Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

[rkocjay]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

I love reading topics like this it sums up the needs madden needs to add or improve on its just up to them to listen. I'm a huge madden fan since 2005 so I hope its worth it this year or I'll slip for the first time ever

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

I don't doubt that Rex Dickson and his team want to make an authentic video game. I think it's a noble goal to strive for and a valid creative vision. But it's just that, a video game. To that end the game is going to be inherently unrealistic at some level, concessions to authenticity are going to be made on that account because we're ultimately still talking about a video game. And I'm okay with that. Further, I obviously don't have the platform or power with which to change Tiburon's creative vision and I mostly enjoy what they do produce each year at this point - admittedly I do have some gripes - so I'm happy with my purchase each year.

You keep saying Madden is a video game, no ****, I had no idea. I have no problem with it being a video game. I have a problem with it being a video game that does't consistently target the realism that has been set by previous football "video games" and is the target of the dev team. A majority of us aren't asking for things that haven't been done before.

There are tons of videos on Ryan Moody's youtube channel that document these ridiculous problems that I personally share with him.

I'm just asking for more consistency in Madden. I don't want perfection. I just want things to make sense. I don't want to have to play it the "Madden" way to be successful or enjoy it. I want to play football.

The mechanics, accessibility, and controls are the things I want to be video game, everything else should replicate what I see on Sundays as closely as possible. It should be the standard by now, and it's not.

I'm not going back and saying damn, NBA Live 05 has all these things NBA 2k15 doesn't have. MVP Baseball 05's animations were better than The Show 15.

Tiburon has to constantly remind me that I'm playing a video game. I want to be immersed. At this point Madden is simcade, which is fine, but don't tell me you're selling me the most authentic football game possible. Don' tell me you have the best line play in videogame history.

People always say Madden(insert year here) was a step in the right direction. Yes Madden 15 was a step in the right direction, but when the **** are we gonna get there?

[DoShawn]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

maybe they will finally improve the precision passing

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

With Madden the thing is that they are tone-deaf to what their fans want, and instead seemingly operate in a vacuum. They tend to do things like, push things onto fans which aren't wanted, develop the game to exploit the NFL branding only to make money without any attempt to recreate compelling gameplay. Also for new editions, they prioritize certain changes and additions over the ones their fans want.

In the case of WR/DB interaction, sure it's something we have clamored for yet that's likely being used as another excuse for attempting to reinvent the wheel by continuing this realism/arcade hybrid, which nobody asked for, they just started telling gamers that's what they wanted. When gamers say "fix WR/DB interaction", what they mean is "make it function on par with the best player interactions to date we've experienced in other applicable video games", not "we have always found WR/DB interaction to be so boring in video games, please make it fun".

With so much football either fundamentally broken or missing in Madden, it baffles the mind that they would choose to focus entire dev cycles on reinventing specific aspects like WR/DB interaction vs just getting the game complete and on par with past football games, even past maddens, first. I know of no other sports sim other than Madden were one can go as far back as a decade or even more and still find aspects that function more realistic.

For me until I see a drastic impact of all this touted realism which viscerally changes Madden, I've stopped caring about it by-and-large for now, except as a something to discuss every now and again to mark time.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

With Madden the thing is that they are tone-deaf to what their fans want, and instead seemingly operate in a vacuum. They tend to do things like, push things onto fans which aren't wanted, develop the game to exploit the NFL branding only to make money without any attempt to recreate compelling gameplay. Also for new editions, they prioritize certain changes and additions over the ones their fans want.

In the case of WR/DB interaction, sure it's something we have clamored for yet that's likely being used as another excuse for attempting to reinvent the wheel by continuing this realism/arcade hybrid, which nobody asked for, they just started telling gamers that's what they wanted. When gamers say "fix WR/DB interaction", what they mean is "make it function on par with the best player interactions to date we've experienced in other applicable video games", not "we have always found WR/DB interaction to be so boring in video games, please make it fun".

With so much football either fundamentally broken or missing in Madden, it baffles the mind that they would choose to focus entire dev cycles on reinventing specific aspects like WR/DB interaction vs just getting the game complete and on par with past football games, even past maddens, first. I know of no other sports sim other than Madden were one can go as far back as a decade or even more and still find aspects that function more realistic.

For me until I see a drastic impact of all this touted realism which viscerally changes Madden, I've stopped caring about it by-and-large for now, except as a something to discuss every now and again to mark time.

This sounds like the actual NFL to me.

I have lost so much interest in real NFL football on Goodels watch. It's pretty sad. The NFL I knew.....is dead to me.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

This sounds like the actual NFL to me.

I have lost so much interest in real NFL football on Goodels watch. It's pretty sad. The NFL I knew.....is dead to me.

