Next Gen core engine is the same

[Jetpac]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

Building an entirely new engine did wonders for NBA Live. EA should definitely do the same for Madden.



Sarcasm aside, I think EA did the exact right thing to keep the same engine and build upon it. It's a shame that folks have such a short memory. Anyone recall how horrible Madden was when Xbox 360 launched. EA learned their lesson and decided to build an upgradable engine instead of trying to build everything from scratch.

Personally I think Madden 25 next gen is a solid improvement over the 360 and ps3 versions. The AI and general football strategy is MUCH improved.

I respectfully disagree. I'll post soon, very soon a lot of video I capture during reg. gameplay. MOST of it is just down right bad. Glitchy buggy robotic BAD.

[roadman]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

I respectfully disagree. I'll post soon, very soon a lot of video I capture during reg. gameplay. MOST of it is just down right bad. Glitchy buggy robotic BAD.

And I say you are going to see what you want to see. So, I'll respectfully disagree with the MOST part of your post. I'm just not seeing what you are seeing on ever single play, down after down, quarter after quarter.

Yeah, there's a few wonky stuff still going on during games, but overall, it doesn't dominate the games I'm playing.

[Bruce LeRoy]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

Or they complain about spacing, player movement, slow response, slow to set up plays, or how POE doesn't work or isn't implemented properly, or how defensive settings on court are gone, etc.

I love 2k14, I really enjoy the game, but there are some majorly disappointing issues with it, yet for some reason they get a pass from people like you. I don't get the blind brand loyalty.

2K is not getting a pass from anyone they have competition with NBA Live and anyone else who thinks they can make a better NBA sim is welcomed to try. 2K earned their respect Madden bought theirs. Madden is the one getting a pass from people like you, lets see... After 8 years they still haven't gotten gang tackling right, still no two man gang tackling, still no momentum or weight to players, foot - planting just got in this year, pass blocking just got improved this year, animations are still very stiff and robotic, every player has the same animations, no player individuality, penalties still rarely get called, the same animations play over and over again every game, still no wr/db interactions, still no real time presentation with the cut scenes, Qb drop backs and throwing animations are horrendous, still no custom camera angles, Road to Glory hasn't been touched in years, Tim Tebow is just as effective as Peyton Manning throwing the ball, the control schemes have remained the same since forever, and so on, now that I think about it, what did they even do last gen? Seems to me they did alot of nothing. But NBA 2K is getting a pass when Madden is not even on 2K's level on its worst day.

And not all of what I said is my opinion Cam Weber stated they were on a three year plan and the sales for Madden have been dropping.

[bkrich83]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

2K is not getting a pass from anyone they have competition with NBA Live and anyone else who thinks they can make a better NBA sim is welcomed to try. 2K earned their respect Madden bought theirs. Madden is the one getting a pass from people like you, lets see... After 8 years they still haven't gotten gang tackling right, still no two man gang tackling, still no momentum or weight to players, foot - planting just got in this year, pass blocking just got improved this year, animations are still very stiff and robotic, every player has the same animations, no player individuality, penalties still rarely get called, the same animations play over and over again every game, still no wr/db interactions, still no real time presentation with the cut scenes, Qb drop backs and throwing animations are horrendous, still no custom camera angles, Road to Glory hasn't been touched in years, Tim Tebow is just as effective as Peyton Manning throwing the ball, the control schemes have remained the same since forever, and so on, now that I think about it, what did they even do last gen? Seems to me they did alot of nothing. But NBA 2K is getting a pass when Madden is not even on 2K's level on its worst day.

And not all of what I said is my opinion Cam Weber stated they were on a three year plan and the sales for Madden have been dropping.

Where did I give Madden a pass exactly? Not sure what NBA Live has to do with anything.

The rest of this is just more of the tired rants and opinions we've already heard and are irrelevant to the conversation.

And not all of what I said is my opinion Cam Weber stated they were on a three year plan and the sales for Madden have been dropping.

Really reaching to try to counter me aren't you.

