I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

[JMD]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

It's just so, so broken. But beyond that. How we all sit on here the past few years, trying everything anyone can think of to manipulate this game into even a remotely realistic NFL football experience. And only a few give up (I did last year, for the first time in my life, which would span back to the 1st Madden releases on the Genesis), and I'm about to again, but hundreds and hundreds work diligently to try to squeeze just a little of what we all want out of this. But the craziest part is, like.....how convinced one group of people can be on a concept, or a theory, and then you read one post down, and it's a whole seperate set of people, sold on the same problem fix with complete opposite numbers.

100 pass block, 0 pass block......85 Intentional Grounding, 5 Intentional Grounding...... This is seriously driving me out of my skull. Even if I do set up a slider/theory combo that seems ok, I can't enjoy one single second of it, because I'm constantly second guessing everything about the game. And this isn't entirely "slideritis", I'm usually pretty good about dealing with that. This company has become a joke. They owe us, all of us, not just $65 for their annual broken games, but for the ungodly amount of time everyone ultimately wastes on this. Remember, for every one of the 2 or so dozen of you main slider guys, there is another dozen or two reading along, testing endlessly, and wasting their lives.......This sucks, all we want is a decent game. Man, I sure wish 2k could still make one, this would have been the 10th or 11th one......Arg, sorry for the rant about crap you already know, and thanks for everyones hard work......

I was the same as you. Every year I would come here and check out the different sliders sets and end up scratching my head as to why they are so different. Starting with Madden 13 I made the decision to start making my own. Now to do this takes time and patience.

Here's what I do. I put the game in, I'm a Chiefs fan so I always use them. I play about 6 to 12 games in play now on all pro default settings for everything. I play against top teams as well as the low rated teams. I take notes as to what I see relating to real life football. Example: QB to accurate back off that slider a bit, too many catches, not seeng and dropped balls, lower WR catch and so on. Then I make my changes , one slider at a time and play more games

I usually spend all of September and October just in play now making my adjustments, sometimes longer. Then when I get the game where I want it , I start my offline franchise. Now because the game usually plays different in franchise mode I play a full season and continue my adjustments.

At this point I feel the game is as good as its going to get so I go get the most current roster and start my franchise and play away, that is until EA tunes the game , then it back to testing again.

It truely is a maddening experience ( pun intended ) however this year I'm finally having some great football games. Hard fought battles as well as shootouts and even blowouts. I've seen the CPU throw the deep ball several times, I've seen the QB break out of the grasp of a defender and complete a pass, broken tackles , fumbles, tip toe sideline catches and so on.

The thing about slider sets is everyone plays the game differently and has a different skill level, so it's tough to just plug a set in and go. I also think,it makes a difference what team you use. A higher rated team may need more slider adjustments to give the CPU a better chance of winning.

In the end I feel the problem is EA should be able to get this game playing the way it should on the default settings, and we shouldn't gave to spend months tuning it ourselves.

[roadman]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

And with this site being so ban happy, I didn't see Ian Cummings or similar people 'harassed' either. I've seen the opposite though, with some 'stealth' bashing of other users just because they're critical of a game, or with their 'witty' one liners, "You must have a different disc..", yet they aren't banned, closed topic at most.

:

Just because you didn't see it happen, doesn't mean it didn't. For the mods, this forum was difficult to moderate at that time.

Everyone should be allowed an opinion, good, bad or indifferent, it just matters how constructive or going over the top that opinion is.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

Not to mention the fact that football is a much more difficult game to program for than baseball.

There was a lot I wanted to respond to here but after I saw this line this was the only one that was worth it. I see this written here a lot and the fact of the matter is its not true. Every game is different and has its own set of challenges. The difficulty comes into play based on the scope of what the developer is trying to do. Any game that strives for complex off season management and contracts, complex and advanced AI sets, realistic player movements and interactions, etc etc is going to be more "difficult" to build. It's a bit tougher to engineer an Aston Martin than it is a yugo hatchback. The simplistic and unpolished nature of madden would lead one to believe that it's actually not very difficult at all to develop. All players moving when the ball is thrown, lineman spinning in circles or standing up staring into space, players reacting to juke moves on the other side of the field, warping, shifting, reaching through bodies, Wrs and Dbs going into simultaneous catch animations. Or how about the contracts, injuries and team management? You're really going to compare that to the show? Really??? A football game isn't any harder or easier than any other software to build. It's only harder for Tiburon.

