Rebuilding the Off-season

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  • DeuceDouglas
    Madden Dev Team
    • Apr 2010
    • 4297

    #16
    Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

    Originally posted by Trick13
    That is why I think the DEV rating should be hidden for two years - meaning any player acquired by user teams should have no package available, and no indicator of DEV level for two seasons. Whether it is a rookie draft pick, a FA signee, or a player you trade for - but let's be honest - someone will do a guide and we will all have that info anyhow for players already in the league, shortly there after a draft class guide.
    I would be on board with this and even go as far as to say that certain attributes should be somewhat blurred or hidden for like a year as well even after you sign or draft them. That's kind of what I would like to see with a chemistry rating. I wouldn't mind seeing Free Agency handled similar to scouting where you don't get a crystal clear picture of exactly what you're getting. Maybe you have a GM with ratings or a Player Personnel position on your staff that contributes to how much info you have on free agents and the longer guys have been in the league, a more clear picture you have.

    Originally posted by Trick13
    To be honest, I think some of this should be tied to a setting. Again, NCAA just this last year had variable difficulties within the game play - so why not have separate settings for user/cpu "roster management" and scouting. That way, people have options, and maybe what you are talking about in terms of zero grades or numbers can be a level of difficulty beyond/above All-Madden.
    I was actually just thinking about something like this the other day. I'm sure people would love to scout and just know exactly what players attributes are from the jump and that's fine but put something in the franchise settings where you have it from Easy to like Very Difficult so that you can take it to that next level. I really wish they would add the variable difficulty too where you can choose different levels for each part of the game but the whole slider discussion is one for another day or week even.

    Back to the scouting though, one thing I didn't really hit on with the mock-ups and the letter grades in those is with something like that as well, the key thing is not knowing exact details when it comes to certain attributes. That's where I think the current scouting system fails. If you scout something and it's an A, you immediately know it's good. There's no point to scouting it further just to pinpoint the number because you already know it's high. There's nothing dynamic about it. What I wanted to accomplish is the fact that you get all this data from the 'experts' and scouts but none of it gives you a clear, pinpoint lock on anything. Even the raw data can still leave a cloud of mystery if there is a discrepancy among times between combine and pro days and what not. If you have a bad scout, he might say his man coverage is A+ when in reality it is a 78. The entire crew of experts might say a QB's AWR is A+ but it turns out he's actually a scrub with 53. This is where the boom/bust factor plays into things as well as the diamond picks late in the draft. As it is now, you can scout a guy and basically reveal the fact that he is what EA considers a "gem" because he is a 5th round projection with great ratings. Scout a RB and get a bunch of A's on key attributes and you already know. The CPU doesn't know, so they won't take him until at best the fourth. So what do you do? You take a fifth round projected in the second or third round and get a stud. I personally think that concept is beyond stupid. With this way, the prospects are all on some kind of global scale where their projections are more or less the same among experts and scouts and the mock grades kind of fall into that. There's a reason he's a grades out as a sixth round prospect. But it doesn't change the fact that just because everybody gave him D's and C's on his attributes that he won't come out and potentially shine.

    Which brings me to the next point about scouts and rating them. What would be consider an excellent scout shouldn't counteract all of this by just working like the current system where their feedback is so close to the exact numbers that it makes it too easy. There should still be a decent gap in between him saying something is a B and it potentially ranging from 70 to 90, not just somewhere in the 80's. The greatest of scouts get things wrong. And that's where the difficulty setting comes in. I understand some people don't want to deal with stuff like this, so let them set it to Easy and be fine with it. But for online leagues and solo franchise goers, give them the option to take it to the next level and make it as easy or tough as they want.

    I rambled on way more than I figured I would there so I apologize for that.

    Comment

    • vc3616
      Pro
      • Aug 2010
      • 877

      #17
      Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

      if just half of any of this was implemented id buy madden day one but unfortunately this game is made for third graders so here's to wishing

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk
      Iverson forever

      Comment

      • Trick13
        Pro
        • Oct 2012
        • 780

        #18
        Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

        Originally posted by DeuceDouglas
        I...

        I rambled on way more than I figured I would there so I apologize for that.





