Madden: What to Look for Out of the NFL Offseason

[Hooe]

Re: Madden: What to Look for Out of the NFL Offseason

I understand what you are saying.. but would not adding more animations add to the disk size? take wr-db interaction for example... say they have 3 jamming animations at the line of scrimmage for each pairing of players (idk if they even have that much)... if they extended that animation to 15 or 20.. would data not go up? .... now imagine if each player and position was added animations by 10-20..etc. I am pretty sure disk size would increase.

I guess it just frustrates people to see 50 gb in one game.. but under 10 for an ea sports game. What would make madden a more quality game is more animations and fluidity. They can no longer use disk space as a crutch.

For keyframed animations, it'd be dependent on the number of bones and keyframes in the animations, but there's not a whole lot of information being stored in a keyframed animation beyond the positions of joints between bones at given points in time (each keyframe). You're talking maybe kilobytes of additional information for each additional quick and repeatable animation that would be useful for Madden, assuming that all of this ultimately gets compressed before getting stamped to the disc, to be decompressed by the software when the animation is needed by the game (i.e. during the "Loading" screen after team select and before a game starts).

The character geometry, the textures for the character, the texture mapping information which correctly places the textures on the geometry, and materials defining lighting and shading properties used by different pieces of the geometry are going to have much more impact on the size of the game than any keyframed animations.

You're more likely to see an impact on the game size if Tiburon decided on a whim to add 1000 arbitrary lines of commentary to the game, or if the NFL decided tomorrow to put a team in London and Tiburon had to add their home, road, and alternate uniform textures along with the stadium mesh and textures required for rendering that stadium.

[BizDevConglomerate]

If the "One Company" is Visual Concepts & 2k then you probably thought Robb Stark would take the Iron throne. Be real. The only company I want to see making sports games is the one making OOTPB, & BTSF. If not them, then the company who made backbreaker. Period. 2k hired an EA guy. And no offence, but we need Americans making American sports titles, with advisors being gamers and pro's if not we're not really getting 60$ worth. This joint needs to be unpredictable like it truly is.

[BizDevConglomerate]

The original assertion from the first reply in this thread was that quality games, regardless of genre, were ones with larger install sizes. That's what I have been responding to. That's absolutely not true and I've provided a large number of counterexamples to that end. There's simply no correlation.

Madden absolutely would not be a better game, for example, if the game was 10 GB and then EA Tiburon added 40 GB of NFL Films footage accessible via some hypothetical digital recreation of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, accessible only after you achieve a certain Legacy score with a player in Connected Franchise mode. This hypothetical version of Madden would still be a 50 GB game, but it'd play no better than last year's version.

To repeat myself from earlier, the thing that changes by adding more content with specific regard to a sports game is atmosphere and presentation. More content adds more player faces, more player-specific animations, more stadiums, more lines of commentary, etc. These things are nice and can make a good game great, but they cannot make a bad game good. A good game must stand up foremost solely on the gameplay itself. With respect to Madden, the offensive line play, WR-DB interaction, defensive play calling AI, defensive run fits, and what not don't magically improve because the game has a bigger disc footprint. Seeing those gameplay mechanics addressed are the things that everyone in the simulation sports community wants, and those things are almost entirely code implementation and refactoring (admittedly with some supporting animation additions will be needed, yes, but that's a difference on a scale of megabytes, not gigabytes).

I hear you loud and clear, but if they used more space to go in depth and add Vetter content, then it would make sense. One thing I don't realize is why there hasn't been a more deeper and functionality of DLC. REALLY. Every game and company. I've been crying this out for two years now. All they need to do is make a thorough foundation, the console have over 300gee bee, and can be expanded. Why not max that out. I play sports primarily, so Give me 100 each for my sports. And I'll play happily. Update the games Bi-yearly. With out that happening, then fix is in. There is no need to complain. We see what is going on. Stop buying the games and they will change.

It's nonesense, we don't have a College BBall game, why, it won't sell? No. College sports are enjoyed by more ppl than pro sports for their passion and stories. Now there's now football. And no imported rosters. This is wack. When we hear of changes, the change that was needed was a better design, plan, and customer experience going forward. Not dictated gameplay. This is bull, look at MLB The Show, their bring this online this and online that for the nice features, if the offline doesn't support the same then we know what time it is.

[Demoncrom]

I remember when a certain other company used to make NFL football games and I played 15 full seasons straight on it in a matter of almost a season per week. So many in fact that my made up player retired and when I was done there were no more REAL names on my team. This was possible due to a a wonderful sim engine, awesome sound and presentation and a game that just kicked booty.

A decade later I play Madden for maybe 2 seasons and get so annoyed with the AI that I just stop playing the game outright. I miss playing a game where the stats counted and the games had ebb and flow. Too bad we will not be enjoying that level of fun any time soon. Thanks to EA and the NFL stifling the sport I love.

[BizDevConglomerate]

But you don't think that company is stifling us? I do. The amount of customization can take their non licrsed game full of quality and make it an everlasting game. OOTPB proved it. They have names, faces but no license. Because you don't need a license to use names or faces. 2k could do this. EA is paying them I bet. And they gladly accept. I bet. Why would they care. They have proved with the latst next gen game a lackluster approach will still yield millions and loyalty. Look at you, and all the other 2k apologists. Sports Gaming is dead as we know it. It's all about war games, and intelligence. Hype and frills flood the consoles today. It's the best way to see if your war ready, or doing wrong. I'm sure sad too. I miss good gaming.