Now that's an interesting topic and would make a good thread in the Pro Football section of OS, if it hasn't already been created

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

You keep saying Madden is a video game, no ****, I had no idea.

I'll ask you once to please stop patronizing me, thanks. I was restating that to frame my point.

People always say Madden(insert year here) was a step in the right direction. Yes Madden 15 was a step in the right direction, but when the **** are we gonna get there?

Honestly? Probably never.

There's a really strong track record going back to the PS2 days establishing Madden as what it currently is - a series that likes to sit on the fence between authenticity and accessibility. We also know there are lots of people like the vision and current direction of the series, as evidenced by the generally positive critical consensus and the multi-million sales numbers.

And really, if ten years of the sim standard audience yelling outrage about Tiburon's creative direction for and implementation of various things in the game on OS and Tiburon reacting with various changes / reimplementations / feature adds hasn't appeased people or even given the impression that Tiburon cares about the game they make, what's another one?

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

With Madden the thing is that they are tone-deaf to what their fans want, and instead seemingly operate in a vacuum. They tend to do things like, push things onto fans which aren't wanted, develop the game to exploit the NFL branding only to make money without any attempt to recreate compelling gameplay. Also for new editions, they prioritize certain changes and additions over the ones their fans want.

You've gotten it twisted.

Tiburon is making the game they want to make, they are following their creative vision as artists and game developers. It's up to you whether you enjoy the product they are making, which from the tenor of your posts you've clearly established you don't. They aren't really obligated to listen to their audience full cloth, though it's useful to solicit some feedback and massage that into future versions.

The mob doesn't get a say in how the developer makes a thing; the artist paints what he wants. The mob can decide what a developer makes, however, by choosing not to buy or even entertain the products they aren't interested in or don't approve of.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

People always say Madden(insert year here) was a step in the right direction. Yes Madden 15 was a step in the right direction, but when the **** are we gonna get there?

Truth. As some will recall, I was onboard with the vision and progression of the series from M10-12. I was ok with improvement year to year. But man, the vision should be realized by now. It baffles me how other games in this genre can/have reinvented themselves in just a few cycles, but Madden can't turn that corner.

There's a really strong track record going back to the PS2 days establishing Madden as what it currently is - a series that likes to sit on the fence between authenticity and accessibility. We also know there are lots of people like the vision and current direction of the series, as evidenced by the generally positive critical consensus and the multi-million sales numbers.

This is also true -- which is why I still don't understand why PS2 era editions were held in such high regard.

Still, the caveat is that every other AAA sports title has shown that you can gear the game towards authenticity, and still come up on the right side of accessibility. Their current approach still lends itself to Madden having an identity issue.

[aholbert32]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

With Madden the thing is that they are tone-deaf to what their fans want, and instead seemingly operate in a vacuum. They tend to do things like, push things onto fans which aren't wanted, develop the game to exploit the NFL branding only to make money without any attempt to recreate compelling gameplay. Also for new editions, they prioritize certain changes and additions over the ones their fans want.

In the case of WR/DB interaction, sure it's something we have clamored for yet that's likely being used as another excuse for attempting to reinvent the wheel by continuing this realism/arcade hybrid, which nobody asked for, they just started telling gamers that's what they wanted. When gamers say "fix WR/DB interaction", what they mean is "make it function on par with the best player interactions to date we've experienced in other applicable video games", not "we have always found WR/DB interaction to be so boring in video games, please make it fun".

With so much football either fundamentally broken or missing in Madden, it baffles the mind that they would choose to focus entire dev cycles on reinventing specific aspects like WR/DB interaction vs just getting the game complete and on par with past football games, even past maddens, first. I know of no other sports sim other than Madden were one can go as far back as a decade or even more and still find aspects that function more realistic.

For me until I see a drastic impact of all this touted realism which viscerally changes Madden, I've stopped caring about it by-and-large for now, except as a something to discuss every now and again to mark time.

I dont think thats true at all. Madden listens to their fans. They listen to the Madden tournament players. They listen to the casual online players. They listen to casual NFL fans who arent concerned with realism and things like penalties or formation subs.

They dont listen to us though. However you describe us...the "sim" players...hardcore fans....realism junkies....they dont listen to us. The reason why is because we make up a small portion of the people who buy this game. If that wasnt the case Madden's forums, their devs twitter accounts and facebook pages would be flooded with people demanding that they have realistic penalties, animations and things like total control over franchise or out of game formation subs.

**** we have people on this site (the hardcore fan site) who argue that the dev team should waste time working on features like realistic penalties because penalties "take the fun out of the game."

