Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 6 Quarterbacks

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

First! Just kidding.

Is Big Ben really that high???????

Big Ben had elite like numbers last season and has been criminally underrated IRL.

Guy is money.

[msdm27]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 6 Quarterbacks

Here is the issue:

The attribute grades are not affected by the injury/suspension modifier. Waht is affected is the OVR grade only. However, since EA works with this darn OVR in their game, I have to have it. When a player's OVR changes during the course of the season, I don't have access to the data that tells me WHY it is changing, just that it IS changing (either + or -). The large data dump I get every offseason is the only time I get everything (because the attributes don't really change in value a ton, just the production or injury modifiers).

The result is that I have to stick to the OVR score to show that players are either getting better or getting worse, knowing full well that it is more than likely that the attributes are not immediately changing, but instead their production values are changing (incrementally during the season).

What you will typically see, is that once players get back to playing (and not in the offseason like now), the injury modifiers will go away or will be greatly diminished.

All of this leaves us with 2 options:

1. You include the production and injury modifiers in real time to reflect accurate changes in a player's ability and adhere to the OVR.

2. You don't include the modifiers and rate players only based upon their attributes and disregard the OVR.


I tried number 2 in the past and people complained...LOUDLY because the formulas for how the scouts determine a good player are so different from how EA does it.

If I rated Wes Welker by just his attributes, his grade is 5.83 according to the scouting formula. But if I rate him just by his attributes and throw him into Madden, his OVR would like 56 instead of 76. Why? The formulas in EA's system are so different from that of the scouting data. The attributes are weighted differently.

What I would really need to do, is make the scouting formulas be equal to those in Madden, and I would have to be on the team to have a snowball's chance at that. Until then, the compromise is that I attempt to meet the scouting OVR grade by minimally manipulating some of the attribute grades in Madden to reach the desired overall (we are talking about a couple of points one way or the other).


As you can see, the situation is far from simple to explain and fix.

Very thorough explanation I reckon a progressive injury system would be almost a MUST add-on to your ratings if they were to be implemented? That would add a realistic dynamic to CFM and would likely make it easier for gamers to understand how overall ratings break down.

In the end, I find it really hard to believe EA would ever go with a system that grades Flacco that high among QB's; this is not to discuss whether that's fair or not, but The reality is that Madden is a video game and will probably never achieve the level of realism/team chemistry required for the game to be ruled by real scout attribute/tendencies grades... This is why they have to use production (stats) as a sort of modifier to rule overall grades and then manipulate the individual attributes based on said overall.

I actually understand that problematic.

My solution would be to make production an attribute (a calculation that modifies OVR) instead of a trait so that it's easier for EA to manipulate the overall according to what's the more general audience (regular fans) and to some extent media and most analyst who actually agree in most cases about who the top players per position are without ever going into detail as to why.

What's your take on that method, Dan?

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 6 Quarterbacks

So glad Wilson didn't make the cut. Has to be the most overrated QB in the game.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 6 Quarterbacks

Never used the FBG ratings, but Dan is winning me over in these threads.

It's unfortunate that they won't do me any good in CFM though. Would be nice if Madden had customizable draft classes like other titles do.

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

Big Ben had elite like numbers last season and has been criminally underrated IRL.

Guy is money.

Yeah the guy is a flat out stud. I don't know he's still so underrated. He and Romo have always gotten way too much heat.

[msdm27]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

Yeah the guy is a flat out stud. I don't know he's still so underrated. He and Romo have always gotten way too much heat.

Big Ben is a B.E.A.S.T! But his perceived improvement into an elite level QB only shows how football is a team game in all aspects... I'd venture to say Ben's success through the air the last couple of years is highly correlated to the improvement (both in play and health) of their OL + the rise of Antonio Brown

[briz1046]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 6 Quarterbacks

Here is the issue:

The attribute grades are not affected by the injury/suspension modifier. Waht is affected is the OVR grade only. However, since EA works with this darn OVR in their game, I have to have it. When a player's OVR changes during the course of the season, I don't have access to the data that tells me WHY it is changing, just that it IS changing (either + or -). The large data dump I get every offseason is the only time I get everything (because the attributes don't really change in value a ton, just the production or injury modifiers).

The result is that I have to stick to the OVR score to show that players are either getting better or getting worse, knowing full well that it is more than likely that the attributes are not immediately changing, but instead their production values are changing (incrementally during the season).

What you will typically see, is that once players get back to playing (and not in the offseason like now), the injury modifiers will go away or will be greatly diminished.

All of this leaves us with 2 options:

1. You include the production and injury modifiers in real time to reflect accurate changes in a player's ability and adhere to the OVR.

2. You don't include the modifiers and rate players only based upon their attributes and disregard the OVR.


I tried number 2 in the past and people complained...LOUDLY because the formulas for how the scouts determine a good player are so different from how EA does it.

If I rated Wes Welker by just his attributes, his grade is 5.83 according to the scouting formula. But if I rate him just by his attributes and throw him into Madden, his OVR would like 56 instead of 76. Why? The formulas in EA's system are so different from that of the scouting data. The attributes are weighted differently.

What I would really need to do, is make the scouting formulas be equal to those in Madden, and I would have to be on the team to have a snowball's chance at that. Until then, the compromise is that I attempt to meet the scouting OVR grade by minimally manipulating some of the attribute grades in Madden to reach the desired overall (we are talking about a couple of points one way or the other).


