Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

[Sausage]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

The big thing that was apparent is that their priority is making a competitive game over having accurate ratings. It looks like they are

""willing to sacrifice some accuracy, derived by real world data, for competitive gameplay.""

Questions?

The sentence I quoted just tells me that it's still all about the same old Madden ball and not a true football sim. The new slogan "play Madden ball not pro football". Been around long enough this game is still and mainly tweaked for ranked / tournament players that can't imagine penalties, inaccurate passes, or football strategies beating Madden strategies.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

BTW - Before I forget, I do want to thank the many OSers who wished me luck via forum or PM before the interview today. I really do mean to do all of this for the betterment of the community and I appreciate all of you and your enlightening discussions around here - agree or disagree.

I want to add that if OS wants to do some sort of discussion (interview or Q&A style) so I can go a little more in depth about all of this, I would be open to that. I think there are some things that, honestly, can help make my involvement happen, including making a push by the community and getting the word out there. Even a petition would help at this point.

Believe it or not they didn't even know how my ratings worked in the game despite the fact that there have been youtube videos and forum topics about the related rosters.

Not sure if that would work, but it may help. Just throwing that out there. I will tell you the same thing I told a few other people around here; this whole thing is not about me or my ratings - it is about EA incorporating real data into the game, so long as it comes from a reputable source and the methodology is sound. In that way, we all win.

[King Cardinal]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I won't speak for Rex's desire to make a sim football game, but he did say that their number one priority is making the game competitive to play, with authenticity coming in after that top priority.

To me, I would make the ratings for each player as realistic as possible, then make the game fit those ratings. They are more concerned about the gameplay (making it competitive for anyone who picks up a controller) first, then the accuracy of their player ratings second.

I think Rex made the right choice by making the game competitive first because that's the charm of playing Madden. Sure adding realism is good, but taking away some of the control for the user loses some of Madden's character (not to mention the vast majority of Madden players like the competitiveness of the game). And while the news may be discouraging to some, let's not forget they finally made penalties a thing, made some major improvements gameplay wise and even making some major adjustments to speed to make it less broken (also eliminating many cheese plays). As long as Rex and the Madden team add some of the features that we have been wanting (and improving the experience) and whoever in charge of ratings is doing a good job of making them more realistic, then Madden's future is bright.

[kehlis]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

BTW - Before I forget, I do want to thank the many OSers who wished me luck via forum or PM before the interview today. I really do mean to do all of this for the betterment of the community and I appreciate all of you and your enlightening discussions around here - agree or disagree.

I want to add that if OS wants to do some sort of discussion (interview or Q&A style) so I can go a little more in depth about all of this, I would be open to that. I think there are some things that, honestly, can help make my involvement happen, including making a push by the community and getting the word out there. Even a petition would help at this point.

Believe it or not they didn't even know how my ratings worked in the game despite the fact that there have been youtube videos and forum topics about the related rosters.

Not sure if that would work, but it may help. Just throwing that out there. I will tell you the same thing I told a few other people around here; this whole thing is not about me or my ratings - it is about EA incorporating real data into the game, so long as it comes from a reputable source and the methodology is sound. In that way, we all win.

I think many would very much appreciate a Q&A thread but if I were you I would just triple check with EA to make sure they're cool with you discussing all the details of your chat.

I know they said they were okay with you talking about it in general but maybe cautious about you going into details.


I'm not suggestion they wouldn't be but just because of what's potentially at stake for you I would be overly cautious.

[charter04]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I can see EA's position...Why would I want to play as the Jaguars if I am going to lose regardless of skill, because the team is that bad?

I guess that's fine for online ranked games to an extent but, in CFM most like the challenge of rebuilding a bad team. If everyone is the same then what's the point?

Certain ratings do matter already in the game. I can tell a clear difference when I play someone with much worse team than me.

It seems strange that they want to make the ratings wider to make star players stand out more but, they don't want ratings to matter to much and override the skill of the player. It's kind of a contradiction.