[jmo2278]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

The more I play, the more I feel like its a new engine actually. The problem is that they used the exact same animations as current gen so on the surface it looks like the same game engine as CG. Go to instant replay and watch the feet of various players and then do the same on CG and you will be able tell an obvious difference. Weight and momentum also factor more when running in next gen as players have to "chop" their feet to slow down and turn when running full speed. Passing also feels a little different too but I can't put my finger on what it is, seems like the ball has weight to it. (But if you look at replays the ball floats out of qb's hand just like in CG)

I play in leagues on both next gen and CG, and going back and forth there is a definite difference between the two. If Next gen actually had next gen graphics and animations then I think people wouldn't say it's the same engine. But I must say that the more I play the next gen version, the more I am impressed. At the end of the day it's still madden though. Just like 2k has a new engine but it still feels and looks like 2k on CG. It's just that 2k was a much better product to begin with.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

I had to chime in here. I've had a chance to log quite a few games now on the xbox one. I've absolutely been disgusted with Madden for about 10 years. IMO, it's been a horrendous rendition of the sport and I converted over to 2k after being a maddenite since its inception.

After playing about 20 games, I've played a bunch of different players ranging from the "cheese" types to the strict more sim style guys and for the first time in nearly a decade, I can say that I really enjoy the game. It's not there yet, but everything about it is better than what we have on current gen. The foot planting is the real deal, and is actually MORE realistic than APF2k8 foot planting. The player movement is MUCH more fluid and realistic. There are a lot more realistic animations and tackles which fit the context much more than before. Ball physics are better and you will see some really cool bobbled balls and drops. The line play is MUCH better and a lot more realistic.

Does this game still have a long way to go? Yes. However, it is a VERY good game of football and I am excited about where this can go (finally). I am expecting a LARGE improvement for next year's game and I think it will be a real gem.

I'm actually surprised to see people saying that the game "engine" is exactly the same. There is no "one single engine". Madden probably has 10 different "engines" for different facets of the game. There is no need for everything to be re-written from scratch. They did the right thing here. What needs to be done is it needs to be extended and improved each iteration. I think they are in a position where they can do that now. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt from a gameplay standpoint. At the very least, I am really glad that we finally have a REALLY good NFL game to play while we wait for next year's game. I loved 2k football (and still do) because I felt it was a FAR more realistic game, but Madden is starting to get there. The more you play, the more things you feel and see that are realistic and add a lot of merit to this game.

Let's see what happens going forward. They still have a lot of work to do to catch up to APF2k8 (IMO), but they are on the right track with this release.

[Old Mr T]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

You could say the same thing about NBA2k14, and will probably be able to for The Show. What's your point?

What does NBA2K have to do with anything? Isn't this the Madden Next Gen section?

[FaceMask]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

^^

Quality is a subjective word, quality to you is one thing, quality to others could mean something else.

Yes, of course. But we do have measurable standards that people have come to a consensus on and said "Okay, that's the standard. Madden needs to reach that". We can look and listen to other sports games and immediately see and hear what they have that Madden is missing.

For example, I don't think anyone would say Madden's halftime or postgame is on the same level as NFL 2K5's or even All-Pro Football's for that matter.

I don't think anyone would say Madden's animations are on the same level as MLB The Show's or NBA 2K's, and to a lesser extent All-Pro Football's.

I don't think anyone who is being honest would say that Madden's pocket formation is as consistent or as fundamentally sound as All-Pro Football's.

I don't think anyone would say that Madden's sideline interaction and recognition is on the same level as All-Pro Football's.

I don't think anyone would say Madden's commentary is on the same level as NBA 2K's or any of the 2K Football game's.

I don't think anyone would say Madden's presentation production values are better than even NBA Live's, and NBA Live is a terrible game.

Well, maybe someone who is getting paid by EA would say it or perhaps people who haven't really seen or heard those other games, but no one else.

Not sure what you mean by repeating the same mistakes??

You mentioned what you feel would've happened if they had started over and that it could've been a repeat of 06. To that, I said it didn't have to be; they could've started over and produced something great instead. But maybe it's me whose wrong for thinking that would be possible from them anymore. I just don't like putting mid-major level expectations on a top-major level gaming company.

