When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

[Wolverines05]

Re: When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

so i got a question about the NT at 0 technique. What does it mean to "command a double team" exactly. Does the offensive line decide to double team the NT because he's so strong? Or is it the path of the NT that causes the double team? When they talk about guys like Mike Martin from Michigan a couple years ago, or rookie Ego Ferguson for the Bears (from LSU) they always mentioned how these guys commanded double teams. What is the nose tackles job though, and how is different than a 3 technique? I was thinking that if the NT is so strong, why not line him up 3 tech and cause havoc going 1 gap as opposed to 2.

So my main questions are:
1. what is the reason behind having to double the NT
2. Why double the NT vs. the DT
3. Are the assignments much different between 3 tech and 0 tech?

[Primo80]

Re: When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

so i got a question about the NT at 0 technique. What does it mean to "command a double team" exactly. Does the offensive line decide to double team the NT because he's so strong? Or is it the path of the NT that causes the double team? When they talk about guys like Mike Martin from Michigan a couple years ago, or rookie Ego Ferguson for the Bears (from LSU) they always mentioned how these guys commanded double teams. What is the nose tackles job though, and how is different than a 3 technique? I was thinking that if the NT is so strong, why not line him up 3 tech and cause havoc going 1 gap as opposed to 2.

So my main questions are:
1. what is the reason behind having to double the NT
2. Why double the NT vs. the DT
3. Are the assignments much different between 3 tech and 0 tech?

Im not an authority on this - I was a TE - but I am a pats fan...

The pats like Wilfork because he can control double team blocks and basically set the line of scrimmage. Hes an immovable object. They drafted DEasley cuz he basically did that at Florida. I watched some game film on him and he was blowing up offensive lines and "Commanding" offenses to double team him.

I remember an interview with Wilfork an the interviewer asked why their last opponent had left him unblocked as the 'read' defender. He chuckled and whatever his answer was, was to the effect that he proved it to be silly.

All I know is some guys are NTs because they can still thrive and have an impact against 2 blockers.

EDIT: This thread rules BTW.

[Wolverines05]

Re: When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

Im not an authority on this - I was a TE - but I am a pats fan...

The pats like Wilfork because he can control double team blocks and basically set the line of scrimmage. Hes an immovable object. They drafted DEasley cuz he basically did that at Florida. I watched some game film on him and he was blowing up offensive lines and "Commanding" offenses to double team him.

I remember an interview with Wilfork an the interviewer asked why their last opponent had left him unblocked as the 'read' defender. He chuckled and whatever his answer was, was to the effect that he proved it to be silly.

All I know is some guys are NTs because they can still thrive and have an impact against 2 blockers.

EDIT: This thread rules BTW.

so i get that what commanding means, and how, in this case, wilfork's size means he needs to be doubled. but does wilfork himself do something differently than the defensive tackle, that then requires the double team on wilfork? like aside from simply being bigger and stronger? and if the nose is such a threat, why not line him up in 3 technique where he can 1 gap and get a 1 on 1 matchup.

also, i get that the nose lining up 0 in 3-4 will usually 2 gap. but lets say, the ball is snapped, and he fills playside A gap based on a read, (not sure what lineman hes reading exactly..) does he then hit that playside A gap the same way a 1 gap player would attack a gap. Or do 1 gap players actually do something different technique wise from a 2 gap besides the initial read once the ball is snapped.

i may need to explain what i want to ask better.. hah

[LBzrule]

Re: When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

so i got a question about the NT at 0 technique. What does it mean to "command a double team" exactly. Does the offensive line decide to double team the NT because he's so strong? Or is it the path of the NT that causes the double team? When they talk about guys like Mike Martin from Michigan a couple years ago, or rookie Ego Ferguson for the Bears (from LSU) they always mentioned how these guys commanded double teams. What is the nose tackles job though, and how is different than a 3 technique? I was thinking that if the NT is so strong, why not line him up 3 tech and cause havoc going 1 gap as opposed to 2.

So my main questions are:
1. what is the reason behind having to double the NT
2. Why double the NT vs. the DT
3. Are the assignments much different between 3 tech and 0 tech?

Wolverine, I think the language of "command a double team" must be understood in relationship to Man vs Zone Blocking and also understand that only in the former case is it a literal double team. In the latter case it is a combo and peel. And it is perhaps the reason why more teams are running zone blocking now than every before. Back when Alex Gibbs installed Zone Blocking for the Broncos when they had TD, his only principle was to always stay positive and to do that meant to eliminate penetration by the defensive line. That's where we get the combo and peel. So something might start off looking like a double team but one of the blockers more than likely will peel off to another threat. But if there is no other threat they they might just assist one another and drive the guy out of there to "win the zone" space.