That's why we just need a simulation mode. Arcade, Default, and simulation.

In sim mode the players would play purely based on ratings.

[redsox4evur]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I think many would very much appreciate a Q&A thread but if I were you I would just triple check with EA to make sure they're cool with you discussing all the details of your chat.

I know they said they were okay with you talking about it in general but maybe cautious about you going into details.


I'm not suggestion they wouldn't be but just because of what's potentially at stake for you I would be overly cautious.

Yea Dan you are better safe than sorry on this one. Just because they say they are cool with it doesn't mean they really are. It's like when applying to college or for a jo, they say they don't search for you on social media but they probably do it anyway.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I think Rex made the right choice by making the game competitive first because that's the charm of playing Madden. Sure adding realism is good, but taking away some of the control for the user loses some of Madden's character (not to mention the vast majority of Madden players like the competitiveness of the game). And while the news may be discouraging to some, let's not forget they finally made penalties a thing, made some major improvements gameplay wise and even making some major adjustments to speed to make it less broken (also eliminating many cheese plays). As long as Rex and the Madden team add some of the features that we have been wanting (and improving the experience) and whoever in charge of ratings is doing a good job of making them more realistic, then Madden's future is bright.

Thing is though they made it so penalties aren't an issue on competitive online modes. They could have did the same with ratings.
No reason we can't have both "All teams equal for online" and "Realistic ratings for CFM leagues/offline"

[charter04]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

My take on it is that the two are not incompatible. There is no inherent conflict in creating realistic gameplay while "compressing" or manipulating team ratings.

The more interesting bit was about increasing the spread of player ratings. That does seem to contradict the idea of competitive gameplay. I'm not sure how they could increase the gap while maintaining parity.


The fact that X amount of players were rated 90 in speed does not really matter. It is only about the scale.

If they take your advice and alter the scale there would be no changes in gameplay. That is, if they did it uniformly and without bias. They tend not to do that though, good players tend to become faster (or stronger, you get the idea) and underperformers drop speed.

The point is that we view 90+ as being great. Madden says 90+ is good/needed for positions.

What I would like to see, and Dan you may know the answer to this, is their ratings ordinal or interval? Is the difference in gameplay the same between 70-75 as it is between 90-95? Or does the difference increase exponentially?

I will say that giving players speed based on real data lowers the overall average speed of all players and it does change the way the game plays. It starts looking and feeling more like real football and less like an arcade twitch fest.

That is really what rep/eye test speed and acceleration ratings that Donny Moore has used does. When you have over 400 players running a 90 or higher in speed it's exactly what gives Madden that weird arcade look that makes some change the game speed to slow.

FBG ratings and what Yukon does is use data. It's amazing how much more fluid and natural the animations look with those type of ratings.

[charter04]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

The issue would be getting the better skilled players to use a lesser team...

I am actually a life long Packer fan; parents born and raised in Wisconsin; so Badgers and Packers all the way...I will not play the Packers, often, because they are a top team that many people want to use..and I just find it hard to play the Packers for some weird reason...I would hate to be forced to play them, because honestly, I am not that good at the twitch controllers, so I would need a better team like them to compete...I have a very hard time with All-MAdden play, and even gets tough on All-Pro for me..

Though I see All-MAdden as ALL-Arcade...

But, that's already the case so I don't see how making teams play according to ratings would matter. Even game I play in online ranked all use the same five teams. I am a die hard Cowboys fan and I always use them. In the past it's been tough to win but, I just wanted to use my team.

Most ranked players just want to win so they will always take the top 3 teams anyway.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I was told by one of the GC's that when Rex mentions competitive gameplay being the priority, he's referring to user vs CPU.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I was told by one of the GC's that when Rex mentions competitive gameplay being the priority, he's referring to user vs CPU.

Still bad.. lol IF I understand right.
I want a SP experience that is a real as I can get. If I field a bad team I want to get beat.. That's the whole fun of building a team etc...