They didn't repeat the same mistakes as 06, did they? Features aren't missing as in 06. 06, as you stated, was an unplayable game.

Never said they made the same mistakes with the game itself as they did '06, but then again it's hard to do when they're making what's essentially a port of a game they've been working with for almost a decade. Honestly, they could've packed a blank disc in and did better than Madden 06, so it's not saying much that this was better than the Madden 06 situation.

As far generational ports go, this game reminds me of the port over Midway made with Blitz The League from XBOX to XBOX 360. Some AI improvements, some graphical tweaks, some animation tweaks, but that's about it. And there is nothing wrong with that, it's just EA's marketing made it seem like this game was about to be THEE game, like they always do, and of course it certainly isn't that game.

They did however pull some shenanigans straight from the Madden 06 marketing campaign with the fake trailers.



That's just who they are, and they don't seem to understand why consumers have lost trust in them. You can't keep doing that sort of thing expecting gamers to look the other way.

I'm just going by this site, but the impression thread has been more favorable vs past Madden's and that's saying a lot.

It's still early. Of course, the sports gaming world extends far beyond just one site, and I have seen quite a few places where the reception is pretty bad, communities at Kotaku and YouTube in particular.

But, all that will matter in the end is sales to determine how successful this particular game is going to be this year. Let's remember that Madden 06 sold over 580,000 copies on just one console (360), and that was without a big trade-in promotion if I remember correctly. If they struggle to meet or exceed that or if they barely exceed it, we'll have to be honest that it just didn't do well and we'll have to be honest about the reasons why. I'm highly skeptical that even between two consoles XB1/PS4 that Madden will meet or exceed that number this time this season in the new generation, but we'll see.

We'll see where this series goes from here. I don't think it's time to get out the shovels, yet.

A lot will be riding in March.

I think the series has been dead for years now in a number of ways. It's just a matter of whether or not Tiburon can resurrect it at some point, but that seems impossible to happen this generation now that we know they've gone with the same engine and didn't redo their sub-par animations, all of which needed desperately to be redone.

Madden is only hanging around because there are no better options due to the licensing issue. If that ever changes and Madden Team thinks they can keep doing what they're doing now, they're going to wind up like the NBA Live Team in 3-5 years of fierce competition.

[FaceMask]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

I don't necessarily disagree, but it's not the point.

i think NBA2k14 is starting to show it's age as well as is The Show. 2K really dropped the ball on some major components of the game as well. To call it the shining example of simulating it's sport is deceiving.

Most of this is strictly opinion and still beside the original point that I was responding to.

Then what exactly is your point, because no one else is seeming to understand it either...

You said that a need for an engine overhaul can be said about NBA 2K and MLB The Show. I responded to that by saying that's untrue because those games are much farther along in maturity of replicating their sports and presenting their sports than Madden, and therefore didn't need an overhaul.

Yes, everything is an opinion. But let's not pretend that Madden is on the level of either of those games. NBA 2K has its issues, but it was/is the best basketball game around. They beat Live on the court, not at the licensing table like Madden had to do to beat its competition. So in the case of NBA 2K and The Show, they beat their rivals through simply producing a better product. And The Show's victory is particularly commendable considering they did it while having a game on just one console.

I2K really dropped the ball on some major components of the game as well. To call it the shining example of simulating it's sport is deceiving.

I'm willing to entertain that idea, I just need you to name one better example. I'm all ears.

As far as I can tell, the market has spoken and it chose NBA 2K and rejected NBA Live, and for reasons that are well documented. That's not deception, that's consumer demand. Madden remains alive only because that choice to choose another NFL Football game was taken away.

[roadman]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

Yes, of course. But we do have measurable standards that people have come to a consensus on and said "Okay, that's the standard. Madden needs to reach that". We can look and listen to other sports games and immediately see and hear what they have that Madden is missing.

For example, I don't think anyone would say Madden's halftime or postgame is on the same level as NFL 2K5's or even All-Pro Football's for that matter.

I don't think anyone would say Madden's animations are on the same level as MLB The Show's or NBA 2K's, and to a lesser extent All-Pro Football's.

