Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

[RACZILLA]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

Thats a heck of an assumption. Again OSers always argue that EA is all about the money and that EA doesnt waste an opportunity to generate revenue. If thats the case and the market was really there, EA would release the game on PC. The market is there internationally and they release FIFA on PC every year.

The safer assumption is that EA's looked in to this and doesnt think the market is there. That assumption is supported by the comments EA has stated over the past few years about Madden on PC.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I think part of the reason why the PC sports game market may be lagging in NA has to do more with these titles being very similar to what's released on consoles.

The value proposition for PC gamers is a bit different than it is for console players, though that's starting to shift some. On PC you are seeing more F2P games where the barrier to entry to play is lower, there are constantly great sales in places like Steam, and some great indie games that have typically been exclusive to PC but are now making their way to consoles also.

A sports game designed specifically for the PC audience with a lower barrier to entry might draw in a lot more people if it's in line with what they are paying to access other games. Then it's about scaling the experience based on what interests the players, which is tough to do with a fixed price point.

All that being said, it's not trivial to do something like this. So when I hear comments along the lines of not just wanting to port console titles, it's my hope that it's because companies are considering doing something like this.

[wordtobigbird]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

The obvious answer is that they don't think it's worth it.

There is no other answer. Don't forget that this is all still a business and a business still has one goal. I'd like to rag on EA and say they are scared to let people mod their game but I think they'd let you mod the ish out of Madden if they thought they were going to make millions off of it.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

Of course this is just my opinion, but I think part of the reason why the PC sports game market may be lagging in NA has to do more with these titles being very similar to what's released on consoles.

The value proposition for PC gamers is a bit different than it is for console players, though that's starting to shift some. On PC you are seeing more F2P games where the barrier to entry to play is lower, there are constantly great sales in places like Steam, and some great indie games that have typically been exclusive to PC but are now making their way to consoles also.

A sports game designed specifically for the PC audience with a lower barrier to entry might draw in a lot more people if it's in line with what they are paying to access other games. Then it's about scaling the experience based on what interests the players, which is tough to do with a fixed price point.

All that being said, it's not trivial to do something like this. So when I hear comments along the lines of not just wanting to port console titles, it's my hope that it's because companies are considering doing something like this.

Great post. I just dont know if EA has the incentive to do it. Are there any F2P sports games? If so, how are they structured?

[Flamehead]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

Thats a heck of an assumption. Again OSers always argue that EA is all about the money and that EA doesnt waste an opportunity to generate revenue. If thats the case and the market was really there, EA would release the game on PC. The market is there internationally and they release FIFA on PC every year.

The safer assumption is that EA's looked in to this and doesnt think the market is there. That assumption is supported by the comments EA has stated over the past few years about Madden on PC.

See, I don't think that's a heck of an assumption at all and in fact, is reasonable. After all, there was market enough back during the PS2/xbox days. Now, if one were to argue they believe the market isn't there anymore, they certainly cannot base that with any validity on comparing it's numbers during the years of the PS3/xbox360, as the PC version was a different animal and not on equal footing as it were.

And if EA WAS doing that, then a) that's really foolish, or b) they have other reasons for not wanting to bring it to PC and used the PC sales numbers as an excuse (particularly later), when (again) the titles weren't comparable to begin with.

At this point, both positions are going 'round in circles so I'll bow out. If I were a bettin' man though, I'd say EA figured that even though PC might have had a market (again, we'll never know because once last gen kicked in, the playing field was uneven), they figured they'd simply concentrate on the consoles as a) it's one less environment to worry about, and b) they save themselves the headache of being "shown up" by the modders, particularly when they say they don't have time, resources, etc.

I also wonder if somewhere there was some tacit agreement with the console manufactures that they'd only concentrate on those platforms in order move more of those units (what EA would get out of the deal other than what's mentioned above, I don't know).

And I'm sure the loathsome Peter Moore factors into the equation somewhere too.