Anyways I'll hold judgement until I play for myself.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

It confirms my beliefs about Madden.

Not saying this to knock the game or EA, but to me they are overly concerned with the user vs user reputation of Madden.

We can lament the game's present state as much as we want, but it is still the ultimate game to play another person. When someone says "get on the sticks" that means play me in Madden.

This is not a revelation; the scouting and confidence changes in CFM have the same reasoning behind it.

I'm not a fan of this focus, but it is a perfectly fine approach to take. My way (our way?) is no more valid than theirs.

That's all correct, which is why trying to cram everyone into the same size shoes will never work. Oh well. I don't expect them to hire Dan unfortunately and none of this should be surprising. Despite what they tell you every year the product shows otherwise. The product is all that matters and this is what they want to build. They have the right to build what they want, but if it's not what you're looking for then you are SOL. Hopefully they take the approach of other games that have a simulation setting in which ratings are realistically applied. Hope Dan gets the gig.

[charter04]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I was told by one of the GC's that when Rex mentions competitive gameplay being the priority, he's referring to user vs CPU.

So is that why All Madden mode just gives the CPU ratings boosts and they just play unrealistically good and have Robo QB?

Hopefully the plan is to make the CPU realistically competitive with good play calling and playing like the real teams instead of just Madden boosts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I was told by one of the GC's that when Rex mentions competitive gameplay being the priority, he's referring to user vs CPU.

Ok trying to have open mind about this..(only thinking user vs CPU) but why have different skill then? If they want ratings to be "balance" so it's competitive..then do away with skill level and sliders (tongue and cheek)... JP u seemed extremely shocked by this...this something different then what u been told? Or implied to u? Also Dan do they realize ur ratings don't break the game but in fact improve the play? I would hope they could see that by playing it themselves....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

That's all correct, which is why trying to cram everyone into the same size shoes will never work. Oh well. I don't expect them to hire Dan unfortunately and none of this should be surprising. Despite what they tell you every year the product shows otherwise. The product is all that matters and this is what they want to build. They have the right to build what they want, but if it's not what you're looking for then you are SOL. Hopefully they take the approach of other games that have a simulation setting in which ratings are realistically applied. Hope Dan gets the gig.

Right there with you. Before today I put the odds at 20%. Not sure how I feel now. Maybe a little less? The funny thing was the first thing Rex said was "I understand that you had conversations with us in 2011. Mind if I ask what happened then?" I told them that we had a difference in philosophy and I didn't want to attach my name to something that compromised my methodology and hard work. I also told them that I felt all they were trying to do was pump me for information on how I do stuff...some of it I couldn't answer because of the NDA or intellectual property.

I think that this conversation today was more constructive. Rex told me that he was impressed with my knowledge. That is a start. However, this is all talk at this point and it is important to reiterate that this was only the beginning of the dialogue. Asking me what role I see playing in all of this says something too. Some mixed messages, but at least they are opening a dialogue and seeking out people (who at least claim to be) in the know.

Another thing that is concerning (and I know it may piss some people off here) is that they may go to community based ratings. Just what we need, another popularity contest. They may as well put every player on every team at 99 in everything because that is what it will get to eventually. The biggest resistance my system will face is from casual gamers who are shocked an appalled at seeing starters in the 60s regularly. Some will write those ratings off immediately. Then, throw in the heat from the players themselves and we have a giant s--t storm in the making. As good the dialogue so far is, those are the things that make me think that having real grades and real ratings based on data will ever work for this franchise. Everyone is too used to having 90+ for every player in everything. It's quite sad that the real NFL isn't anything like that. Why else do you think that the average player is out in 2-3 years? The average player is not anywhere near elite.

To me, it's a start. If they bring me in, great! If not, I just hope they go to something based on data and don't open it up to idiots to vote on. You can kiss any semblance of sim goodbye if they do that.

Just my honest opinion.