As you can see, the situation is far from simple to explain and fix.

Thank you for your comprehensive reply
As a solely CFM user I can't use your ratings in their pure form but do use them as a reference point when re - rating and adding UDFAS etc for the roster I use to start my CFM, it's very much a compromise but one I can live with
Maybe one day in the future we can get more accurate , complete and/or spread out rosters by default that carry over into career modes and I can have a month of my life back every year

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 6 Quarterbacks

Very thorough explanation I reckon a progressive injury system would be almost a MUST add-on to your ratings if they were to be implemented? That would add a realistic dynamic to CFM and would likely make it easier for gamers to understand how overall ratings break down.

In the end, I find it really hard to believe EA would ever go with a system that grades Flacco that high among QB's; this is not to discuss whether that's fair or not, but The reality is that Madden is a video game and will probably never achieve the level of realism/team chemistry required for the game to be ruled by real scout attribute/tendencies grades... This is why they have to use production (stats) as a sort of modifier to rule overall grades and then manipulate the individual attributes based on said overall.

I actually understand that problematic.

My solution would be to make production an attribute (a calculation that modifies OVR) instead of a trait so that it's easier for EA to manipulate the overall according to what's the more general audience (regular fans) and to some extent media and most analyst who actually agree in most cases about who the top players per position are without ever going into detail as to why.

What's your take on that method, Dan?

The way I see it, if production and injuries affect the OVR score as separate attributes for scouts, why wouldn't it be a part of Madden? Or, why NOT have it a part of Madden. Seems to make sense to me. The people can see why a guy like Romo, IN THE OFFSEAON, is only a 73 OVR (still very good). They can look at his injury modifier (as part of the OVR grade) and make a decision to play him (risking further injury) or sit him until he gets healthy. Obviously teams take that chance in real life and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Last year, it worked for Romo, and his OVR went up. Once the season ended, it went down.

That seems to be a dynamic answer to this problem. Give the users all the data they want and let them take the risks in their own CFM.

[bloobloouk]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

Big Ben is a B.E.A.S.T! But his perceived improvement into an elite level QB only shows how football is a team game in all aspects... I'd venture to say Ben's success through the air the last couple of years is highly correlated to the improvement (both in play and health) of their OL + the rise of Antonio Brown

This is the inherent problem whenever you try to grade anyone in a team sport, regardless of the system used. If you take Aaron Rodgers, put him behind an o-line comprised of toddlers and ask him to throw to a partially sighted receiving corps he'd look absolutely awful. He's still an incredibly talented QB but you never get to see it because he's either sacked immediately or you see the ball bounce off a WRs head the odd time he manages to scramble away.

I have a great deal of respect for the work that scouts do, but ultimately assessing players is an art not a science. If you could always perfectly project a player by following a strict fomula then we wouldn't have draft busts, and Brady and Romo would have been 1st round picks.

EAs system is far from perfect and I'd prefer to use some variant of the FBG ratings, but to say we can ever achieve perfection is to delude ourselves.

EDIT: Oh, and no one can pretend that everyone would see through the hypothetical Rodgers scenario above and would still praise him as a player. Lambeau would be full of people baying for blood!

[KingV2k3]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

Why's it awful? Cause you're used to Maddens over inflation of ratings? Whats the point of having a 0-100 scale if you only use 80-100?

A few years back, the franchise logic was altered to make any player below 75 OVR "disposable" to the CPU controlled AI...

Until they rewrite that logic, the range for ratings won't be able to be stretched out without consequence...

I would love to see EA implement Dan's ratings system, but they'd have to redesign how those ratings affect the engine, both on and off the field...

Too many "fixes" in the past led to breaking other things, so it's important to not just incorporate a new system, but to integrate it properly as well...

[The Kid 24]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 6 Quarterbacks

Never used the FBG ratings, but Dan is winning me over in these threads.

It's unfortunate that they won't do me any good in CFM though. Would be nice if Madden had customizable draft classes like other titles do.

Curious what you mean by this?

[bloobloouk]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

A few years back, the franchise logic was altered to make any player below 75 OVR "disposable" to the CPU controlled AI...

Until they rewrite that logic, the range for ratings won't be able to be stretched out without consequence...

I would love to see EA implement Dan's ratings system, but they'd have to redesign how those ratings affect the engine, both on and off the field...

Too many "fixes" in the past led to breaking other things, so it's important to not just incorporate a new system, but to integrate it properly as well...

This is one of the prime reasons why we need a better way of evaluating potential in players. You'd never see a low 70s rookie with huge growth potential being released in favour of a 78 rated 35 year old with a big cap hit.

[bloobloouk]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 6 Quarterbacks

Curious what you mean by this?

The draft class generator is geared to the default ratings. Therefore you end up with superhuman rookies flooding the league after just one season if you use the FBG ratings.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 6 Quarterbacks

Curious what you mean by this?

Once you finish a season and the EA generated rookies come in, they won't fit in with these ratings/the more spread out ratings would result in free agents signing too cheap.

Edit: ^^^^ beat me to it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Kid 24]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 6 Quarterbacks

The draft class generator is geared to the default ratings. Therefore you end up with superhuman rookies flooding the league after just one season if you use the FBG ratings.

Once you finish a season and the EA generated rookies come in, they won't fit in with these ratings/the more spread out ratings would result in free agents signing too cheap.

Edit: ^^^^ beat me to it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah... Makes sense now.