the scholarship or cash, and we will see just how happy athletes are about only being compensated with scholarships.

If you want to play sports at a UNIVERSITY then you should have to meet academic requirements for that university. If you can't qualify academically, then you don't deserve to play there.

[UniversityofArizona]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

Well then show me the developmental league that the NFL is too lazy to create to bring up their own talent. The athletes shouldn't have to do the whole shebang to play football in this monopolized to the limit sport. We don't require coaches to be taking classes at a university to coach there do we? The athletes are just as capable of playing for the university and representing the university regardless of their ability to take classes at the university. Requiring someone who is being brought into a university to play football to also attend class is like forcing somebody you brought in on an academic scholarship to also play sports.

[canes21]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

Well then show me the developmental league that the NFL is too lazy to create to bring up their own talent. The athletes shouldn't have to do the whole shebang to play football in this monopolized to the limit sport. We don't require coaches to be taking classes at a university to coach there do we? The athletes are just as capable of playing for the university and representing the university regardless of their ability to take classes at the university. Requiring someone who is being brought into a university to play football to also attend class is like forcing somebody you brought in on an academic scholarship to also play sports.

It's not even close to that. Playing football at a university is not a right, it is an honor and a privilege. To earn the ability to play a sport at a university you must attend that university.

Also, if universities played players in cash and did not require them to attend classes there, wouldn't that make them professional athletes?

[UniversityofArizona]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

Let them be professional athletes I could care less, and while playing for a university may be a right and a privilege to you where else can somebody with the talent to play actually play? Oh yea...the NCAA controls the whole industry up until you make it or don't make it to the NFL, and if you fall afoul of the NCAA you are pretty much screwed. By the way just about everything else seems professional to me from the ridiculous 100,000 person stadiums to the millionaire coaches and 50 million dollar plus athletic budgets and gaudy bowl championships. By the way I don't understand this obsession with amateurism when most people can become working professionals between the ages of 16-18 years of age.

Goodness I think Europe got it right with their league system for soccer, and that lets their universities teach people who want to learn rather than shoving unwanted educations down the throats of athletes that may not want them.

[canes21]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

If you have the talent to play Div I football, but aren't smart enough to make it into a university, then join the Canadian league, UFL, or Arena league. Make a big enough impact there and you will get you shot at the NFL.

And if you aren't smart enough to make it to one of these colleges in the first place, then I doubt many NFL teams will be interested anyways.

[UniversityofArizona]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

Requiring people to move to new countries to take part in a viable alternative is not really an alternative at all. The UFL will also be bankrupt in the next year or two anyways because they decided it is a great idea to play in the fall. Also, I don't see how football smarts, or practice and time spent learning the ins and outs of football are directly proportional to how well you do in classes that you may have less interest in such as calculus or even algebra for that matter nor do I feel it is necessarily a completely accurate representation of how smart an individual is. If someone is brilliant and talented on the football field, but can't motivate themselves enough to understand chemistry why would an NFL coach look down on them? What relevance does your ability to learn chemistry have on your ability to play football.

Arguing that people are simply too stupid to make it into college is a statement I flat out disagree with since I feel any individual with the proper motivation, quality instruction, and good study environment can make it to at the very least one of the bottom tier academic institutions.

The Arena Football League is a nice alternative, but is a different kind of football entirely and carries small rosters. It would need to be significantly expanded for me to consider it to be a viable alternative for players straight out of high school.

[canes21]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

I am not disagreeing with you about needing D-Leagues, Rookie Leagues, etc., but I am going to completely disagree with you on the idea of playing for a university, but not attending there. And I feel a player should qualify academically if they want to play football on the next level(DIV I).

Also, I am not saying a coach is not going to take an athlete who just isn't motivated in the classroom, but if a player tries and still can't get that 18 on the ACT, then chances are the NFL schemes, and even the college schemes, are going to be too difficult for them to understand.

