Was/has there been any franchise info released?

[jeb4056]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Ok Clint said we would be getting info about CFM very soon and that was on the 19th. I'm hoping we don't have to wait that much longer.

Depends on what "very soon" means to him...could be weeks, lol

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

I think it is fair to say that we all want to see editable and creatable draft classes, but if EA does not come through (which is very likely) at the very least they need to quit it with their stupid names thing they seem to be on.

Do they think they are being witty or cute or something? If I see anything like "Sir Economy" again I...I...I will complain on a message board about it!!

Seriously though, knock it off EA. Randomize names if you cannot resist the urge. At this point I would prefer a white guy named Tyrese or something.

[msdm27]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

I think it is fair to say that we all want to see editable and creatable draft classes, but if EA does not come through (which is very likely) at the very least they need to quit it with their stupid names thing they seem to be on.

Do they think they are being witty or cute or something? If I see anything like "Sir Economy" again I...I...I will complain on a message board about it!!

Seriously though, knock it off EA. Randomize names if you cannot resist the urge. At this point I would prefer a white guy named Tyrese or something.

But seriously, if not ratings.... LET US EDIT APPEARANCE!!!! Or what, does this mess with XP as well?

Customizable draft classes would, literally, solve the majority of longevity issues with CFM. As it is now, one can't play the mode after a couple of years without losing it

- White guys in pics that are actually black
- Super skinny and fast DT's
- CB's with Powerlifter strength
- Ztupid-A¤¤ names!!!!!!!

Just to name a few immersion killers.

[Kornnut]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

We need to combine back. That was the best part of the offseason was the drills to put players through. Also the senior bowl game/all star game in the offseason. I don't mind the scouting or practice. I like the XP system being slow to build players. That way you don't have a team of all 99 everywhere.

[thudias]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Depends on what "very soon" means to him...could be weeks, lol

Is August 26th "very soon" enough?

[elchristo]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

on ea sports madden facebook page i asked em that we should be able to have custom divisions just like you can in ncaa. It would be nice when the jacksonville jaguars move to england in the game if you can put it in the afc east instead of having it in the afc south.

[Hooe]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

I remain unconvinced that removing the gameplay statistical rewards for the XP progression system is a good idea.

To boil down my opinion to a sentence or two - since I've already explained my opinion in detail elsewhere - the core tenet of my argument is that whatever progression system exists must derive from and reinforce the core gameplay. An out-of-game preparation-driven progression system does not do this because it is completely disjoint from the core gameplay and therefore not good game design. On the contrary, the current system reinforces the core gameplay by rewarding the user for playing the game and therefore is good game design, and pretty standard game design at that. Realism never enters the conversation for me, as it is no object in the discussion as to whether a gameplay mechanic in a video game is strong or weak.

If someone can convince me that removing the gameplay -> progression -> gameplay feedback loop works, I'll stand down. However, the few games which have tried this reversal were weaker because of it, IMO, and removing that user feedback loop goes against everything I have ever been taught about strong game design.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

I remain unconvinced that removing the gameplay statistical rewards for the XP progression system is a good idea.

To boil down my opinion to a sentence or two - since I've already explained my opinion in detail elsewhere - the core tenet of my argument is that whatever progression system exists must derive from and reinforce the core gameplay. An out-of-game preparation-driven progression system does not do this because it is completely disjoint from the core gameplay and therefore not good game design. On the contrary, the current system reinforces the core gameplay by rewarding the user for playing the game and therefore is good game design, and pretty standard game design at that. Realism never enters the conversation for me, as it is no object in the discussion as to whether a gameplay mechanic in a video game is strong or weak.

If someone can convince me that removing the gameplay -> progression -> gameplay feedback loop works, I'll stand down. However, the few games which have tried this reversal were weaker because of it, IMO, and removing that user feedback loop goes against everything I have ever been taught about strong game design.

Quick point about the bold, then I'll discuss the post in general. I really don't understand how anyone can logically take this stance when it has been confirmed time and time again by the creators of Madden, that it is intended to be a NFL simulation, ie as realistic as applicably possible. It would seem that a career mode and it's player progression system, meant to simulate NFL seasons, would fall with in that goal.