I don't think anyone who is being honest would say that Madden's pocket formation is as consistent or as fundamentally sound as All-Pro Football's.

I don't think anyone would say that Madden's sideline interaction and recognition is on the same level as All-Pro Football's.

I don't think anyone would say Madden's commentary is on the same level as NBA 2K's or any of the 2K Football game's.

I don't think anyone would say Madden's presentation production values are better than even NBA Live's, and NBA Live is a terrible game.

Well, maybe someone who is getting paid by EA would say it or perhaps people who haven't really seen or heard those other games, but no one else.



You mentioned what you feel would've happened if they had started over and that it could've been a repeat of 06. To that, I said it didn't have to be; they could've started over and produced something great instead. But maybe it's me whose wrong for thinking that would be possible from them anymore. I just don't like putting mid-major level expectations on a top-major level gaming company.



Never said they made the same mistakes with the game itself as they did '06, but then again it's hard to do when they're making what's essentially a port of a game they've been working with for almost a decade. Honestly, they could've packed a blank disc in and did better than Madden 06, so it's not saying much that this was better than the Madden 06 situation.

As far generational ports go, this game reminds me of the port over Midway made with Blitz The League from XBOX to XBOX 360. Some AI improvements, some graphical tweaks, some animation tweaks, but that's about it. And there is nothing wrong with that, it's just EA's marketing made it seem like this game was about to be THEE game, like they always do, and of course it certainly isn't that game.

They did however pull some shenanigans straight from the Madden 06 marketing campaign with the fake trailers.



That's just who they are, and they don't seem to understand why consumers have lost trust in them. You can't keep doing that sort of thing expecting gamers to look the other way.



It's still early. Of course, the sports gaming world extends far beyond just one site, and I have seen quite a few places where the reception is pretty bad, communities at Kotaku and YouTube in particular.

But, all that will matter in the end is sales to determine how successful this particular game is going to be this year. Let's remember that Madden 06 sold over 580,000 copies on just one console (360), and that was without a big trade-in promotion if I remember correctly. If they struggle to meet or exceed that or if they barely exceed it, we'll have to be honest that it just didn't do well and we'll have to be honest about the reasons why. I'm highly skeptical that even between two consoles XB1/PS4 that Madden will meet or exceed that number this time this season in the new generation, but we'll see.




I think the series has been dead for years now in a number of ways. It's just a matter of whether or not Tiburon can resurrect it at some point, but that seems impossible to happen this generation now that we know they've gone with the same engine and didn't redo their sub-par animations, all of which needed desperately to be redone.

Madden is only hanging around because there are no better options due to the licensing issue. If that ever changes and Madden Team thinks they can keep doing what they're doing now, they're going to wind up like the NBA Live Team in 3-5 years of fierce competition.

It's ok, Facemask, you and I are on opposite pages and it's a good healthy discussion. My experience with the NG offering is much better than LG, similar to GiantBlue's above, and not similar to yours. We won't agree on that at all.

You feel the game is stuck in quicksand and can't get out, I don't. I feel they can build upon NG.

Even one of your "this game is better than this game" statements, I don't agree with. I couldn't stand Dan and Peter at all. Like finger nails on a chalkboard to me. I'll take Simms and Nantz any day of the week over them.

All a matter of opinion, isn't it?

To each their own.

We'll see how the holiday sales do.

And a poster above reminded us all that this is NG Madden and again, I'm guilty of responding to Madden vs everything else discussions.

Carry on.

[TombSong]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

The notable differences between CG and NG are:

1. NG, The juke animation /change of direction animations have added extra steps.
2. The Dline on passing plays break away from their blocks a half second to a second faster than CG.
3. They tweeked the ratings so that the defenders in zone react to the ball in the air event.
4. Marginal graphic update/3D crowd.

EVERYTHING else is the same as CG. There are no 50 more calculations going on or any of that market hype stuff going on. All you have to do is put both games in practice mode and run the same plays using the same teams and you will QUICKLY notice the NG players are not doing ANYTHING different from the CG players. It almost looks like you are watching the same replay of the same game except you know its 2 different consoles you are looking at.