        I like a lot of your thoughts there, especially the idea of variables within combine/pro day numbers - but I want to emphasize that what we have now is just plain dumb - no indication at all of physical abilities is beyond frustrating.


        I really want EA to make some tweaks within the non storyline players -
        1. random assignment of DEV level, so guides will be all but useless
        2. random assignment of confidence and consistency from 1-3
        3. no more do I want to see AWR directly linked to DEV or OVR -
        some fast/superstar DEV players should be "raw" or less "pro ready"
        than some higher OVR players with "slow/average" DEV
        4. no more cartoon garbage - 80 plus speed DTs don't exist, 60 speed LBs/
        safeties don't exist - no CB with the 40 time equivalent of 75 speed
        would ever get a contract as an UDFA, never mind get drafted
        5. The difference between great players and washouts/busts is almost
        never differences in physical ability - it is the mental/technical/training
        aspects of Pro ball that crush some players. To replicate this EA should
        place greater emphasis within game play on position specifics - IE the
        the "techniques" of the game - MCV/ZCV/PRS/BSH/FMV/PMV/AWR/
        RR/BPR/ - there was a thought that spreading the ratings should be
        done to replicate different abilities - a thought I agree with, but once
        again EA failed miserably in the execution - the idea they had was
        "stretching" the physical differences - where I believe they should have
        "stretched" the "technique/intangible" disparities and then reworked
        how they "calculate results" within the game play.


        5A - example - route run - currently the only function route run as a rating is that it determines a player's ability to separate from MCV - but this misses the mark - RR should be much more far reaching - precision of routes should be dictated by RR - low RR players should run routes inconsistently - 5 yard outs become 7 yard outs or 3 yard outs - messes with timing and can shrink passing "windows" - against zone coverage RR should determine depth of crossing routes and whether a "covered player" will move to the "soft spot" in the zone. Slant routes RR should determine if the receiver can get across the defender's face and if the cut timing is precise. Things like this is where EA should make player skill differences more "spread out"...

        Comment

        • DeuceDouglas
          Madden Dev Team
          • Apr 2010
          • 4297

          #19
          Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

          Made up a few draft screenshots just for the hell of it. The idea is to make the draft more appealing to the eyes and ears and less boring and bland while doing it.

          This first one is the basic draft look. Ticker at the bottom constantly scrolling picks and future selections. Sidebar on the right to scroll through team needs and selections plus future picks. Middle area is where your collection of boards is at, experts, scouts, user, the works. Click on a player to bring up his player card with collection of data. Twitter feed is in the top right and actually looks like twitter with draft related tweets including tweets from the teams official twitter. At the bottom you can see Jacksonville's selection is in and that would be accompanied by the classic draft chime.



          This is after the selection has been made. Cleveland is already on the clock and it shows the name, college, and position of the player selected by Jacksonville. All pretty simple stuff.



          This is where the biggest change would come to the draft. This is where it showcase the pick and basically go through a few lines of positives and negatives about the player. They don't have to be specific to the fact that the guy got kicked out of college for punching an opposing player or anything like the storylines we have now. Just basic draft analysis of the player. In this case I think being extremely general is completely okay as long as you have an abundance of lines so we don't hear the same thing about every big corner or every small QB. I would like to hear a guy like Kiper or McShay or Mayock breaking down the picks for at least the first couple rounds with just basic draft banter. Then in the later rounds you can go through and show like the last five or ten picks and have them pick out one to talk about and say something like

          "Who stands out to you in these last 10 picks, Mel?" "Well, you look at the Bears and they're getting a very smart inside linebacker, doesn't have ideal speed but makes up for it with his recognition and burst. This is a guy that is always around the ball. Really like this pick for them."

          Just little things that are constantly going so it feels like you're in an actual draft and not just waiting for one of the ten non-existent stories to pop up to break up the monotony.



          I didn't really want to put the attributes on the player card but the way I look at it, I don't really see anything against it really. You get to see what other guys that are picked ahead of your pick are rated in real time and it would make it kind of cool to see your guy when you pick him like that. I wouldn't be against just having like combine numbers up there or something else to not give something like that away so quickly.
          Last edited by DeuceDouglas; 03-29-2014, 06:45 PM.

