Same old issues again

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  • Big FN Deal
    Banned
    • Aug 2011
    • 5993

    #46
    Re: Same old issues again

    What I keep wondering is why won't EA let another studio create a separate NFL game from Madden, consumers get competition and EA still gets all the profit. They have the license and can use the NFL branding on any game the want to, so considering there are clearly people that just want a football game other than Madden, from a studio other than Tiburon, EA should seize on that demographic.

    This ties in with the thread because there are some strong consumer feelings, both positive and negative in relation to Madden's legacy, so still produce Madden for those that enjoy that brand and put out another NFL branded game for those that want something different. That's essentially what EA did with Head Coach 09 and NFL Street, so they should do the same thing with a more NFL realism focused separate title, built from the ground up.

    Madden will likely always be Madden and instead of beating our heads against the wall for that to change, maybe the gaming community could lobby EA to create what EA would likely see as a niche NFL football game.
    Last edited by Big FN Deal; 09-05-2014, 05:50 PM.

    Comment

    • kehlis
      Moderator
      • Jul 2008
      • 27738

      #47
      Re: Same old issues again

      Originally posted by Big FN Deal
      What I keep wondering is why won't EA let another studio create a separate NFL game from Madden, consumers get competition and EA still gets all the profit. The have the license and can use the NFL branding on any game the want to, so considering there are clearly people that just want a football game other than Madden, from a studio other than Tiburon, EA should seize on that demographic.



      This ties in with the thread because there are some strong consumer feelings, both positive and negative in relation to Madden's legacy, so still produce Madden for those that enjoy that brand and put out another NFL branded game for those that want something different. That's essentially what EA did with Head Coach 09 and NFL Street, so they should do the same thing with a more NFL realism focused separate title, built from the ground up.



      Madden will likely always be Madden and instead of beating our heads against the wall for that to change, maybe the gaming community could lobby EA to create what EA would likely see as a niche NFL football game.

      I have to be misunderstanding you but why would EA pay another studio to make a game separate from Madden? Totally counterproductive.

      Comment

      • Big FN Deal
        Banned
        • Aug 2011
        • 5993

        #48
        Re: Same old issues again

        Originally posted by kehlis
        I have to be misunderstanding you but why would EA pay another studio to make a game separate from Madden? Totally counterproductive.
        For the reason I listed in my first paragraph, to capture sales from those that want to play a football game other than Madden. I imagine that's a fairly large number of gamers judging by declining US sales for Madden over the years in spite of the growing popularity of NFL football, along with the record sales of games representing less popular sports in the US like Soccer and Basketball, not to mention those gamers that would likely buy both. Again, it's not unheard of considering EA has released Head Coach, NFL Street and a few other NFL branded games, in addition to Madden in the past.

        Comment

        • kehlis
          Moderator
          • Jul 2008
          • 27738

          #49
          Re: Same old issues again

          Originally posted by Big FN Deal
          For the reason I listed in my first paragraph, to capture sales from those that want to play a football game other than Madden. I imagine that's a fairly large number of gamers judging by declining US sales for Madden over the years in spite of the growing popularity of NFL football, along with the record sales of games representing less popular sports in the US like Soccer and Basketball, not to mention those gamers that would likely buy both. Again, it's not unheard of considering EA has released Head Coach, NFL Street and a few other NFL branded games, in addition to Madden in the past.
          I got what you were going for but still don't see how it makes sense. Isn't that why they paid for exclusivity?

          Either way, by sharing exclusivity and sharing profits you are defeating the purpose of paying for exclusivity.

          They don't really care about the small majority of people who aren't buying the game because enough people who aren't happy are still buying the game anyway.

          Comment

          • ajk49er
            Pro
            • Sep 2011
            • 715

            #50
            Re: Same old issues again

            see I think its more people than you think. I played Madden and football video games since 1992. this past 2 years, I have finally said "no more" and get my fix playing APF 2k8 and waiting for the day madden releases a game that isn't broken either in gameplay or in sim. I can't sim a season and get a realistic stat line, I can't sim 10 seasons and see realistic progression. I can't play the game with no ball physics and penalties. I can't play the game that requires no real thought to beat or play the CPU. the rating system is a joke and a mess, I get more out of a 3 star system than something that has 100 ratings.


            so I didn't buy a new Xbox One. because the only reason I played video games was for the football. I don't see a reason to do that. its a shame, you give me APF gameplay elements into madden, a smarter AI etc, all the things we have discussed in the past since 2005, and I am all in. that and the working sim engine. but this game is broken every year and they get away with it. people are impressed with the new graphics and that is enough. its sad to me. this doesn't replicate football, players have nothing that makes them different from other players. its all the same feel.


            and you will say "well why are you here, then". because I hope that someday I can come here after a madden release, and not see the same issues with the game that have been there now for over 10 years untouched.
            360-Chiefs-)

            Comment

            • Big FN Deal
              Banned
              • Aug 2011
              • 5993

              #51
              Re: Same old issues again

              Originally posted by kehlis
              I got what you were going for but still don't see how it makes sense. Isn't that why they paid for exclusivity?