[mlb61]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

There was a lot I wanted to respond to here but after I saw this line this was the only one that was worth it. I see this written here a lot and the fact of the matter is its not true. Every game is different and has its own set of challenges. The difficulty comes into play based on the scope of what the developer is trying to do. Any game that strives for complex off season management and contracts, complex and advanced AI sets, realistic player movements and interactions, etc etc is going to be more "difficult" to build. It's a bit tougher to engineer an Aston Martin than it is a yugo hatchback. The simplistic and unpolished nature of madden would lead one to believe that it's actually not very difficult at all to develop. All players moving when the ball is thrown, lineman spinning in circles or standing up staring into space, players reacting to juke moves on the other side of the field, warping, shifting, reaching through bodies, Wrs and Dbs going into simultaneous catch animations. Or how about the contracts, injuries and team management? You're really going to compare that to the show? Really??? A football game isn't any harder or easier than any other software to build. It's only harder for Tiburon.

It is true. Football is a very difficult game to model. You just repeat yourself over and over about Madden and Tiburon. The Show has many, many shortcomings despite baseball being a rather simple game to model (as a finite state space machine).

[GiantBlue76]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

It is true. Football is a very difficult games to model. You just repeat yourself over and over about Madden and Tiburon. The Show has many, many shortcomings despite baseball being a rather simple game to model (as a finite state space machine).

No, it's just that I'm saying something you don't want to hear. You can believe what you want, it makes no difference to me. I can say you also repeat yourself about madden and tiburon. The fact is my opinion is different than yours, so in your mind you don't want to hear it. Simple solution... Ignore it then. Works for me!

[oneamongthefence]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

There was a lot I wanted to respond to here but after I saw this line this was the only one that was worth it. I see this written here a lot and the fact of the matter is its not true. Every game is different and has its own set of challenges. The difficulty comes into play based on the scope of what the developer is trying to do. Any game that strives for complex off season management and contracts, complex and advanced AI sets, realistic player movements and interactions, etc etc is going to be more "difficult" to build. It's a bit tougher to engineer an Aston Martin than it is a yugo hatchback. The simplistic and unpolished nature of madden would lead one to believe that it's actually not very difficult at all to develop. All players moving when the ball is thrown, lineman spinning in circles or standing up staring into space, players reacting to juke moves on the other side of the field, warping, shifting, reaching through bodies, Wrs and Dbs going into simultaneous catch animations. Or how about the contracts, injuries and team management? You're really going to compare that to the show? Really??? A football game isn't any harder or easier than any other software to build. It's only harder for Tiburon.

I would imagine the processing power is much greater for a football game than it is for baseball since there's a lot more going on. But I also see too many shortcuts that may be a product of last gens processing power limits. Last years Madden was just a cleaned up prettier version of last gen so this year is the first next gen build of the game. I know it's an excuse we've heard for years but maybe they'll get it right as they learn the new technology more. But I would say that comparing baseball and football is like comparing apples and oranges in terms of AI needed. That's my assumption anyway.

[cvmchj]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

Apparently there is a point in business where a corporation actually gets too big to care...

[mlb61]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

No, it's just that I'm saying something you don't want to hear. You can believe what you want, it makes no difference to me. I can say you also repeat yourself about madden and tiburon. The fact is my opinion is different than yours, so in your mind you don't want to hear it. Simple solution... Ignore it then. Works for me!

Any comments I make about Madden always focus on specifics, on its strategy and tactics. I never carry on a meta dialogue imbued with grandiose conceptions, sweeping generalizations, and an agenda with talking points that are repeated at every opportunity.

I don't give a fig what your opinion is. It's your behavior, your repetitive talking points that tend to drown out well-reasoned dialogue and obsure critical thinking that I find, to put it simply, less than useless.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

Any comments I make about Madden always focus on specifics, on its strategy and tactics. I never carry on a meta dialogue imbued with grandiose conceptions, sweeping generalizations, and an agenda with talking points that are repeated at every opportunity. I don't give a fig what your opinion is. It's your behavior, your repetitive talking points that tend to drown out well-reasoned dialogue and obsure critical thinking that I find, to put it simply, less than useless.

Lol, there's that word again, agenda.

Madden is the best game I've ever played, it's so good that anyone who thinks its not just hates. They don't want to add any value. If you don't like madden like I do, your thoughts are repetitive, useless, counter productive, and don't do anyone any good. Madden 15 is a fantastic football game and the developers are doing everything they can to provide us with the best experience possible. Anyone who doesn't see that is simply agenda posting. Especially you Giantblue, you've never spent countless hours putting together long documents or posts describing in detail what has or can be improved. You've never formulated well thought out ideas or innovations that could enhance the experience for everyone. You've never once worked with developers to provide valuable feedback. All you do is hate on madden and tiburon, and that AGENDA that you push, (since agendas only are relevant when you hate on madden) are just so tiresome.

