Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

[vision]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

Yeah, maybe it's just because I have no problems with the game other than a few gameplay issues, so things dont bother me too much. THAT being said, maybe I think the tiny minutia is ridiculous because they should make sure they have solid gameplay down first, which as everyone knows they dont. idk. That's why The Show is so good at authenticity. Their gameplay is so rock solid, they can do the little things. Madden has A LONG WAY to go before their gameplay is rock solid. They shouldn't be focusing on the little things.

True that. Game play is more important. But I think that is a given. Anyway.. see your point.

[jpdavis82]

Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

Yeah, maybe it's just because I have no problems with the game other than a few gameplay issues, so things dont bother me too much. THAT being said, maybe I think the tiny minutia is ridiculous because they should make sure they have solid gameplay down first, which as everyone knows they dont. idk. That's why The Show is so good at authenticity. Their gameplay is so rock solid, they can do the little things. Madden has A LONG WAY to go before their gameplay is rock solid. They shouldn't be focusing on the little things.

How's this, a list of things Madden needs to completely overhaul.

Presentation
gameplay
RATINGS!!!!!!!

They just hired the senior cinematographer for NFL FILMS as presentation director and after one cycle you're ready to overhaul presentation? This is the reason this franchise has suffered for years, lack of improvement upon the foundation. If we do what you're suggesting it will take 3-5 more years for this game to get where we want it. I do agree about ratings but you can't overhaul presentation and gameplay year after year and expect to get somewhere. ALL good sports games like FIFA, NHL, The Show, have had years of building upon themselves. Madden has never done that until now. This idea that you can just overhaul everything and the game we want will be there next year is a complete fantasy.

[DNMHIII]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

Yeah, maybe it's just because I have no problems with the game other than a few gameplay issues, so things dont bother me too much. THAT being said, maybe I think the tiny minutia is ridiculous because they should make sure they have solid gameplay down first, which as everyone knows they dont. idk. That's why The Show is so good at authenticity. Their gameplay is so rock solid, they can do the little things. Madden has A LONG WAY to go before their gameplay is rock solid. They shouldn't be focusing on the little things.

How's this, a list of things Madden needs to completely overhaul.

Presentation
gameplay
RATINGS!!!!!!!

I think the problem a lot of people have though with the little things being wrong year after year is that most of it is caught almost immediately be people that don't get paid to make sure the little things get done right and that's frustrating especially when it goes on for years and years.

The little things could also be compared to putting square wheels on a car, you just wouldn't do it, but EA gets away with and somehow justifies it to themselves it appears continually IMO.

[HealyMonster]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

I think the problem a lot of people have though with the little things being wrong year after year is that most of it is caught almost immediately be people that don't get paid to make sure the little things get done right and that's frustrating especially when it goes on for years and years.

The little things could also be compared to putting square wheels on a car, you just wouldn't do it, but EA gets away with and somehow justifies it to themselves it appears continually IMO.

its also like, this is their first year, yes, but for instance the replays, they are implemented wrong. Like instead of doing it right, they throw them in and are like "we will improve them." Ive never seen a company implement stuff half way, and always need to improve everything because it isn't done right the first time.

Then theres the stat overlays. They disappear too quick. Its been that way for years when they do have stat overlays. JP tweets them and they say something like in final build it'll be better, but its not getting better. Whats the point of having stat overlays if you can't read them? They put it there just to be there, and not because they wanted good stat overlays.

Halftime show. Replays are bad/wrong. it was implemented this year, they did it wrong. its not like they took last years halftime show and used their replays with a new format. the built the halftime show from scratch, and this was what they came up with. for them to take the stand like "this is year one" is nonsensical.

[PacMan3000]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

its also like, this is their first year, yes, but for instance the replays, they are implemented wrong. Like instead of doing it right, they throw them in and are like "we will improve them." Ive never seen a company implement stuff half way, and always need to improve everything because it isn't done right the first time.

Hit the nail on the head.

Here's the thing: Far too often, the people behind Madden go about implementing new things in a half-measured way. This causes problems, because instead of doing it to the best of your ability the first time, it's something that's only done halfway and needs additional attention the next year--when they can be using that time to work on something else within that area of the game.