          Comment

          • Fly8Eagles4Fly
            Rookie
            • Aug 2011
            • 54

            #20
            Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

            Wow. This is all great stuff. The mock ups look great and would add much needed depth into the franchise mode again.

            I liked the idea of restricted FA and compensatory picks from the original post. Restricted FA should have never been taken out.
            Check out my site: http://www.eaglesdaily.com

            Comment

            • ItsKB
              Just started!
              • Apr 2014
              • 4

              #21
              Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

              Would def love EA to include at least some ideas into next Madden

              Comment

              • DeuceDouglas
                Madden Dev Team
                • Apr 2010
                • 4297

                #22
                Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

                Another thing I'd like to see is the free agency stages extend beyond the draft. I really despise day by day calendar processes and much prefer the stages to them but I would just like to see some more free agency stages after the draft. It sucks that you do free agency and the draft and then any free agent you sign after that period is forced to sign a one year deal. I'd like to see free agency start in like stage 2 or 3 and just have it continue through the whole offseason with the draft somewhere in the middle.

                Comment

                • OgDominoo
                  Banned
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 17

                  #23
                  Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

                  Wassup Deuce I seen your ratings for teddy bridgewater an they look pretty good an realistic do you have full player ratings for rookies ? An if you do you mind posting ? Would sure preciate it

                  Comment

                  • DeuceDouglas
                    Madden Dev Team
                    • Apr 2010
                    • 4297

                    #24
                    Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

                    Originally posted by OgDominoo
                    Wassup Deuce I seen your ratings for teddy bridgewater an they look pretty good an realistic do you have full player ratings for rookies ? An if you do you mind posting ? Would sure preciate it
                    Nah I don't have any more ratings. I was just winging it for the sake of the mock up. I might do some more mock ups like that one with different players in the future though.

                    Comment

                    • OgDominoo
                      Banned
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 17

                      #25
                      Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

                      Originally posted by DeuceDouglas
                      Nah I don't have any more ratings. I was just winging it for the sake of the mock up. I might do some more mock ups like that one with different players in the future though.
                      Aw ok , do u have a formula on how you create rookies ?

                      Comment

                      • Caveman24
                        MVP
                        • Jul 2011
                        • 1350

                        #26
                        Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

                        They had the offseason down packed with the HC series. If EA some how can rework the FA logic,add in fictional agents with different wants/needs along with the draft combine etc then they might be on the right track. I love talking about these ideas all dat sadly EA isn't going to listen to us. Good work though Deuce someone should hire you!
                        Online Championship Wrestling

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                        • DeuceDouglas
                          Madden Dev Team
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 4297

                          #27
                          Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

                          Originally posted by OgDominoo
                          Aw ok , do u have a formula on how you create rookies ?
                          Not really. I just go off the scouting report of pro's and con's for the guys and then try to make their ratings fall in line with that as well as where they were selected or in this case projected to go in the draft.

                          Originally posted by Caveman24
                          They had the offseason down packed with the HC series. If EA some how can rework the FA logic,add in fictional agents with different wants/needs along with the draft combine etc then they might be on the right track. I love talking about these ideas all dat sadly EA isn't going to listen to us. Good work though Deuce someone should hire you!
                          I don't think what they have now is really that bad. It's just too bland and simplistic. Free agency needs to be more complicated than just throwing money at guys and having them accept or deny over a three stage period. The draft is the same way. Scouting is dull and far too easy. The actual draft presentation is absolutely awful. The cap really never seems to be an issue because of the way salaries work. The things here aren't major things, the draft overhaul would be the biggest and really the majority of it is UI and voice over stuff. I still wish they would change the CFM UI too but sadly like most of the things within it, I don't think there will be much changed on a whole.

                          Comment

                          • OgDominoo
                            Banned
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 17

                            #28
                            Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

                            I'm giving madden the benefit of the doubt . This is the same game as previous gen just with a few next gen tweaks but I think with the new systems EA is going to surprise us with madden 15

                            Comment

                            • Caveman24
                              MVP
                              • Jul 2011
                              • 1350

                              #29
                              Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

                              Originally posted by DeuceDouglas
                              I don't think what they have now is really that bad. It's just too bland and simplistic. Free agency needs to be more complicated than just throwing money at guys and having them accept or deny over a three stage period. The draft is the same way. Scouting is dull and far too easy. The actual draft presentation is absolutely awful. The cap really never seems to be an issue because of the way salaries work. The things here aren't major things, the draft overhaul would be the biggest and really the majority of it is UI and voice over stuff. I still wish they would change the CFM UI too but sadly like most of the things within it, I don't think there will be much changed on a whole.
                              No it is that bad. The free agency logic is horrible. Players take no moeny at all which hurts online leagues alot. Along with the fact that the free agents have no logic. Peyton Manning will leave the Broncos to sign with the Titans?! I'm like huh? They need to add different player types and they want in FA like they did in Live.