The NG features could have been done on the CG system. The tweeks they made to the NG game have made playing defense little better because the offense can't just cut on a dime now and they have a second less time in the pocket. This has created the "illusion" that a lot has changed but NG is just a tweeked version of the CG game.(See for yourself observing the games playing side by side)

You have no control over how the pass rush attacks the QB. The dline is still tethered to the Oline.

The offense controls your defense pre-snap because any adjustments you make to how you set your defense are reset as soon the offense audibles.

The tweeks have made the game better from CG to a degree, but this is by NO means a NEW game like they hyped it to be.

[Bruce LeRoy]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

It's sicking to me that most people (at least on this board) are giving Madden a pass just because they don't have competition, especially when another NFL title was on the rise at the time EA purchased the exclusive NFL license. All I keep hearing is that Madden next-gen is better than the last gen version like thats some kind of monumental achievement. They have to wait for next gen technology to implement things in the game that was in another football game years ago and that other football game still does alot of things better than next gen Madden! But everyone wants to clown NBA Live because it's compared to NBA 2K mostly because of the player movement and animations are bad (just like Madden by the way.) It's about time people stop comparing Madden to its predecessors and start comparing it to where the game should be in 2013.

[TeeDogg]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

The notable differences between CG and NG are:

1. NG, The juke animation /change of direction animations have added extra steps.
2. The Dline on passing plays break away from their blocks a half second to a second faster than CG.
3. They tweeked the ratings so that the defenders in zone react to the ball in the air event.
4. Marginal graphic update/3D crowd.

EVERYTHING else is the same as CG. There are no 50 more calculations going on or any of that market hype stuff going on. All you have to do is put both games in practice mode and run the same plays using the same teams and you will QUICKLY notice the NG players are not doing ANYTHING different from the CG players. It almost looks like you are watching the same replay of the same game except you know its 2 different consoles you are looking at.

The NG features could have been done on the CG system. The tweeks they made to the NG game have made playing defense little better because the offense can't just cut on a dime now and they have a second less time in the pocket. This has created the "illusion" that a lot has changed but NG is just a tweeked version of the CG game.(See for yourself observing the games playing side by side)

You have no control over how the pass rush attacks the QB. The dline is still tethered to the Oline.

The offense controls your defense pre-snap because any adjustments you make to how you set your defense are reset as soon the offense audibles.

The tweeks have made the game better from CG to a degree, but this is by NO means a NEW game like they hyped it to be.

I think it actually took a few steps backwards from CG. true step is overrated and doesn't make the ball carrier move realistically in a lot of instances, at least not for an NFL RB. And 3 player physics is none existent n the PS4 I thought I just needed the right sliders but I cant find any. that was one thing that had me hooked on the 360. I saw some posts saying M25 needed gang tackling, I wondered what they were talking about. but after getting the next gen version I see what they meant. but on the 360 I could come and clean up the ball carrier without the original defender popping off. im not seeing players on the ground reaching out and slapping the ball carriers foot as he runs by causing stumbling. Not seeing ball carriers contextual awareness, ducking under to lunge for an extra yard, pushing defenders hands away.

I still think its a solid game but I was hoping to see all the things that made me praise M25 360 even if they didn't drastically improve

[Segagendude]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

I think next year's Madden will be a huge improvement over this iteration though. Animations, AI and graphics will improve a ton and be a lot less robotic.

Gee, that sounds familiar....

[BBallcoach]

Re: Next Gen core engine is the same

I'm one of the few who actually thinks madden is on the right track. Madden 14 made a huge leap from being robotic and played pretty well. I didn't buy Madden 25 CG but I bought NG and it is good. Like I will be playing the crap out of this game good.

I feel 90% of the madden forum nitpicks every little thing. And the comparisons to 2k5 are a joke. Anyone who thinks 2k5 is better than Madden 25 is saying that for the attention. I like 2k5 but it's no where near how good this madden plays. As long as EA doesn't repeat 06-13 again, I will be fine. They are already have a better foundation than they did in 06. I think next years madden will continue to improve this year's good start.