To the rest of the post, I think those that take issue with the XP system, mainly do so because it doesn't follow a logical path, which is essential for a progression system. I have touched on it before, as have others, that there needs to be a more targeted XP system that at least rewards applicable progress for what's actually being done.

I'm not really disagreeing with your point that it's a good premise to have a progression system where the User can be directly involved in micromanagement of progression vs delegating it through coach staff, player time and play calling but I think both can be accomplished. The issue here is, like many things in Madden, the implementation of XP progression and the way it functions in-game.

[bucky60]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

I remain unconvinced that removing the gameplay statistical rewards for the XP progression system is a good idea.

I remain unconvinced that gameplay statistical rewards for XP progression is a good idea.

If someone can convince me that removing the gameplay -> progression -> gameplay feedback loop works, I'll stand down. However, the few games which have tried this reversal were weaker because of it

NBA2K, MLB The Show, Sierra Front Page Sports. Madden 12. I think they are better because they don't have a micromanaging gameplay->progression->gameplay loop. For the exact same reasons Big described in the post above. When emulating something that exists, such as a sports league, and emulating a franchise in that sport, a realistic progression system is the only thing that really makes sense.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

I remain unconvinced that gameplay statistical rewards for XP progression is a good idea.




NBA2K, MLB The Show, Sierra Front Page Sports. Madden 12. I think they are better because they don't have a micromanaging gameplay->progression->gameplay loop. For the exact same reasons Big described in the post above. When emulating something that exists, such as a sports league, and emulating a franchise in that sport, a realistic progression system is the only thing that really makes sense.

Hey bucky60, do you think that an XP progression system can be implemented to function in a realistic way or that there would have to be two separate systems, one XP and the other realistic?

I ask because, like I mentioned in another post that no one seemed to understand and/or care for, I think it's possible to maybe have a realistic or at least real world logical, XP progression system.

[Hooe]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

I really don't understand how anyone can logically take this stance when it has been confirmed time and time again by the creators of Madden, that it is intended to be a NFL simulation, ie as realistic as applicably possible. It would seem that a career mode and it's player progression system, meant to simulate NFL seasons, would fall with in that goal.

Because Madden is a video game. Simple as that.

Tiburon and all sports game developers pay a ton of lip service to "simulation", but a ton of the stuff Tiburon has added to Madden so far this year so far balances video game playability and real-life emulation; be it more user interaction on the defensive line (new DL controls/animations and success/fail UI), a better camera for playing on defense to help the user play defense better, a context-sensitive tackle assist reticle so that players more reliably attack opposing ball carriers, etc. etc.

To the rest of the post, I think those that take issue with the XP system, mainly do so because it doesn't follow a logical path, which is essential for a progression system. I have touched on it before, as have others, that there needs to be a more targeted XP system that at least rewards applicable progress for what's actually being done.

I don't see how rewarding a user for playing a game well isn't logical. It has proven examples of effectiveness in every genre of video games. Madden's progression path is completely logical; play football well, earn XP. It's not a path entirely grounded in reality, no, but it's quite logical; reward the user for playing the video game well.

As to a more targeted XP system - I'm assuming this is one where rushing achievements earn XP which can be spent on rushing ratings, passing achievements yields XP for passing ratings, and so on - this is an additional layer of complexity which can work if communicated well to the user. I like the idea, but it needs good UI to support it.

I remain unconvinced that gameplay statistical rewards for XP progression is a good idea.

Why? How is rewarding a user for playing a video game well a bad idea? What's the more engaging alternative for the average video game user?

When emulating something that exists, such as a sports league, and emulating a franchise in that sport, a realistic progression system is the only thing that really makes sense.

This is the central point of our butting heads and once again I could not disagree more strongly.

A primary mark of a good video game - regardless of genre - is that it engages the user and makes the user feel directly responsible for any and all progress over the course of the game. The best way to do this in a game where the user has a real-time gameplay responsibility (i.e. most modern 3D console games) is to link any and all long-game progress to success achieved during short-term core gameplay. This makes the user feel rewarded for that success and encourages the user to keep playing the game. This idea has been proven to work time and time again regardless of video game genre and as I've been over before there are countless examples throughout the history of video games, including team sports games.