[bucky60]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

Show me a PC sports game that is selling even a quarter of what its console brethren are in the US. The NBA 2k series (until next gen started in Nov.) is the same version on PC and on last gen consoles (except for custom soundtracks).

I'm one of those that bought NBA2K on PC and through steam, so I guess my sale just didn't show up in your numbers. I don't know what the ACTUAL sales numbers are for NBA2K on the PC, but I do know it's substantially less than on the consoles and you point is a good one. I guess we are discussing if PC sales would be enough for EA to make a profit, not compare how much profit with consoles.

They are a business, and for whatever there reasons are, a significant part of it must be financial.

[RACZILLA]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

Great post. I just dont know if EA has the incentive to do it. Are there any F2P sports games? If so, how are they structured?

There are definitely games out there, but maybe not a ton with major licenses. 2K for example has a basketball product in China.

I think I agree with the notion that sports games are not huge on PC in the U.S. But for me that leads to more questions. Why? There are definitely a ton of sports fans here, many of whom play games and also likely play games on PC.

I don't have the answer for that but my suspicion is it's more of a matter of the right product as opposed to a limited audience. You may even be able to capture some lapsed sports gamers if the barrier is low enough.

Whether it's football, basketball, etc. I'd just love to see someone start with a basic core game and develop through a strong partnership with their players, who could help determine which features are the most compelling and viable.

It's cool to dream big but start small. I think it's a matter of time before we see someone give it a go.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

There are definitely games out there, but maybe not a ton with major licenses. 2K for example has a basketball product in China.

I think I agree with the notion that sports games are not huge on PC in the U.S. But for me that leads to more questions. Why? There are definitely a ton of sports fans here, many of whom play games and also likely play games on PC.

I don't have the answer for that but my suspicion is it's more of a matter of the right product as opposed to a limited audience. You may even be able to capture some lapsed sports gamers if the barrier is low enough.

Whether it's football, basketball, etc. I'd just love to see someone start with a basic core game and develop through a strong partnership with their players, who could help determine which features are the most compelling and viable.

It's cool to dream big but start small. I think it's a matter of time before we see someone give it a go.

I think cost plays a role too. Take me for an example. I love NBA basketball and the NBA 2k series. I'm also a guy that preferred playing Live on the PC because of the mods. Why dont I buy it on pc?

One, I dont have a CPU that can run the game at the optimum speed and I dont want to buy a new CPU just for that game. Two, I hated having to upgrade video cards everytime the games graphics improved. Three, 2k patches the PC version much slower than the console versions.

[jWILL253]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

It has very little to do with sales, or at least I don't think it's the sole reason. FIFA & NBA 2K are worldwide sellers, sure, but they are also WAY bigger targets for piracy for that very reason. Not every country has a DMCA-style law to prevent piracy (not that the DMCA means jack **** to pirates anyway. An unenforceable law that only hurts legit consumers), and not every country allows for full EULA enforceability like the US does. Hell, Idk if the EU allows for EULA's that supplant consumer law. It is also important to note that NBA Live hasn't had a PC version since Live 07, which would fly against the argument for a particular sport's worldwide presence and influence.

The bottom line: EA is a very petty company, in every way. For me, it breaks down into a few simple reasons:

1. Modding. There is a HUGE Madden 08 PC community that not only has added the cosmetic stuff like updated uniforms, rosters, & equipment... but they also add new animations to the game, like laterals and extra juke moves. They even found a way to add practice squads & IR placements freeing up roster spots. If EA was petty enough to destroy the football market when they knew & acknowledged (in court, no less) that their product couldn't hang with the competition, then they are petty enough to avoid PC due to their inept devs at Tiburon being shown up by people with less time & less resources, but plenty of passion. But even simple things like removing DRM (because DRM only hurts paying customers; Pirates are always ahead of the curve). EA knows that PC gamers know their way around.
   