[cpic1]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

Only a "*****" would say this game isn't any good. If you watch NFL games every week this game nails it! 1-2 penalties between both teams per game, spot on! QBs completing 90% of their passes, spot on! Offensive lineman coming out of their stance and staring ahead while the guy right in front of them goes passed them to drill the QB, spot on! Defensive backs spinning completely around on simple routes, spot on! I can't imagine why anyone would say this game isn't realistic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Big FN Deal]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

Lol, there's that word again, agenda.

Madden is the best game I've ever played, it's so good that anyone who thinks its not just hates. They don't want to add any value. If you don't like madden like I do, your thoughts are repetitive, useless, counter productive, and don't do anyone any good. Madden 15 is a fantastic football game and the developers are doing everything they can to provide us with the best experience possible. Anyone who doesn't see that is simply agenda posting. Especially you Giantblue, you've never spent countless hours putting together long documents or posts describing in detail what has or can be improved. You've never formulated well thought out ideas or innovations that could enhance the experience for everyone. You've never once worked with developers to provide valuable feedback. All you do is hate on madden and tiburon, and that AGENDA that you push, (since agendas only are relevant when you hate on madden) are just so tiresome.

Only a "*****" would say this game isn't any good. If you watch NFL games every week this game nails it! 1-2 penalties between both teams per game, spot on! QBs completing 90% of their passes, spot on! Offensive lineman coming out of their stance and staring ahead while the guy right in front of them goes passed them to drill the QB, spot on! Defensive backs spinning completely around on simple routes, spot on! I can't imagine why anyone would say this game isn't realistic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

These posts are spot on and had me smirking thinking about how defensive some get over Madden because they get something out of it. It reminded me of this old rundown house my grandmother left me when she passed away, one I had spent many a years in. The house was rundown and old, all kind of structural issues but for me it had all kind of value. If anyone were to point out all the factual issues with that house, it wouldn't make it any less a home to me, it was both a structurally flawed house and a valued home to me. Likewise with Madden, just because people point out, gripe, anguish over the issues with it, that shouldn't be taken as an attack or affront on anyone that gets something out of the game.

One more thing I want to mention while on this subject, I've always found it odd the way people choose to post their displeasure with "negative" Madden posts, in threads where the title and/or op are clearly "negative". It seems to me like someone voluntarily walking into a strip club to rant about how tired they are of drinking, loud music and lewd conduct everywhere, lol.

[mlb61]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

Lol, there's that word again, agenda.

Madden is the best game I've ever played, it's so good that anyone who thinks its not just hates. They don't want to add any value. If you don't like madden like I do, your thoughts are repetitive, useless, counter productive, and don't do anyone any good. Madden 15 is a fantastic football game and the developers are doing everything they can to provide us with the best experience possible. Anyone who doesn't see that is simply agenda posting. Especially you Giantblue, you've never spent countless hours putting together long documents or posts describing in detail what has or can be improved. You've never formulated well thought out ideas or innovations that could enhance the experience for everyone. You've never once worked with developers to provide valuable feedback. All you do is hate on madden and tiburon, and that AGENDA that you push, (since agendas only are relevant when you hate on madden) are just so tiresome.

Typical post by you: Overblown rhetoric masquerading as analysis. No doubt you've spent time creating doucuments espousing your basic tenet that the current development team can never make the game better. Despite that view you contine to be emotionally invested in the game (witness your emotional rhetoric). The game doesn't play you want it to, viva la revolution! Where do you get your sense of entitlement from?

[mlb61]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

These posts are spot on and had me smirking thinking about how defensive some get over Madden because they get something out of it. It reminded me of this old rundown house my grandmother left me when she passed away, one I had spent many a years in. The house was rundown and old, all kind of structural issues but for me it had all kind of value. If anyone were to point out all the factual issues with that house, it wouldn't make it any less a home to me, it was both a structurally flawed house and a valued home to me. Likewise with Madden, just because people point out, gripe, anguish over the issues with it, that shouldn't be taken as an attack or affront on anyone that gets something out of the game.

One more thing I want to mention while on this subject, I've always found it odd the way people choose to post their displeasure with "negative" Madden posts, in threads where the title and/or op are clearly "negative". It seems to me like someone voluntarily walking into a strip club to rant about how tired they are of drinking, loud music and lewd conduct everywhere, lol.