                              Spoiler


                              Something like that will put alot of parody in leagues especially in online leagues. Lets say AP is 31 his body breaking down. Do you really think he would say "I'm a sign with the Jaguars instead of the Patriots". Hell no most of the time IRL there's logic behind what most players do. On madden in the off-season there isn't any. They need to scrap the way scouting works as well like you said. NO scount nor coach has that much on players before they step on the field.

                              I think it was NCAA scouting that gave you a range? Something like 81-94? Now something like that it give you a guessament not an automatic number on a college kid before he even steps on the field. If it was like that then Brady would've gone 1st round there be no guys like Alfred Morris. I would like for a more challenging off-season but we won't get it honestly.
                              Online Championship Wrestling

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                              • DeuceDouglas
                                Madden Dev Team
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 4297

                                #30
                                Re: Rebuilding the Off-season

                                Originally posted by Caveman24
                                No it is that bad. The free agency logic is horrible. Players take no moeny at all which hurts online leagues alot. Along with the fact that the free agents have no logic. Peyton Manning will leave the Broncos to sign with the Titans?! I'm like huh? They need to add different player types and they want in FA like they did in Live.

                                Spoiler


                                Something like that will put alot of parody in leagues especially in online leagues. Lets say AP is 31 his body breaking down. Do you really think he would say "I'm a sign with the Jaguars instead of the Patriots". Hell no most of the time IRL there's logic behind what most players do. On madden in the off-season there isn't any. They need to scrap the way scouting works as well like you said. NO scount nor coach has that much on players before they step on the field.

                                I think it was NCAA scouting that gave you a range? Something like 81-94? Now something like that it give you a guessament not an automatic number on a college kid before he even steps on the field. If it was like that then Brady would've gone 1st round there be no guys like Alfred Morris. I would like for a more challenging off-season but we won't get it honestly.
                                I don't know. I'm not saying it can't be better but I'm willing to be a little bit more willing to understand the kind of randomness with free agency. But it definitely can be better. I kind of hit on something that would work to this before with the chemistry factor. You look at guys like Red Bryant and Chris Clemons and you'd think "why would you ever go from a team like the Seahawks to the Jaguars?". Well, the Jaguars head coach is the former Seahawks DC so you'd have to figure a large portion of that decision is based on ease of transition and knowledge of scheme. Which brings me to another point that I really hate the fact that players are locked into one type of scheme and player type.

                                I feel like all players should have like a scheme knowledge/fit rating or bar that determines how familiar they are with EVERY particular scheme as well as how well they fit into a given scheme. I think there should be something very similar for each playbook so that you can't just sign guys off the street in the middle of the season and plug them in immediately if they're not familiar with your scheme/playbook. And conversely, if you're trying to sign a player in the off-season that is very unfamiliar with the given scheme and a poor fit with your team, it's going to take more money for him to even consider your team and more than likely, you won't even be on his list. Something like this would also allow you to draft a player that maybe might not be the best scheme fit, but a better overall player and then have him grow within your system over time.

                                You could throw money, scheme fit/knowledge, playbook knowledge, location, playing time, and stuff along those lines into a player personality type thing but the only thing I worry about with it is having it be like things are now where there is no complexity to it. What I mean is say there is a guy that his highest priority is money, so he just takes the most money every single time. These have to be things that fluctuate as a player ages, as he gets hurt, as he doesn't play, as his team wins or loses, so on and so on. Everything needs to be dynamic with some complexity, not this cut and dry stuff we currently have.

                                So in short, on a whole I don't think it's that bad, but when you think about how much further and better you could possibly take it with just little tweaks and additions, it really is that bad.

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