              Either way, by sharing exclusivity and sharing profits you are defeating the purpose of paying for exclusivity.

              They don't really care about the small majority of people who aren't buying the game because enough people who aren't happy are still buying the game anyway.
              I guess that's where I disagree with you and EA because I would argue that the belief that an exclusive license is warranted should coincide with the belief that there is a sufficient demand for a competing product. The exclusive alone fails to capitalize on that demand but using it in tandem with EA producing a competing product does. Simply put, there are likely large numbers of gamers out there that want a different football game, whether that be gamers that currently choose not to buy one at all or those that only buy Madden because it's the only NFL choice. By producing another NFL game EA potentially taps into the anti-Madden demand, picks up sales from those buying both and maintains sales from those that just bought Madden because of the exclusive. Going by the sales of games representing less popular sports in the US and Madden sales in comparison to the NFL's popularity, I think it's a fair argument that producing Madden only, is under utilizing the exclusive NFL license.

              On a side note but in the same vein, it seems similar to what EA did when securing the exclusive license with ESPN as well. It begs to reason, imo, that if securing exclusive rights to such branding as the NFL and ESPN, they should be utilized as much and in as many games as possible, to maximize their ROI.

              Comment

              • SmashMan
                All Star
                • Dec 2004
                • 9754

                #52
                Re: Same old issues again

                Originally posted by Big FN Deal
                By producing another NFL game EA potentially taps into the anti-Madden demand, picks up sales from those buying both and maintains sales from those that just bought Madden because of the exclusive.
                To many people, EA and Madden are interchangeable when discussing this. I'd wonder how much this demand is 'anti-Madden' and how much is 'anti-EA football'. Basically, wouldn't people just see this hypothetical other game as another EA football game?

                I have no stats to back this up, but I'd wager that the majority of people who aren't buying don't differentiate Tiburon vs. EA Sports football as a whole, so EA producing a competing product would just be seen as "another Madden", for lack of a better term.

                Comment

                • Big FN Deal
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2011
                  • 5993

                  #53
                  Re: Same old issues again

                  Originally posted by SmashMan
                  To many people, EA and Madden are interchangeable when discussing this. I'd wonder how much this demand is 'anti-Madden' and how much is 'anti-EA football'. Basically, wouldn't people just see this hypothetical other game as another EA football game?

                  I have no stats to back this up, but I'd wager that the majority of people who aren't buying don't differentiate Tiburon vs. EA Sports football as a whole, so EA producing a competing product would just be seen as "another Madden", for lack of a better term.
                  A good point that I have considered and I do think there is an anti-EA segment as well, which could be tapped into by making it appear that EA isn't affiliated with the competing game, when they actually are. However I don't think that's necessary to tap into the large market that simply wants a different football game from Madden, no matter what company makes it. In fact, I think the anti-EA demographic, while maybe substantial, extends beyond NFL or sports gamers and isn't as large a number within those genres, as those that just want a different football game.

                  The main issue I notice gamers repeatedly have with Madden, is probably one of its' main assets for others, its' legacy. By simply allowing another studio to produce another NFL game from the ground up, EA inherently solves a consumer issue that Madden never will.

                  Comment

                  • Beardy
                    Just started!
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 1

                    #54
                    Re: Same old issues again

                    Agree with everything in the op and I'll add one more. Does anyone still bother to challenge plays? Since '08 it doesn't matter if the replay clearly shows you were in or out of bounds. It doesn't matter if you were clearly down or not when the ball came loose. The game just seems to randomly decide if a call is overturned regardless of the clear and obvious visual evidence.

                    Comment

                    • kehlis
                      Moderator
                      • Jul 2008
                      • 27738

                      #55
                      Re: Same old issues again

                      Originally posted by ajk49er
                      see I think its more people than you think. I played Madden and football video games since 1992. this past 2 years, I have finally said "no more" and get my fix playing APF 2k8 and waiting for the day madden releases a game that isn't broken either in gameplay or in sim. I can't sim a season and get a realistic stat line, I can't sim 10 seasons and see realistic progression. I can't play the game with no ball physics and penalties. I can't play the game that requires no real thought to beat or play the CPU. the rating system is a joke and a mess, I get more out of a 3 star system than something that has 100 ratings.


                      so I didn't buy a new Xbox One. because the only reason I played video games was for the football. I don't see a reason to do that. its a shame, you give me APF gameplay elements into madden, a smarter AI etc, all the things we have discussed in the past since 2005, and I am all in. that and the working sim engine. but this game is broken every year and they get away with it. people are impressed with the new graphics and that is enough. its sad to me. this doesn't replicate football, players have nothing that makes them different from other players. its all the same feel.


                      and you will say "well why are you here, then". because I hope that someday I can come here after a madden release, and not see the same issues with the game that have been there now for over 10 years untouched.