I do think it's understandable that AI logic or other gameplay related issues might take a couple years. But do replays take a couple years to get right? Does the halftime show? How about a playcalling screen that doesn't block the game's presentation?

It's kind of like missing on high draft picks in the NFL. When you hit on them, you can focus your energy on other aspects of your team, and you can get better, much faster, across the board. But when you're missing--or at best just finding average talent, you have to keep wasting time and resources to improve at a position that, if done right the first time, would already be a strength.

I think there's a ton to like in Madden 15--but I think things like replays, halftime, play call screens--these should already be your strength and not a single additional ounce of energy should be spent on them--because they would've already been done right.

[TTD71]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

... ALL good sports games like FIFA, NHL, The Show, have had years of building upon themselves. Madden has never done that until now. This idea that you can just overhaul everything and the game we want will be there next year is a complete fantasy.

FIFA, NHL and The Show had solid foundations and then began steadily improving them...in fact each of those titles had a serious problem with a previous foundation, overhauled themself completely and THEN made consistent and steady improvements to become the gold standards for their respective sports in videogame representations. FIFA was getting pounded by PES for a long time actually...NHL was actually considered worse than NHL2K for a good stretch (though NHL2K was also widely panned)...The Show was well behind MVP baseball for a long time as well.

FIFA still has PES to compete with every year...
NHL and The Show have been largely competition free...
So, its not ONLY competition that drives studios to better games (though in no way does competition ever HURT game progression)...

Until Madden breaks down and sheds all of their legacy issues, they can't get into the conversation with the other good sport simulations.

Of course, I find it quite amusing that I picked up NBA2K14 for my PS4 and was totally blown away by it while fans of the series on last gen systems tell me this version totally sucks and that 2K needs to "get back to basics and fundamentals"...it sounds so much like the conversations between Madden vets that it made me laugh to myself...the more things change for some, the more they stay the same for others I guess!

[greenegt]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

The new zoom cam has really grown on me. I think I'll end up using that as my main camera for offense.

[NDAlum]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

Forgive me if this has been answered: will online CFM users get the new presentation features? Or any features at all?

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

FIFA, NHL and The Show had solid foundations and then began steadily improving them...in fact each of those titles had a serious problem with a previous foundation, overhauled themself completely and THEN made consistent and steady improvements to become the gold standards for their respective sports in videogame representations. FIFA was getting pounded by PES for a long time actually...NHL was actually considered worse than NHL2K for a good stretch (though NHL2K was also widely panned)...The Show was well behind MVP baseball for a long time as well.

FIFA still has PES to compete with every year...
NHL and The Show have been largely competition free...
So, its not ONLY competition that drives studios to better games (though in no way does competition ever HURT game progression)...

Until Madden breaks down and sheds all of their legacy issues, they can't get into the conversation with the other good sport simulations.

Of course, I find it quite amusing that I picked up NBA2K14 for my PS4 and was totally blown away by it while fans of the series on last gen systems tell me this version totally sucks and that 2K needs to "get back to basics and fundamentals"...it sounds so much like the conversations between Madden vets that it made me laugh to myself...the more things change for some, the more they stay the same for others I guess!

That's their focus right now, eliminating exploits and legacy issues. I think if they stay on this path they will be right with FIFA and NHL in the next year or two.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

That's their focus right now, eliminating exploits and legacy issues. I think if they stay on this path they will be right with FIFA and NHL in the next year or two.

Focusing on those things is fine, but the way things are implemented need to be done smarter. They often "fix" something by creating ANOTHER issue. Just build the game to play like real football instead of Madden and those issues will take care of themselves. Player movement absolutely needs to be addressed. If you notice the common thread with those other gold standard games, player movement has been a top priority with them. Watching the NHL and FIFA games blew me away. Madden looks silly and a bit embarrassing compared to those games. There is no reason why America's number one sport (by a mile) should be this far behind the 8 ball when it comes to player movement and realistic interactions. There are no technology limitations because excellent player movement and interactions was done in football on the original xbox and PS2. Less excuses and more results and the customer base will increase again. I'm hopeful for the future, but my expectations for Madden 15 are not all that high.

