Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

[bucky60]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

It would be a breath of fresh air to have someone who uses actual PLAYER DATA to determine player progression/regression in CFM.

I happen to disagree with using player stats to drive progression. It's unrealistic. I personally think it would be a breath of fresh air to use a realistic model of progression.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Yeah, Madden 05 had some of the worst progression I'd ever seen. I remember one season I had Gary Stills go up like 15 OVR in one postseason and basically go from a special teamer to pro bowler because he recovered a couple fumbles and returned one for a TD. IMO progression should be based on a combination of potential and coaching. There are certainly other factors but I think at its most basic form you could create a very good progression model based on those two elements.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

With progression In Madden, what observed changes in ability are you talking about that the scouts see? Stats? Stats should never drive progression for a realistic progression model. Allowing a scouting dept in madden to drive progression is unrealistic. Other factors should be determining progression/regression. Realistic factors. Scouts should ONLY be evaluating a players perceived abilities.

I think your progression system confuses re-rating with progression. When you are defining a roster for a Madden release, I agree with your method. But not for progressing players. It's unrealistic to use stats for progression. It's unrealistic to use scouting evals for progression.

No, not stats. I would create a progression model based on the amount of progression we see for players in the historical scouting data. I addressed this on post #185 in this thread. I am not a big fan of basic stats at all. I think we can debate HOW it should be implemented, and believe me I am all ears on that, but I think that the data can give a reasonable control for the level of progression we would see in the model. Find the average amount of progression we see in both the negative and positive directions, find your standard deviations, and make it fit in a bell curve. That could be a solution to make sure that things don't get out of hand within the model.

I would think that we would have to tie it something that the user does, however, instead of making it random. Win/Loss record? Coaching? Efficiency? I don't really know what, but I think we at least need to put some of it in the users hands.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I happen to disagree with using player stats to drive progression. It's unrealistic. I personally think it would be a breath of fresh air to use a realistic model of progression.

What is your idea of a "realistic model"? You posted something to this effect in two consecutive posts so I am wondering if you already have an idea outlined.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Yeah, Madden 05 had some of the worst progression I'd ever seen. I remember one season I had Gary Stills go up like 15 OVR in one postseason and basically go from a special teamer to pro bowler because he recovered a couple fumbles and returned one for a TD. IMO progression should be based on a combination of potential and coaching. There are certainly other factors but I think at its most basic form you could create a very good progression model based on those two elements.

I totally forgot about the potential grade to this. That may be a good idea considering that it is up to the user to find players with high potential. The higher the potential, the higher the likelihood that the player will positively progress. Throw confidence into that and you may have a nice combination there.

[King Cardinal]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Hey DCEEB, could the consistency rating determine progression (and regression) better than other systems used in the past?

[bucky60]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

What is your idea of a "realistic model"? You posted something to this effect in two consecutive posts so I am wondering if you already have an idea outlined.

Hide actual ratings
Have "scouts/GM's/Coaching staffs evaluation attributes" give perceived ratings of players, not actual ratings of players (ranges, letter grades, or something else that makes sense).
Have potential max values for each rating attribute
Setup a practice schedule, both team and individual drills (what things to emphasize) in OTA's, Training Camp, Preseason, Regular Season).
Have coaching staffs (including positional coaches) teaching ratings, practice schedule, players work ethic, mentors at same position, etc, etc, determine player progression.
Have injuries effect ratings and progression using NFL statistical analysis.
Have a peak start peak end to differentiate between late bloomers, early risers/with short careers, and high level long careers.

I would like to see hiring and firing coaching staffs, and scouting staffs have some realistic meaning. Hire coaches better in talent evaluation or better teaching?

I would like to see real potentials implemented. Where you can't just stat anyone you like to be a superstar.

Mike McCarthy says players make their biggest jump between year one and year two. I want to see the practice squad player with no playing time make that kind of jump McCarthy talks about, based on the above progression variables (and any other real world model progression variables make sense).

If a player has to play to produce stats and be scouted (or we have to stick skill) in order to make any significant improvement, to me, that's a poor progression system.

The philosophy of madden CFM design would have to change for this. If your progression system can or does incorporate something like this, I'm on board.

On a personal level, I hope the interview goes well for you, whether I like your system or not. If you get hired it would have to be very exciting for you.

Second, your system is going to be better for me personally than the current CFM.

[HC0023]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Good Luck to Donny and Good Luck to u today DCEEB

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Hey DCEEB, could the consistency rating determine progression (and regression) better than other systems used in the past?

I really do not know. I guess it could, but I would think it would have to be combined with potential. If your potential is A+ but your consistency is a D+, then you won't progress to that potential as quickly as you could if your consistency was an A+ as well.

Does potential x consistency = progress?

[mestevo]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Id prefer them be decoupled. Potential is ability that requires the coaching and opportunity to be realized, while consistency is the ability to perform and maintain that performance. Lower the consistency then the taller/deeper the peaks and valleys. Confidence mixes in to impact both perhaps?

Good luck today.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Id prefer them be decoupled. Potential is ability that requires the coaching and opportunity to be realized, while consistency is the ability to perform and maintain that performance. Lower the consistency then the taller/deeper the peaks and valleys. Confidence mixes in to impact both perhaps?

Opportunity.

That is key right there. How can you maximize your potential if you are stuck 5th on the depth chart and get limited reps in practices/training camps? This is a big reason why guys like Charles Johnson seem to get better. He was buried behind a good WR corps in Green Bay and by the time he was signed by MIN off of CLE's practice squad, he began a rise into the starting role at MIN.

So glad you mentioned that. If we have a nice practice structure, we can distribute reps and spread that opportunity or use it to advance a premier player.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Opportunity.

That is key right there. How can you maximize your potential if you are stuck 5th on the depth chart and get limited reps in practices/training camps? This is a big reason why guys like Charles Johnson seem to get better. He was buried behind a good WR corps in Green Bay and by the time he was signed by MIN off of CLE's practice squad, he began a rise into the starting role at MIN.

So glad you mentioned that. If we have a nice practice structure, we can distribute reps and spread that opportunity or use it to advance a premier player.

Hopefully you can convince them to add practice squads!

[Yukon46]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Hopefully you can convince them to add practice squads!

I hate that you have to use words like Hopefully and convince...

Practice Squads should just be in the game !

[Gman 18]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Hopefully you can convince them to add practice squads!

Considering the community has been requesting the addition of practice squads for YEARS in these forums and on other sports forums/social media, I don't see how just one guy is gonna suddenly convince them to implement them into the game


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[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

OK guys just got done with my discussion with Rex Dickson and a few other guys on a conference call.

First of all, Rex said he had no problem with me posting anything regarding these "early discussions" on this forum, so here we go.

One of the first things that is apparent is that they are very open to taking in new methodologies for rating players in the game. Ideas like crowd sourcing via the Madden community came up. It looks like they want to do away with having one guy do all of the ratings.

It seemed to be mostly a Q&A session as they are brainstorming ideas on how to do this in the future. It looks like they would be more interested in using me as a consultant for which to draw base ratings for. Those would then be tweaked to ensure that they don't break the game. The big thing that was apparent is that their priority is making a competitive game over having accurate ratings. It looks like they are willing to sacrifice some accuracy, derived by real world data, for competitive gameplay.

I told them I was very open consulting and being a part of the discussion to better match the gameplay to more accurate ratings. This would require me to work with the people who develop the on-field mechanics closely. Since these discussions were very early, but will likely have an effect on their Madden 17 cycle, it looks like I won't have any more information until late August at the earliest as they will be researching a multitude of paths to take.

Questions?