                      I'm not underestimating that group at all since I see it as a variable in this hypothetical that's irrelevant. I know how many there are that don't buy Madden.

                      The problem is the group of people that buy Madden because they need their football fix but would happily switch to a different game (I would put myself in that group). This group probably doubles the amount of people that currently refuse to buy the game.

                      It would be silly for EA to offer up a separate game that they would have to share profits with because they would lose so many of their current buyers.

                      Comment

                      • HealyMonster
                        Titans Era has begun.
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 5992

                        #56
                        Re: Same old issues again

                        Originally posted by ajk49er
                        see I think its more people than you think. I played Madden and football video games since 1992. this past 2 years, I have finally said "no more" and get my fix playing APF 2k8 and waiting for the day madden releases a game that isn't broken either in gameplay or in sim. I can't sim a season and get a realistic stat line, I can't sim 10 seasons and see realistic progression. I can't play the game with no ball physics and penalties. I can't play the game that requires no real thought to beat or play the CPU. the rating system is a joke and a mess, I get more out of a 3 star system than something that has 100 ratings.


                        so I didn't buy a new Xbox One. because the only reason I played video games was for the football. I don't see a reason to do that. its a shame, you give me APF gameplay elements into madden, a smarter AI etc, all the things we have discussed in the past since 2005, and I am all in. that and the working sim engine. but this game is broken every year and they get away with it. people are impressed with the new graphics and that is enough. its sad to me. this doesn't replicate football, players have nothing that makes them different from other players. its all the same feel.


                        and you will say "well why are you here, then". because I hope that someday I can come here after a madden release, and not see the same issues with the game that have been there now for over 10 years untouched.

                        Yeah, they got me this year. "If you've been away from madden, this is the year to come back". I last played 12 or 13 on the 360, hated it. Thought next gen, give 15 a shot. I really just posted my initial impressions, and haven't been on the forums. I downloaded sliders, tried all sorts of different things, the game feels like a mess. On the field I feel like they are tricking you into thinking you are playing football as opposed to the ai actually playing against you. That's fine, it's a game, whatever, but then you start simming, and stats are jacked, rosters start to get all jacked... You get to a point like wtf am I doing? How the heck is this even a game? It just doesn't do anything it's supposed to do, and it's like the syndrome of like "it's just a start, it'll be better next year" but no, the 60 dollars I paid wasn't for hopes and dreams or promises, it was for a football game, and I feel ripped off. We were saying the same "it's a good start " in 07, I swear the same stuff, how do they keep getting us every year with it?

                        Comment

                        • JHTJ
                          Rookie
                          • Jul 2011
                          • 62

                          #57
                          Re: Same old issues again

                          I have to agree with the original sentiments of this thread, I'm disappointed with my purchase. Sure it looks good, but that's the lowest level expectation at this point in console evolution. This is the year for NBA2K. A game that ive purchased used twice in forever, but looks like the simulation of the future. Ill be trading madden in for 2K on release, something I'm actually excited for.
                          "640k ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

                          Comment

                          • roadman
                            *ll St*r
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 26339

                            #58
                            Re: Same old issues again

                            Big, I like your premise on the whole, but EA has taken some hits in the court areas.

                            Starting up a new technology laden studio probably would cost millions and millions of dollars with all of the overhead, probably not something they are willing to risk for.

                            Comment

                            • birthday_massacre
                              Pro
                              • Jan 2013
                              • 614

                              #59
                              Re: Same old issues again

                              Originally posted by Beardy
                              Agree with everything in the op and I'll add one more. Does anyone still bother to challenge plays? Since '08 it doesn't matter if the replay clearly shows you were in or out of bounds. It doesn't matter if you were clearly down or not when the ball came loose. The game just seems to randomly decide if a call is overturned regardless of the clear and obvious visual evidence.
                              I agree. I had a play that my WR clearly had both feet in bounds and it was called INC, so I challenged and the play stood. There is no point in challenging.

                              Comment

                              • Big FN Deal
                                Banned
                                • Aug 2011
                                • 5993

                                #60
                                Re: Same old issues again

                                Originally posted by roadman
                                Big, I like your premise on the whole, but EA has taken some hits in the court areas.

                                Starting up a new technology laden studio probably would cost millions and millions of dollars with all of the overhead, probably not something they are willing to risk for.
                                I was thinking more along the lines of an existing studio creating another NFL branded football game for EA, as opposed to them starting an entirely new one but I get your point. Likely there would be some cost in even an existing studio taking on the development of a new football game, which is a valid hurdle but they moved NBA Live from EA Canada to Tiburon, I believe, so it's not unheard of. I'm just of the opinion that Madden is limited by its' legacy and Tiburon's approach to dealing with it all these years, both of which wouldn't be an issue with an entirely different EA football game, developed in a different studio.

                                For whatever reasons I doubt EA would ever do what I'm suggesting anyway, I just decided to post about it because I'm tired of hoping or suggesting Madden ever become anything else.

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