The counter that I hear all the time is "Even the casuals would appreciate a more realistic game" and I completely agree with this. The problem is EA isnt willing to risk alienating its casual fans by creating a more realistic game. Their approach is to slowly drag us toward a realistic game so that its not a shock to the casual fans.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

This is also true -- which is why I still don't understand why PS2 era editions were held in such high regard.

Still, the caveat is that every other AAA sports title has shown that you can gear the game towards authenticity, and still come up on the right side of accessibility. Their current approach still lends itself to Madden having an identity issue.

The only things I hold in high regard to the PS2 era of Madden is the animation quality/smoothness and the consistency of the things that occurred on the field. Things made sense for the most part. Also the tiny detail of refs actually throwing flags on penalties. That still has not been matched on PS4 imo. Other than that Madden was never the leader in innovation and realism. It was a fun game with a deep legacy, which is fine, but these devs are trying to talk that talk and the walk is not matching it.

Like I said I wish they would just keep it a buck with the type of game they're trying to make. How much does anyone want to bet whatever mechanic they spend their time adding this year, it's not touched or refined the following year?

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

The only things I hold in high regard to the PS2 era of Madden is the animation quality/smoothness and the consistency of the things that occurred on the field. Things made sense for the most part. Also the tiny detail of refs actually throwing flags on penalties. That still has not been matched on PS4 imo. Other than that Madden was never the leader in innovation and realism. It was a fun game with a deep legacy, which is fine, but these devs are trying to talk that talk and the walk is not matching it.

Like I said I wish they would just keep it a buck with the type of game they're trying to make. How much does anyone want to bet whatever mechanic they spend their time adding this year, it's not touched or refined the following year?

Posted from a Q and A 1.5 years ago: We need to hold them to this.

Q: In your perspective, what are the features that you're most excited about with Madden 25?

Rex: The one biggest thing we'd like you to take away from next gen is the team driving the stake in the ground about the direction we want to take this game with next gen. It's not necessarily the same direction that we have been going in on gen 3. That direction we're heading is firmly towards realism authenticity and a realistic representation of the sport. I think for many years Madden has been a great game and it's been fun for a lot of people, but it's definitely played more like Madden than realistic, authentic football and I think a lot of people still feel like they can't get a true simulation experience out of the game. This dev team is committed to giving them that game. Gen 4, this first year, I think you'll find is the most realistic representation of the sport that we have ever built. It's really just the tip of the iceberg about where we are going.


Q: Do we see the war in the trenches as something that's a focus long term?

Rex: I'll take you a step further than that, everything that we build from this point forward is going to be a long term investment. The years of us building a back of the box feature like QB vision and taking it out a year or two later, those days are over. Two years ago we started working on our physics engine, and two years later we're still working on it. We started working on blocking last year, and we're working on it for next year, we have a 3-4 year plan for what this blocking team is going to work on. Obviously there are still a lot of other things we need to get to, gap play, true gap play, a overhaul of our play action system is another one of those things. Everything we do from now on is a long term investment.

Q: Is route based throwing, throwing to a spot, rather than having the ball tethered to a wr, something that is being looked at?

Rex: You're going to see quite a bit more of that on gen 4. I think one of the key pieces to that with the ball always hitting the wr in stride, that's one thing we are looking at right now for next year. We feel there's potentially some big wins in that space if we actually model some kind of inaccuracy system to throws. What you will see in Madden 25 on gen 4 though, is route timing being thrown off by bumps or collisions between wr's or good press by a DB.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

You've gotten it twisted.

Tiburon is making the game they want to make, they are following their creative vision as artists and game developers. It's up to you whether you enjoy the product they are making, which from the tenor of your posts you've clearly established you don't. They aren't really obligated to listen to their audience full cloth, though it's useful to solicit some feedback and massage that into future versions.

The mob doesn't get a say in how the developer makes a thing; the artist paints what he wants. The mob can decide what a developer makes, however, by choosing not to buy or even entertain the products they aren't interested in or don't approve of.

This right here furthers my point I made awhile back that I don't believe you really believe some of the stuff you post in relation to Madden, you just do it for the sake of discussion or whatever, which is cool. However it's unfortunate that some may read some of this stuff and think you are actually being genuine with some of the more peculiar positions.

What I'm referring to is, the section of my post you chose to specifically quote and respond to was based on a similar point you made in a post awhile back, which now you seem to be debating against. As to be fair and not accused of any kind of silly "I gotcha" mess, I didnt direct the post at you nor did I quote you fully, I added plenty of my own thoughts and sentiments, yet you still managed to isolate the part which most closely mirrored your own earlier statements to rebutt.

Spoiler

EA's biggest problem - not just at Tiburon, but across most of the studios they own and operate - is that they are tone-deaf to what their fans want, and instead seemingly operate in a vacuum. The publisher obviously has the talent across their various studios to make good games, as evidenced by that over the past three years EA as a publisher has ranked 3rd, 1st, and 4th in the aggregate Metacritic publisher rankings; like it or not, Metacritic has become the assessment of quality in the gaming space for now, so much so that industry bonuses are tied to Metacritic scores.