[UniversityofArizona]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

The problem right now though is that the NCAA is the functioning development league and the only real option for high school players. Thus, just because you went to a garbage high school or you were not motivated enough and failed to pass the ACT you will no longer even have the opportunity to try and learn college or NFL schemes even if you have shown a wonderful history of learning them at the high school level up until that point. Judging 17 and 18 year olds who may have plenty of football talent with tests that aren't even football related is a lame way of going about things. If I were to use your chemistry scores as a means of judging your ability to paint what would that make me? That is the problem with the NCAA. They are the development league, but they restrict individuals ability to participate based on academic side requirements. This is why I feel like the NCAA is such a malicious trust when it comes to hundreds of athletes who get locked out of the system who otherwise would be given a shot if a real development league were in place. While it is a bad analogy I feel restricting otherwise talented and qualified athletes from taking part at the college level because of test scores is no different than giving citizens voting tests to determine if they are smart enough to vote and exercise their rights as a citizen. Alright, thanks for the wonderful discussion during the boring months in-between football seasons that I wish the UFL played during! I have to head out but will be back later if you want to keep debating Throw in the last word and take care friend!

[canes21]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

So...

We both agree that there should be a developmental league for players who don't want to attend college.

We disagree on having to meet academic standards to play at the D1 level.

Can we leave it at that and ?

[agte]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

It is my understanding from reading posts of ex-NCAA players, they sign an agreement which protects the NCAA from lawsuits like this.

I haven't read this whole thing, but even when I signed my letter of intent to run track at a local NAIA school, there was a part in the letter that said the school could use my likeness (photos, videos, billboards, anything, etc.) for anything they wanted, or something along those lines....

That's part of why you should always read everything you sign

[UniversityofArizona]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

So...

We both agree that there should be a developmental league for players who don't want to attend college.

We disagree on having to meet academic standards to play at the D1 level.

Can we leave it at that and ?

Sounds good to me. I was only arguing in favor of not having to meet academic standards in the long term continued absence of a developmental league. I don't think any college fan wants to see a 40 year old washed up NFL qb playing against your favorite school who only has an 18 year old who chooses to spend time in class towards a degree. And I do realize you would still disagree with me on my point because we do need to keep what makes college sports special which is amateur 18-20 somethingish year old college students playing against each other regardless of a developmental league being in place.

[Pielet]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

I haven't read this whole thing, but even when I signed my letter of intent to run track at a local NAIA school, there was a part in the letter that said the school could use my likeness (photos, videos, billboards, anything, etc.) for anything they wanted, or something along those lines....

That's part of why you should always read everything you sign

Forcing someone to sign something in order to participate, how is that a legal "offer and acceptance" for a contract? More like coercion.

The language the NCAA uses for the likeness waiver is utterly ridiculous. It states they can use their likeness in "perpetuity in this or any other universe".

The people saying the players are getting paid via a scholarship should wake up. These schools could give two craps if these kids goto school or graduate. Their direct supervisors, the coaching staffs, frankly care more about saving their own jobs than guiding the academic careers of their players. A simple look at graduation rates proves this. In addition a scholarship after the first year can be pulled at will to maintain an 85 man roster. Simple use and abuse.

Good discussion on topic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e8I_IeM3L4&feature=relmfu

[bkrich83]

Re: Judge Nixes NCAA Players Antitrust Claims -- Case Not Over...Yet

Stop trying to complicate the issue. Its simple. College athletes are given a scholarship in exchange for them playing football....thats it. They dont agree to sign over their likeness rights.

Are you sure? It seems back in the day, you did sign a piece of paper that specifically did give away your likeness rights or basically it gave the school and the NCAA the rights to market themselves based on your likeness. Or something to that affect. (Gimme a break it was almost 20 yeas ago) . It came right after the speech from the FBI guy about the dangers of associating with gamblers on the first day of practice.

Maybe they don't do that anymore or maybe the concussions finally caught up to me.

[JerseySuave4]

Are you sure? It seems back in the day, you did sign a piece of paper that specifically did give away your likeness rights or basically it gave the school and the NCAA the rights to market themselves based on your likeness. Or something to that affect. (Gimme a break it was almost 20 yeas ago) . It came right after the speech from the FBI guy about the dangers of associating with gamblers on the first day of practice.

Maybe they don't do that anymore or maybe the concussions finally caught up to me.

no i believe they do it and you basically are signing your rights over for life.