[Demoncrom]

But you don't think that company is stifling us? I do. The amount of customization can take their non licrsed game full of quality and make it an everlasting game. OOTPB proved it. They have names, faces but no license. Because you don't need a license to use names or faces. 2k could do this. EA is paying them I bet. And they gladly accept. I bet. Why would they care. They have proved with the latst next gen game a lackluster approach will still yield millions and loyalty. Look at you, and all the other 2k apologists. Sports Gaming is dead as we know it. It's all about war games, and intelligence. Hype and frills flood the consoles today. It's the best way to see if your war ready, or doing wrong. I'm sure sad too. I miss good gaming.

2K apologist, where are you getting your ignorant ideas from? 2K released a decent football sim with AP2K8. Most of you did not buy the game. I purchased it 2 times. The problem is too many idiots are more concerned with the NFL license and player names and likeness to care about the GAME. So please get your facts in check you seriously do not know what you are talking about.

Backbreaker was another experiment on that same line of thought and while not great it was a start and no one supported it.

[regroc88]

Madden EA can't even get the player's Races rite. EA has a Long Way to go and it aint gonna happen in a yrs! there Still lightyears Behind NFL Fever. lol

[CyberRudy25]

I've been asking for presentation mode for 5-10 years. If its about the money . They Should come out With an ESPN network game that would have broadcasters and websites and magazines covers and breaking news. we would save our highlights and upload them. Than the Espn game would present them for us in our online league or regular league. The ESPN Network game would give us weekly updates and be a shine and hall of fame for highlights and stats for many seasons. That way ea can brand ESPN making more money, Since they dont want to include in the game. People that don't want it can simply not buy it.

[Hellisan]

I don't even pretend to know what the sales figures for Madden are. I haven't played the game seriously since the day I started getting hooked on NCAA, but I think most of us can agree that NCAA, while having some superior aspects, is basically similar in quality overall. The thing I'd like to disagree on is that they have no incentive. If they made a game that was truly great quality, then hopefully it would sell so incredibly well that it would put to shame all prior sales numbers. If reviewers started playing the game and noticed real piling effects at the line of scrimmage (and especially the goal line), real downfield interaction between the WR/DB's, real pockets for the QB to throw from, they would be blown away, and a new threshold would be established. Like most here I agree that won't happen anytime soon.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Madden: What to Look for Out of the NFL Offseason

Disc footprint has absolutely no correlation with game quality. It is solely the amount of content (specifically textures, audio, meshes, and other game assets) used in the game. Rather, it's how the developers use the content that affects the quality of the game.

I wish I could say that this was the first time I've said this on this forum.

Does it not stand to reason that more memory devoted to textures will, all things equal, give a better looking game? Or to put it in another way: if you have two development teams with THE SAME SKILL, which one is more likely to look better? The one with more memory devoted to textures, etc, or the one less devoted to textures?

Look, your argument would be true if what you said was "larger game size does not ALWAYS correlate with quality," but instead you said "larger game size DOES NOT correlate with quality." The problem is, of course, that the evidence contradicts your argument, as it is stated. Generally speaking, these other sports games are simply better than Madden. Do you deny it?

Particularly when it comes to NBA 2K, the comparison isn't even close.

You think file size has NOTHING to do with this?



I'll tell you right now a game looking this good requires more memory per unit area/volume than Madden does; more memory per unit code with lighting, etc. Not even a possibility that it doesn't, in all reasonableness. Frankly, NBA 2K Next Gen looks like it was made on a Next NEXT gen console in comparison. What a coincidence that it is more than twice as big... definitely game size has nothing whatsoever to do with that...

I mean, come on, man. You can't really believe what you just posted.

[David Brown]

There needs to be more depth put into Madden. A better trading system like NBA 2K. Have player asking to be traded. Teams asking for your players in a trade. Players not happy with their playing time and the list could go on. If 2K can do this on basketball why not EA on football?

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: Madden: What to Look for Out of the NFL Offseason

I want Mini Camps!

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Madden: What to Look for Out of the NFL Offseason

Disc footprint has absolutely no correlation with game quality. It is solely the amount of content (specifically textures, audio, meshes, and other game assets) used in the game. Rather, it's how the developers use the content that affects the quality of the game.

I wish I could say that this was the first time I've said this on this forum.

Not many people seem to be on board with this but your point is true - the subject is resource allocation.

On topic, I would prefer for Madden to allocate more money into the gameplay factors eg; true-to-life physical momentum transfers and less money into media and marketing eg; signature cards in MUT?

Resouce Allocation is about doing this with that and doing it in the most economical way that garners a perfect efficiency quotient ( see pareto efficiency ) of production and profit.

In related perspective, all 32 NFL teams have a roster quota and salary cap but not all NFL teams use their resources the same way - the championship is also not gauranteed to the organization who spends the most but the healthiest organization is the one who gets the biggest bang for their buck in terms of cost per victory.

When these teams hit the field they also do not employ the same base defense: 3-4 vs 4-3 and there is diversity among those sets. In the same way, Madden must make changes in regards to how thier personell are empowered to use their talents and create a game that is playing at a gold standard and not some make**** craft that is below the means of what they have the capacity to afford.

In my opinion, Madden is clearly Nickle and Diming us, like this business between us and them is like a game of Madden, when they should really be digging deep and putting 8 in the box so as to stop the franchise from being trambled on by those who continue to attack the title.

I don't think these guys see a 4th QTR in sight and they believe that if it should ever appear: they will be ahead of the opponents by a wide margin - I think that's their delusion: that they regard their product in the class of highest worth, indestructible and flawless: "the opponents have no chance" but sometimes it is the giant who brings his own undoing and not the underdog or pack of minions.

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