From a presentation standpoint I find it concerning that they really think what they've done here is great work. There is nothing "great" about this. It's bare and still looks like something invented by Tiburon rather than what I see on Sunday. The fact that they still can't grasp the concept of replicating a real TV broadcast tells me that this is still not going to progress and yet more time and iterations will be wasted. They need to understand that fans don't want them to "reinvent" presentation. JUST COPY WHAT IS ON REAL TV!

[A_Quiet_Pro]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

They just hired the senior cinematographer for NFL FILMS as presentation director and after one cycle you're ready to overhaul presentation? This is the reason this franchise has suffered for years, lack of improvement upon the foundation. If we do what you're suggesting it will take 3-5 more years for this game to get where we want it. I do agree about ratings but you can't overhaul presentation and gameplay year after year and expect to get somewhere. ALL good sports games like FIFA, NHL, The Show, have had years of building upon themselves. Madden has never done that until now. This idea that you can just overhaul everything and the game we want will be there next year is a complete fantasy.

NO NO, I'm talking about overhauling the presentation from what it was. This new guy here seems to be going in the right direction for one. And for 2, you're absolutely right about year after after changing things, (And the other titles building on themselves); THAT'S what Madden suffers from. Instead of finding something that works, and building on it, EA's method is "Let's put in gimmicky things each year and then rip them out down the road. (i.e. vision cone, fight for fumble, highlight stick, possession catch, etc) ALL ripped out within 1 to 2 years of implementation. There's NO consistency with these guys. That's why they suffer. I said before that not much bothered me, but now that it's coming out, I realize there's a lot that can be done (so thank you community for helping me there lol).

[A_Quiet_Pro]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

And about implementation, Ramone Russell (The Show's community mgr), even said regarding a new mode for them; we wanted to tweak it and get it right, get it to where we wanted it for the fans before we implement it into the game. THIS is the kind of mindset EA needs. Tweak it for 2 or 3 years behind the scenes and get it to a good playable WORKING mode and/or mechanic before it's implemented.

[A_Quiet_Pro]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

That's their focus right now, eliminating exploits and legacy issues. I think if they stay on this path they will be right with FIFA and NHL in the next year or two.

What I want to know is WHYYYYYY is there legacy issues to begin with??? I thought the whole reason behind creating the Ignite engine and how the teams can share info and data and work with the new generation of systems was supposed to FIX that.

[iLLWiLL]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

I'm working so I don't have time to respond in detail. To answer your question about Gerhart, aj said different players have different celebration styles and that was supposed to be more reserved, ala Barry Sanders.

I'm sorry, dude. I appreciate your pro-Madden enthusiasm and all.

But sometimes your inability to simply be objective is annoying. Toby Gerhart wouldn't just keep the ball and slowly jog back to the sideline following a TOUCHDOWN. Even more so, his teammates & lineman wouldn't just let him do that, even if Gerhart does have a more laidback personality, his teammates would still be swarming him and slapping him on the helmet and such. Same goes for the Eagles Jordan Matthews TD. A rookie catches a bomb TD over the middle, and he just turns back and jogs back to the sideline...with football in hand! I'm sure the refs are thinking, "Uhh, we're going to need that football, son." Again, all of J-Matt's teammates are just jogging back to the sideline, too! NO EMOTION! Don't try to defend that! Just take it, and accept that this & that shouldn't work this way, etc...

[Desolationmike]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Developer Livestream - Presentation and Graphics

There is no reason why America's number one sport (by a mile) should be this far behind the 8 ball when it comes to player movement and realistic interactions.

THIS! There's no reason Madden, which receives far more exposure and sales than NHL or FIFA(at least in America) should be behind those games! I understand that maybe this year is the first time their taking presentation seriously, but is it so unreasonable to ask WHY? You would assume the art team is seperate from gameplay so it's not like they need to split resources, beyond that they should be receiving more resources conidering Madden gets far more attention than other EA Sports properties. So why is it that NHL and FIFA are so much better in those departments? Do those teams understand their respective games better? I see no reason why Madden isn't the standard for EA with everything else trying to be on par with it.

That being said I'm excited for Madden this year and plan on doing an in depth CFM with my cousin. I just can't help but be baffled by the fact that EA has Madden, ESPN and a every oppurtunity to make a quality presentation but seemingly refuse to.