   
2. Pricing. What a console gamer will pay for a game is drastically different from what PC gamers are willing to pay for the same game, especially one with dubious quality like Madden. With the advent of Steam, the perception of the price to value ratio has changed PC gaming dramatically. And with that said, I question as to whether or not PC gamers would be willing to pay $60 for Madden as an Origin exclusive. FIFA is a different thing because of its worldwide appeal, but even then, there is a gulf of quality that exists between FIFA & Madden, depending on your perspective. Even at $60 + Origin, FIFA gets away with it because it's a better product.
   
   
3. Lack of monetization options. This correlates to the first bullet very well. There are games on PC that have save editors & executable hacks that can add anything to a game. For instance, the "credits" currency in Mass Effect 3. I can download a save editor for ME3 right now that not only changes in-game content, but also allows me to add or remove in-game currency (I could also download Cheat Engine & look for parameters that control certain in-game elements, then change those elements in real-time, but it's a lot harder to do that). Or in terms of cosmetic items, currency, & DLC sold via microtransactions (like the EA Football Club stuff in FIFA). If any of that is already locked within the game's code (like a certain Capcom game), I can just look in the packaged files, or wait for someone to hack those files and finds a way to unlock those items for in-game use. Or, if those elements have to be downloaded, I can just wait for someone to upload a torrent that contains all the DLC & microtransactions, or wait to purchase a game until there is a Game of the Year edition of a game, or a Steam sale of a game + DLC marked at 70% off. All of the above mean that EA really has no feasible way to monetize PC games because the workarounds for that are so relatively easy to implement/carry out, that piracy methods are seen as a drastic last result that most PC gamers would like to avoid just out of respect for the developer.

I just want to point out that just because the above methods exist for PC gamers to use, doesn't mean that all PC gamers use them, or that PC gamers are pirates. It's just to illustrate that PC gamers have numerous ways to avoid any inconveniences that EA would throw at them. And EA knows that. EA (and most other publishers) know that any kind of business models & strategies that work on console would be ruined by the PC crowd. That's why consoles have such a large focus from publishers in the first place: more control over both the marketplace and its consumers, as well as piracy being way less of an issue.

In fact, I would go as far as saying that EA only deals with PC gaming because they have to; for certain genres, it's too big to ignore, especially on the online gaming front. That said, it seems like they avoid it with their most precious cash cows like most America-focused EA Sports titles...

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

@jWILL253, I enjoyed the post but the main question I ask is, why aren't those things a concern for EA with regard to FIFA? I would agree with the opinion of EA being petty in relation to certain things but is it to the extent where they are flexing their muscle or peacocking just with Madden/EA Football?

I don't play many other EA Sports titles enough to really know but isn't Madden one of the most User restrictive of its' titles, in relation customization? Are sliders broken or wonky in other EA sports titles and many options gamers are accustomed to, not available like in Madden?

I ask all this trying to discuss if there could be any merit to EA simply wanting a tighter leash on football, for whatever reason.

[jWILL253]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

@jWILL253, I enjoyed the post but the main question I ask is, why aren't those things a concern for EA with regard to FIFA? I would agree with the opinion of EA being petty in relation to certain things but is it to the extent where they are flexing their muscle or peacocking just with Madden/EA Football?

...I ask all this trying to discuss if there could be any merit to EA simply wanting a tighter leash on football, for whatever reason.

The bolded is pretty much the answer. EA wants no threats to its cash cow.

FIFA is popular enough to recoup any losses it might have on the PC front, and has enough quality to avoid any real threat from competition. But, as popular as it is, Madden is THE cash cow for EA; they can spend less in R&D compared to FIFA, and make back enough money to recoup the license costs and then some. But, Madden is also the most volatile and vulnerable. EA knows it has the hardcore NFL crowd because there's no other option for the hardcore NFL crowd, but as soon as their is an option, a large portion of the hardcore are gonna flock over just out of curiosity for something new. They even acknowledge as much in Percover v. Electronic Arts, Inc. They also know that Madden doesn't have enough quality and value to stand on its own merits as a $60 game outside of the console market. If any of the PS360 versions of Madden were ported to PC, they'd be pirated to hell and back because PC gamers won't pay $60 bucks for that kind of quality (or lack thereof).