Why should Madden NFL be any different? It's a video game. If I play Madden well, I want to be rewarded for it. I want the actions I perform on the field short-term to matter long-term, so that my games have context and matter. While it's fair to call the balance of the system into question, the current gameplay design of the XP progression system accomplishes exactly that.

[goravens2052]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Hey bucky60, do you think that an XP progression system can be implemented to function in a realistic way or that there would have to be two separate systems, one XP and the other realistic?

I ask because, like I mentioned in another post that no one seemed to understand and/or care for, I think it's possible to maybe have a realistic or at least real world logical, XP progression system.

Well Madden did exist without XP progression for majority of it's life span. Even when Pokemon was huge in the 90's and heavily relied upon XP, EA never implemented it. Yet years later they implement it, when it doesn't even work for a football game. XP doesn't work in sports games, yes RPG games but Madden is not a RPG game, it's a sports game that for some reason has a RPG feature in it.

Plus we did have potential before they did like they always do, remove it instead of improving upon it. So I imagine folks who don't like XP will soon be happy once EA comes up with another progression system to replace it.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

@CMHooe, my general issue with the "it's a video game" premise as a defense to a lack of realism, is that it being a video game is a given. Nobody has ever disputed or been confused as to if Madden is a video game or not, the question has been is it intended to be an arcade video game, simulation video game or some hybrid video game of the two. Well those working on the game have made it very clear that their intention is for Madden to be a simulation video game, ergo having it provide an enjoyable interactive experience one would want to find in a video game, in as realistic a manner as possible and applicable.

To that point, the XP system currently does not follow in that vein, meaning offering the User a progression system they can enjoy directly interacting with AND doing so in a reasonably realistic manner. It's fine that doesn't concern or bother you personally but it clearly doesn't logically coincide with the goal of creating a simulation video game. Simulation and video game are not at odds with each other, they coexist to create a distinct genre.

If Tiburon would embrace that fact to create an XP progression system that utilizes real world logic and parameters for collection and allocation, then that would be a reasonable offering in a simulation video game.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

Well Madden did exist without XP progression for majority of it's life span. Even when Pokemon was huge in the 90's and heavily relied upon XP, EA never implemented it. Yet years later they implement it, when it doesn't even work for a football game. XP doesn't work in sports games, yes RPG games but Madden is not a RPG game, it's a sports game that for some reason has a RPG feature in it.

Plus we did have potential before they did like they always do, remove it instead of improving upon it. So I imagine folks who don't like XP will soon be happy once EA comes up with another progression system to replace it.

That's a good point about Madden and even other sports sims not having XP before but still accomplishing progression. However, I don't agree that XP can't work in a sports game, I just think the way it's currently done in CFM, it won't.

To keep it simple, picture the XP acquisition and allocation as being "under the hood", unseen, when choosing to use the coaching staff, player time, playcalling, etc progression UI, like in old Maddens. The XP system would just be a different way of having the AI calculate progression, while giving the User the option of having more but not complete like currently, control over the allocation.

[goravens2052]

Re: Was/has there been any franchise info released?

A primary mark of a good video game - regardless of genre - is that it engages the user and makes the user feel directly responsible for any and all progress over the course of the game. The best way to do this in a game where the user has a real-time gameplay responsibility (i.e. most modern 3D console games) is to link any and all long-game progress to success achieved during short-term core gameplay. This makes the user feel rewarded for that success and encourages the user to keep playing the game. This idea has been proven to work time and time again regardless of video game genre and as I've been over before there are countless examples throughout the history of video games, including team sports games.

I did agree with some of the points in this post but I wanted to specifically talk about the bold. If we can get back on topic of franchise/CCM here, wouldn't you agree that for Madden, NCAA, MLB, etc where you have to build a team through draft, free agency, trades that the feeling of being rewarded is through franchise mode. Long game progress meaning the years it takes, no matter how many drafts it takes to rebuild a team, that reward is finally winning the Super Bowl. You finally win the World Series, you win the NBA Championship, the National Championship, that's the longevity and the award for playing franchise.

Yet it seems EA is content with CCM being 16 Play Now games that in the end, it really doesn't give you that feeling of winning the Super Bowl. Why not do everything to ensure the one mode that gives people longevity and reward actually does that. It's just strange to me that the one mode where you can get that reward and gives the game longevity is neglected.