So with zone blocking in mind, how might one understand, "command a double team"? When the defense lines players up in specific gaps that player MIGHT be the initial target that gets combo'ed so that he does not penetrate and make the offense go negative. Let me also add, if there is a double team or even a combo/peel, it's almost always going to be at the point of attack (this will be qualified below however LOL).

So a couple of things to take already:
1) Type of Running game man vs zone
2) Defensive Alignment
3) Point of Attack

Here is a good article on it and I've also included a video

http://static.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/davie/1440703.html

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/LvtJHq_0YvA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Let's take a diagram from Jets vs Texans



Whoever worked this did a good job drawing it up. You see where the combo/peel will be? C/LG combo/peel on NT with Center peeling to 2nd level to cut off backside ILB.

Now I will say this, every team has some rules that are wrinkles from the original thing. Take this next diagram.



Above I said that the combo/double will almost always occur at the point of attack. In this diagram what you have is the POF uncovered (LG Osemele). So RG Yanda and RT Oher combo the backside.

Anyways, I'm not sure this answers everything but it's a basic start. Football is not a game for dummies. This is a game that requires intelligence. These guys have to make reads and do things based on that. I can't stand QB's getting all of the glory for intelligence LOL

Edit: Let me add. Going back to your last post talking about Wilfork. His size means nothing if my lineman can block him one on one and keep him from penetrating in a zone scheme. He's not going to automatically get double teamed every play just because of his size, not in a zone scheme. It's going to depend on those things said earlier. Where is he lined up? Where is our point of attack?


Now notice I did not talk about man blocking here.

[LBzrule]

Re: When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

Also about the gap thing. Some teams run mixed gap defense. Basically what this is is everyone in the front is responsible for 1 gap except for 1 person and that person is primarily the NT. When you hear people say hybrid defense, this IMO can be the only thing they are talking about. The Ravens actually do this. While they have 3-4 personnel their actual base defense is 4-3 Under with everyone responsible for one gap except the 1 Tech. They have struggled somewhat because they haven't found a great guy to solidify that 1 Tech spot.

Here is a diagram, credit to Ravens All-22



Ngata played at the NT position last season. He's able to play it but he's best suited for one gap 3 tech because he can more than likely win that match up. In this diagram you see Cody there. He's big, he's slow and he hasn't been that good which is one of the reasons why the run defense has struggled a bit. Brandon Williams is the starter now so I'll be interested to see how he shapes up. The person who plays this 1 tech position has to be a 2 gap player, at least for the Ravens anyway. I think Brandon Williams will be that solid presence we've been missing at the position.

Anyways, when I say hybrid this is what I would mean. Your standard 1 gap defense with one player, namely the 1 tech DT responsible for 2 gaps.

[Wolverines05]

Re: When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

Also about the gap thing. Some teams run mixed gap defense. Basically what this is is everyone in the front is responsible for 1 gap except for 1 person and that person is primarily the NT. When you hear people say hybrid defense, this IMO can be the only thing they are talking about. The Ravens actually do this. While they have 3-4 personnel their actual base defense is 4-3 Under with everyone responsible for one gap except the 1 Tech. They have struggled somewhat because they haven't found a great guy to solidify that 1 Tech spot.

Here is a diagram, credit to Ravens All-22



Ngata played at the NT position last season. He's able to play it but he's best suited for one gap 3 tech because he can more than likely win that match up. In this diagram you see Cody there. He's big, he's slow and he hasn't been that good which is one of the reasons why the run defense has struggled a bit. Brandon Williams is the starter now so I'll be interested to see how he shapes up. The person who plays this 1 tech position has to be a 2 gap player, at least for the Ravens anyway. I think Brandon Williams will be that solid presence we've been missing at the position.

Anyways, when I say hybrid this is what I would mean. Your standard 1 gap defense with one player, namely the 1 tech DT responsible for 2 gaps.

Wouldnt it be beneficial for the 1 tech DT responsible for 2 gaps to line up in 0 tech so he can flow to strongside/weakside with equal effectiveness? it seems that lining up 1 tech would really hinder his ability to move to 2 gaps instead of simply penetrating in between the center/guard. by lining up 1 tech, he'd have to go around the center's inside shoulder to get to that weakside A gap. wheareas in 0, that distance is much shorter to reach that weak A gap.

