Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

[tessl]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

Probably palms but op failed to say what attributes the corner and safety have. Play recognition and zone coverage.

Attributes matter in this game.

[ReturnoftheTmac]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

Looks like the right outcome to me - you love to see it!

In all seriousness, I'll let the defensive coordinators in this forum weigh in, but my understanding of Cover 4 Quarters is that the CB on the #1 receiver should have carried that route deep and not passed it off (MOD).

I think the Match rules for Cover 4 coverages break under varying idiosyncratic situations (as noted in the other defensive thread by Hooe), but from what I've read here, only Cover 3 Match plays stay consistently on their match rules under a broad variety of offensive sets.

I know there was a post that I can’t find anymore that talked about zones pretty good. It might have been more geared towards which disguises to call with what.

I am really interested and learning about specific zones and when to call them against what formations. I honestly didn’t know the difference with cover 4 palms and quarters and what kind of zones to call against 3x1 formations or a quads one?


Is there any guru that knows a simple breakdown or a video to recommend?

[UtahUtes32]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

Is there any guru that knows a simple breakdown or a video to recommend?

It's old but still accurate, here are the breakdowns by Anthony White himself (Madden dev):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8BzGutlusM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZBq3cfBJMM

[Hooe]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

Echoing that the coverage looks like Palms, not Quarters. At 0:05, the boundary CB on the 2-WR side triggers down to cover the slot out route right as he breaks (which immediately gets impeded by the apex defender, so it's hard to tell what it is at first glance).

It's hard to tell exactly what the play the offense is actually running, but my best guess is Gun Wing Slot Offset - Double Stick. It has to be a stick play of some sort because that's the only way to get an inline tight end to run a curl route which breaks away from the ball.

Generally speaking, Palms vs 2x2 is a situational call, you don't want to do it unless you know your opponent has a specific tendency to attack the short outside area from the slot. The way to avoid this behavior is to not call Palms against 2x2 sets.

[UtahUtes32]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

I went into practice mode and tested but I can't get the safety to play as bad as the OP.


Cover 4 Palms in Cover2 shell vs WR#1 streak, WR#2 5-yard out:


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[UtahUtes32]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

...It's hard to tell exactly what the play the offense is actually running, but my best guess is Gun Wing Slot Offset - Double Stick. It has to be a stick play of some sort because that's the only way to get an inline tight end to run a curl route which breaks away from the ball....

Yep, I can get the same behavior as OP when I run Palms in Cov2 shell vs Gun Wing Slot offset - Double Stick:


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LWyMyS0xeG0?si=C8ynfNkgeoGxDXR6" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Jagsfan24]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

I have had similar things happen to me where my corner bites on the underneath route for some reason when he should have the deep route covered. Maybe it's from poor awareness being low or something who knows but it's definitely frustrating

[PowerofRed25]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

Yep, I can get the same behavior as OP when I run Palms in Cov2 shell vs Gun Wing Slot offset - Double Stick:


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LWyMyS0xeG0?si=C8ynfNkgeoGxDXR6" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

One interesting difference between this and the OP's video is the redirect on the #2 WR. On yours, the Nickel redirects him outside then lets him go and the #2 WR correctly breaks at 5 yards on the option.

In the OP's video, the #2 WR is redirected inside and carried up the field and subsequently his route doesn't break until he's about 10 yards down the field. The difference is that the FS is able to react with the #1 WR still "in front" of him as opposed to 5 yards beyond.

I'm guessing there is a combination of shell disguise, inside/outside leverage and #2 WR/#2 Nickel/CB ratings that magnified the problem for the OP. It worked "as intended" but in a way that it probably shouldn't if the game was able to understand context.

[ReturnoftheTmac]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

It's old but still accurate, here are the breakdowns by Anthony White himself (Madden dev):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8BzGutlusM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZBq3cfBJMM

Awesome! Thank you, greatly appreciated

[ReturnoftheTmac]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

Is there a certain coverage I should run against a trips formation or quads? Does a bunch formation categorize in there? I’m guessing a zone that would cover more of one side of the field? Would a nickel cover 6 be good for that? Is there a certain nickel formation I should use?

[PowerofRed25]

Re: Is there a way to prevent my guys from completely blowing a coverage like this?

Is there a certain coverage I should run against a trips formation or quads? Does a bunch formation categorize in there? I’m guessing a zone that would cover more of one side of the field? Would a nickel cover 6 be good for that? Is there a certain nickel formation I should use?

Realistically, Trips and Quads should be defended the same way since structurally Quads isn't all that different from Trips with a HB leaking out of the backfield.

I tend to run Cover 6 or Cover 9 or any other sort of Quarter-Quarter-Half coverage but the adjustment I make to Quads is to manually control the backside hook zone to cheat to the Quads side or at least be ready to pick up a crosser. Cover 6 Willie is also really useful if a team is going Quads so they can isolate the solo WR and Cover 6 Invert if a team is isolating the solo WR to run streaks. Most of the time, I will sit in Nickel 33 Over or 33 (or 335) Mint.

I would also say that one of the best possible defenses vs Quads is the same as any Empty, blitz. Nickel 2 Trap and Tampa Sim Pressure in Nickel 33 Mint gives you the same underneath coverage as Cover 6 but with Half-Half and a Nickel Blitz to hopefully force the ball out.