However, EA studios tend to do things like: push things onto fans which aren't wanted (ex. online-only play in SimCity); develop games which exploit intellectual property and exist only to make money without any attempt to create compelling gameplay (ex. Dungeon Keeper); or, in recurring series, prioritize certain changes and additions over the ones their fans want (ex. any number of frivolous changes in the Madden NFL series, as you alluded to; for me personally, I would have rather seen Tiburon in Madden NFL 25 add more depth in the roster management mechanics in CFM than a retooled Owner Mode, so let's roll with that). Adding in the tumultuous launch of Battlefield 4 - a game many people enjoy and is a significant technological achievement big-picture, but for the longest time was rife with technical issues in its online gameplay and was obviously rushed out the door to meet the Gen-8 console launch window - doesn't do them any favors, either. These things are the primary reasons as to why EA has such a poor public perception, despite that EA is consistently among industry leaders with respect to quality of product.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...&postcount=156

So again I honestly enjoy our discussions about various things, it just becomes difficult at times to tell when you're stating what you actually believe vs just playing devil's advocate or whatever.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

Posted from a Q and A 1.5 years ago: We need to hold them to this.

Q: In your perspective, what are the features that you're most excited about with Madden 25?

Rex: The one biggest thing we'd like you to take away from next gen is the team driving the stake in the ground about the direction we want to take this game with next gen. It's not necessarily the same direction that we have been going in on gen 3. That direction we're heading is firmly towards realism authenticity and a realistic representation of the sport. I think for many years Madden has been a great game and it's been fun for a lot of people, but it's definitely played more like Madden than realistic, authentic football and I think a lot of people still feel like they can't get a true simulation experience out of the game. This dev team is committed to giving them that game. Gen 4, this first year, I think you'll find is the most realistic representation of the sport that we have ever built. It's really just the tip of the iceberg about where we are going.


Q: Do we see the war in the trenches as something that's a focus long term?

Rex: I'll take you a step further than that, everything that we build from this point forward is going to be a long term investment. The years of us building a back of the box feature like QB vision and taking it out a year or two later, those days are over. Two years ago we started working on our physics engine, and two years later we're still working on it. We started working on blocking last year, and we're working on it for next year, we have a 3-4 year plan for what this blocking team is going to work on. Obviously there are still a lot of other things we need to get to, gap play, true gap play, a overhaul of our play action system is another one of those things. Everything we do from now on is a long term investment.

Q: Is route based throwing, throwing to a spot, rather than having the ball tethered to a wr, something that is being looked at?

Rex: You're going to see quite a bit more of that on gen 4. I think one of the key pieces to that with the ball always hitting the wr in stride, that's one thing we are looking at right now for next year. We feel there's potentially some big wins in that space if we actually model some kind of inaccuracy system to throws. What you will see in Madden 25 on gen 4 though, is route timing being thrown off by bumps or collisions between wr's or good press by a DB.

There it is. Rex's words not ours. Fans can't get frustrated or call us "haters" when the dev of the game you hold so dearly is saying these things and we want them to be held to it. We shouldn't be banned or warned for calling them out for not being truthful. This is what Tiburon wants. Like I said they're talking the talk, they need to walk with it.

[aholbert32]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Features All-New Controls to Dominate Air Supremacy

There it is. Rex's words not ours. Fans can't get frustrated or call us "haters" when the dev of the game you hold so dearly is saying these things and we want them to be held to it. We shouldn't be banned or warned for calling them out for not being truthful. This is what Tiburon wants. Like I said they're talking the talk, they need to walk with it.

Here is the problem: Everybody's definition of "authenticity and a realistic representation of the sport" isnt the same. Not even on OS.

There are plenty of people here that think Madden is "realistic". They look at the animations, the presentation elements, the sound and some of the franchise elements and consider it to be very realistic.

I am one of the people who liked Madden 15 alot and think its only a few features (WR/DB interaction, Penalties, Pre-play movement and out of game formation subs) from being considered realistic to me. I also think that compared to the game that was being produced by the last dev team, this game is much more realistic.

There are also plenty of people who even if they added all the things that I want wouldnt consider the game realistic and think that everything from the animation engine to graphics to game modes should be redone and made more realistic.

Now in 2 yrs, if there isnt "true gap play", you can question why the dev team didnt follow through on its promise. Same goes for the "overhaul of the play action system." But we arent going to allow devs to be bashed or "called out" just because a dev made a generic statement like "we want more realism" that can be interpreted several ways. Especially when "realism" is subjective.