[mrbstro]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

I am all for a PC version, actually i still play Madden 08 from time to time for the hell of it. I have a few assumptions that i didn't see when i glanced over a few parts of this thread. TL;DR, but from what i saw they weren't mentioned.

1. EA has tried. The transfer from madden from the Sixth Gens to the Seventh Gens was too much work to re-port to the PC. I feel this is right because Madden 06, 07, and 08 all had Sixth Gen graphic when Seventh Gen graphics were available. Why else wouldn't EA Have Seventh Gen graphics on the last 3 versions available? EA got lazy, didn't want to put in the effort going into the new generation, and gave up. They realized the sales weren't substantial enough to continue on a platform that at least half of the could-be sales were going to be obtained for free.
   
   Coming into the Eight Gen, they stayed with the lazy tradition of doing right for their own little micro-economy.
   <br>
2. Controls. Another big deal is controls. I really do believe that being good on madden PC is impossible without a controller. If your going to buy a game just to play it with a controller then why not just buy it for a console?

[AmericasTeam]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

Madden is anything but EA's cash cow. That's reserved for FIFA and Battlefield. It makes me giggle a little with all the talk of EA not producing a madden pc game because they're afraid the modding community will show them up.

If there was enough money to be made, EA would be all over it. Just because one company produces on said platform, doesn't mean another deems it profitable enough to mess with.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[jWILL253]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

Madden is anything but EA's cash cow. That's reserved for FIFA and Battlefield. It makes me giggle a little with all the talk of EA not producing a madden pc game because they're afraid the modding community will show them up.

If there was enough money to be made, EA would be all over it. Just because one company produces on said platform, doesn't mean another deems it profitable enough to mess with.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Then why go through multiple bouts of litigation just to settle out of court anyways, if EA didn't think Madden was its flagship? Why even have the exclusive deal in the first place?

Also, you're forgetting a huge part of why the industry behaves the way it does: pride. EA doesn't want to get shown up by anybody, whether it be modders, 2K, or Activision. Hell, if EA could sign an exclusive deal for first-person shooters that could only be played on consoles, it would.

It's the same reason why Square Enix decided to announce the long-requested localization of a 3 year old Japan-only PSP game, Final Fantasy Type-0 (for next-gen consoles), during E3 after only 2 days of the fan translation patch for the game being completed and released: No publisher wants to deal with the bad PR of being inept at making games & making good business decisions, especially at the hands of people who don't get paid to do so.

[AmericasTeam]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

Then why go through multiple bouts of litigation just to settle out of court anyways, if EA didn't think Madden was its flagship? Why even have the exclusive deal in the first place?

Also, you're forgetting a huge part of why the industry behaves the way it does: pride. EA doesn't want to get shown up by anybody, whether it be modders, 2K, or Activision. Hell, if EA could sign an exclusive deal for first-person shooters that could only be played on consoles, it would.

EA had to front the money to keep the business. Madden may not generate the highest revenue, but would have been a significant loss in revenue had they not been granted the rights to the exclusive deal. At the time, it probably saved Madden. 2K was positioned to give EA a good thumping. Madden could have very easily turned out to be like NBA Live.

Agree to some degree about pride, but that hasn't stopped EA from producing other franchises it deems profitable on pc, nor has it stopped them from producing the most lacking and mediocre sports franchise for the last 10 years on any platform. If EA was driven more by pride, resources would have been allocated toward obviously lacking areas of the game instead of gimmicks to create more sales or revenue after the initial purchase.

Money > Pride

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Nza]

Re: Why Is Madden Still Not Available On PC At This Point?

... I guess we are discussing if PC sales would be enough for EA to make a profit, not compare how much profit with consoles.

Not really though. A company like EA isn't just looking for profits, it's looking for the best profits possible. Resources spent on a project with limited profits is, in their view, probably better spent on a project with better prospects.