The title isn't negative. Had it been, I wouldn't have wasted my time reading the thread. The reason I did read it was the last poster was rushinplayallgame, someone who has done some stellar analysis of Madden 15 (unlike the "madden is so broken" chorus). Note I have not said one word in defense of Madden in this thread. I merely pointed out the falseness of a statement that 1) all sports games are equally challenging to abstract, model, and program; 2) contradicted the opinion that The Show is an ideal sports video game; and 3) questioned GaintBlue's motivation for making two statements that I regard as obviously false. You may be right about Madden being built on a decrepit foundation. Since I haven't seen the code or how it is organized, I have no way of knowing. But what I don't understand is if you really think so, why you waste time here, instead trying to make a different game, better game. That's something, as opposed to propagandizing, I would have respect for.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

Typical post by you: Overblown rhetoric masquerading as analysis. No doubt you've spent time creating doucuments espousing your basic tenet that the current development can never make the game better. Despite that view you contine to be emotionally invested in the game (witness your emotional rhetoric). The game doesn't play you want it to, viva la revolution! Where do you get your sense of entitlement from?

There is no sense of entitlement. You are the one who attacked me. I have no issue with anyone who enjoys the game. The fact is that I am speaking based on experiences and discussions over 10 years. You don't like what I am saying because it does not align with your opinion. Therefore, you decided yourself to take issue with me and resort to a personal attack rather than a discussion as to why you disagree. It upsets you that you are not getting affirmation from others that the developers are top notch. I spoke nothing of a revolution either. I am not emotionally invested in Madden, I am emotionally invested in having a quality, simulation football game to play. There is a difference, and there is only one current game.

What's even more comical, is that you've been around here for how long? 2 months?

I've been playing football games since the early 80s. I've seen all kinds. There have been some good, great and poor games. The numerous elements that are just flat out missing from Madden in 2014 is very telling. Not to mention the number of things that just flat out don't work correctly. Most, if not all, of these things have been implemented in past football games - including madden itself.

Giving developers 10 years to pull their proverbial heads out is more than enough time to show they can implement something special don't you think? Especially with the resources available to them and their gaming empire. I haven't seen the source code either, but based on discussions I've had with people who have and people who have both worked on the game and been consultants for it, it's not a pretty sight. That's 25 years of legacy code for you.

As for working towards a better game, sorry to burst your bubble bud, but many people here (and other places) have done more to try to do that in the last 7 years than you could comprehend. After nearly a decade of broken and false promises, numerous 3 year plans, sloppy and poorly implemented games, people tend to get a bit jaded.

Like I said before, if you enjoy the game (which is all that really matters), feel free to voice that opinion and back it up with why you do. That's what "discussion" is all about. However, by attacking me (and others) the way you have, you are simply pushing your "agenda" and impressing no one.

[mlb61]

Re: I've never experienced anything quite like this.....

There is no sense of entitlement. You are the one who attacked me. I have no issue with anyone who enjoys the game. The fact is that I am speaking based on experiences and discussions over 10 years. You don't like what I am saying because it does not align with your opinion. Therefore, you decided yourself to take issue with me and resort to a personal attack rather than a discussion as to why you disagree. It upsets you that you are not getting affirmation from others that the developers are top notch. I spoke nothing of a revolution either. I am not emotionally invested in Madden, I am emotionally invested in having a quality, simulation football game to play. There is a difference, and there is only one current game.

What's even more comical, is that you've been around here for how long? 2 months?

I've been playing football games since the early 80s. I've seen all kinds. There have been some good, great and poor games. The numerous elements that are just flat out missing from Madden in 2014 is very telling. Not to mention the number of things that just flat out don't work correctly. Most, if not all, of these things have been implemented in past football games - including madden itself.

Giving developers 10 years to pull their proverbial heads out is more than enough time to show they can implement something special don't you think? Especially with the resources available to them and their gaming empire. I haven't seen the source code either, but based on discussions I've had with people who have and people who have both worked on the game and been consultants for it, it's not a pretty sight. That's 25 years of legacy code for you.

As for working towards a better game, sorry to burst your bubble bud, but many people here (and other places) have done more to try to do that in the last 7 years than you could comprehend. After nearly a decade of broken and false promises, numerous 3 year plans, sloppy and poorly implemented games, people tend to get a bit jaded.

Like I said before, if you enjoy the game (which is all that really matters), feel free to voice that opinion and back it up with why you do. That's what "discussion" is all about. However, by attacking me (and others) the way you have, you are simply pushing your "agenda" and impressing no one.

If attacking you is pointing out the repetitive nature of your Madden posts and what is in my view incorrect information, then I am guilty. I most definitely have not attacked you personally. I find your behavior in preaching the message of a broken game and a broken development team to be annoying and distracting (if the goal is a better game). What does how long I've been here matter? You boast of playing football games since the early 80s? I've been playing football, and playing and making football, games since the early 50s. My only agenda is to make the best I can of a Madden I wish were far different and had far fewer loose ends. I don't see you trying to do that. I see you trying to recruit others to your point of view, which is that Madden and its development team are completely, hopelessly broken. If I believed that, I would find another football game to play, even if I had to make it myself with pencil and paper.