[LBzrule]

Re: When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

Wouldnt it be beneficial for the 1 tech DT responsible for 2 gaps to line up in 0 tech so he can flow to strongside/weakside with equal effectiveness? it seems that lining up 1 tech would really hinder his ability to move to 2 gaps instead of simply penetrating in between the center/guard. by lining up 1 tech, he'd have to go around the center's inside shoulder to get to that weakside A gap. wheareas in 0, that distance is much shorter to reach that weak A gap.

NO, he's actually reading the center and lining him up as a 1 technique actually gives him an angle and allows him to get a better read (theoretically anyways). Not only that, 1 gap players attack gaps. 2 gap players attack a man. So the 1 tech in this alignment is going to attack the Center a great deal of the time. Theoretically, the Center is going to tell us what is going on. Let's take the same diagram:



Everyone here has 1 gap except Cody. He's responsible for both A gaps. What this means is one of the linebackers either Smith or McClain, but this year Mosely or Brown is the hit man - free man to make the tackle on the HB. Now let me show you another diagram from the same site that shows the gap assignments then you can begin to put this picture together.




Now let's take weak and strong side run. Based on these two diagrams and you can begin to see what's shaping up here. Weak side run, Cody cannot allow the Center to reach and pick up the Will ILB. If he does our run defense is in trouble. That's why he has the weak side and strong side A gap. It's really his read on the Center. He's attack the Center more so than the A gap. Again, he cannot allow the Center to reach the WILB on the weak side run. On the strong side run he's already in the gap. Again, what is the Center trying to do is what his primary question has to be.

If it is a stretch play weak side he cannot get reached by the back side guard and he's gotta stand right there in that Weak A gap to prevent the cut back. This is probably one of the more intelligent players in a scheme like this. He's gotta know his stuff and then be damn good at execution. One wrong read, bad execution and our linebackers are compromised. When you look at ILB's that have great statistics, look beyond them to this guy. HE's the one doing all the reading and the dirty work to help them have a great season.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

@LBZ 2Gap NT's are more occupants of the center / A gap cloggers than they are "penetrators"?

Is it plausible to see them attack the Center in Madden and simply occupy space, as some put it, in that strong and weak-side gap?

I find in Madden it is so wasy for D-linemen to get turned aside at the snap and nuetralized out of effectively playing a gap - they merely get sealed lkke they are all just occupying space -- this is the area that irks me.

I appreciate that knowledge you dropped re the 2Gap NT role - how should this technique translate in Madden? Should he simply stand up and lean into the C w his head in the backfield watching the flow?

I love running 3-4 schemes but it irks me how I can call a 3-4 predator or solid that places 3 heavy, wide set DT's dead center in the interior of the trench and they are called to crash middle yet at snap of the ball there is huge running success right up the gut!

To the above: what is the fallout here? I have a NT directly over C (odd alignment) and the two DTs right beside him over the G's but tight to the NT in a pinched alignment.

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[Wolverines05]

Re: When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

@LBZ 2Gap NT's are more occupants of the center / A gap cloggers than they are "penetrators"?

Is it plausible to see them attack the Center in Madden and simply occupy space, as some put it, in that strong and weak-side gap?

I find in Madden it is so wasy for D-linemen to get turned aside at the snap and nuetralized out of effectively playing a gap - they merely get sealed lkke they are all just occupying space -- this is the area that irks me.

I appreciate that knowledge you dropped re the 2Gap NT role - how should this technique translate in Madden? Should he simply stand up and lean into the C w his head in the backfield watching the flow?

I love running 3-4 schemes but it irks me how I can call a 3-4 predator or solid that places 3 heavy, wide set DT's dead center in the interior of the trench and they are called to crash middle yet at snap of the ball there is huge running success right up the gut!

To the above: what is the fallout here? I have a NT directly over C (odd alignment) and the two DTs right beside him over the G's but tight to the NT in a pinched alignment.

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk

great question! we should begin calling you professor LBz..

[Primo80]

Re: When will madden ever introduce gap assignments in the game?

Thanks for the insight LBZ, awesome stuff.

This is the fine detail I want to mess around with in the game. Itd be so cool if you could set the logic for your defensive players in different schemes. Tell them which gaps to cover, how to play formations differently that others, or set behaviors you never want to see them exhibit. I hope they can turn this game into a sandbox down the road.