In-Game Progression Bug Tied To Drive Goals (Will Be Patched, Says Developer)

[NDAlum]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Tied To Drive Goals (Will Be Patched, Says Developer)

I'm guessing there's no word on a day one patch for this or the draft class balancing? Regretting taking off days this week to start my CFM.

Between 2-41 days is all we have


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[RunRunPass]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Tied To Drive Goals (Will Be Patched, Says Developer)

Well, it's launch day in the USA whereas in Europe we have to wait until Friday for the game to come out.

I run an online league in Europe (or CCM, call it what you will) and have done since Madden 10. We normally wait to start up our first season until the revised roster update comes out but now I don't know whether to go ahead with our planned start date or hold fire until the patch comes out.

What I find incredible about all this is that EA were well aware of people's dissatisfaction with confidence issues in Madden 15 and claimed they had fixed it for Madden 16. As this was one of the key issues that needed fixing, it is incredible that they have screwed it up and yet waste time on pointless gimmicks like "in-drive goals". I can just imagine Belichick saying to Brady: "Now Tom, I want you to complete 3 passes in a row on this next drive. Do it and you'll feel a whole lot better about yourself and play better for the rest of the game." I recall seeing an interview where one of the EA guys said that the big confidence spikes after one game would be gone and it would take several games for it to take effect. Instead, seems it happens during the game.

That aside, the problem with having features like this in CCM mode is that it encourages "non-sim" play. Instead of running a balanced offense, players will endeavour to complete drive goals in pursuit of XP (something I also detest - I preferred progression).

I've been concerned for some time that EA will ditch online franchise mode eventually. It happened in NHL and as others have pointed out, MUT is their cash cow and they will pour their resources into this.

Would be helpful if EA could give us a target date for the patch. They've said less than 6 weeks but that could be 5 weeks 6 days or less than a week. If anyone has any more concrete information then I'd appreciate it being posted up here.

[dtg2k15]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Tied To Drive Goals (Will Be Patched, Says Developer)

Does the bug make CFM unplayable?

[JayInSaratoga]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Gives Major Ratings Boosts (Will Be Patched, Says Develop

Wow! Where is the QA honestly? Does the bug happen in every game during the CFM or is it random? If it is in every game, how can you miss this?


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As someone who works in software and specifically focuses on QA and automated testing, I'd like to chime in with some insights into how large software projects are tested, as I see comments like this from time to time about video games.

From a testing perspective, I would measure the size based on requirements that must be asserted to hold true to pass testing. A software system like Madden likely has 100s of thousands of requirements that need to be tested once you account for the many permutations of settings, sliders and game modes that have to be certified. Once you change a line of code in one module, you have to recertify the correctness of that module and all modules that interact with it.

The retesting of previously certified software when changes is occur is called "Regression Testing", the name implies that you are testing to detect regression in behavior. Regression tests can come one of 2 ways: manual test cases that have to be carried out by a human tester or automated test cases in which computer programs operate the software under test and assert on the outputs of the software. There is a large upfront cost to writing automated tests, but they pay for themselves over time in the reduced manual workload required for future code changes. Also, automated tests are only as good as the assertions you thought to implement when you wrote them. Since they run in an automated fashion, there is a human there to see additional things that look wrong to the eye. Most software projects have a mix of automated and manual regression tests. If the body of tests cases is large, it is likely that you don't run every manual test for every change. You manage risk by covering percentage of tests and rotating them between code changes.

So, to the question of "Where was QA?". It is very possible they were doing their job and doing it very well by industry standards and this bug got through, while many others were caught and fixed. How can we know if they did a good job, when bugs still get through? If the software is of generally high quality that the Devs can turn around bug fixes quickly, then we will know the codebase was in good health pre-patch and only a few specific cases needed to be addressed.

No matter how much testing happens in the QA phase of this release cycle it pales in comparison to the amount of usage (effectively testing) that occurs in just the first few days of general availability to the public.

[n7leadfarmer]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Tied To Drive Goals (Will Be Patched, Says Developer)

Does the bug make CFM unplayable?

Depends on how you feel about it I guess. This is a deal breaker to me, and will not be opening my copy until its fixed or I'm forced to activate my return policy to get my money back

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[dtg2k15]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Tied To Drive Goals (Will Be Patched, Says Developer)

Depends on how you feel about it I guess. This is a deal breaker to me, and will not be opening my copy until its fixed or I'm forced to activate my return policy to get my money back

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

I'm big on realistic simulation. Looks like I'll see how the patch is handled before I purchase.

Did the team funds issue get fixed for 16?

[n7leadfarmer]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Gives Major Ratings Boosts (Will Be Patched, Says Develop

As someone who works in software and specifically focuses on QA and automated testing, I'd like to chime in with some insights into how large software projects are tested, as I see comments like this from time to time about video games.

From a testing perspective, I would measure the size based on requirements that must be asserted to hold true to pass testing. A software system like Madden likely has 100s of thousands of requirements that need to be tested once you account for the many permutations of settings, sliders and game modes that have to be certified. Once you change a line of code in one module, you have to recertify the correctness of that module and all modules that interact with it.

The retesting of previously certified software when changes is occur is called "Regression Testing", the name implies that you are testing to detect regression in behavior. Regression tests can come one of 2 ways: manual test cases that have to be carried out by a human tester or automated test cases in which computer programs operate the software under test and assert on the outputs of the software. There is a large upfront cost to writing automated tests, but they pay for themselves over time in the reduced manual workload required for future code changes. Also, automated tests are only as good as the assertions you thought to implement when you wrote them. Since they run in an automated fashion, there is a human there to see additional things that look wrong to the eye. Most software projects have a mix of automated and manual regression tests. If the body of tests cases is large, it is likely that you don't run every manual test for every change. You manage risk by covering percentage of tests and rotating them between code changes.

So, to the question of "Where was QA?". It is very possible they were doing their job and doing it very well by industry standards and this bug got through, while many others were caught and fixed. How can we know if they did a good job, when bugs still get through? If the software is of generally high quality that the Devs can turn around bug fixes quickly, then we will know the codebase was in good health pre-patch and only a few specific cases needed to be addressed.

No matter how much testing happens in the QA phase of this release cycle it pales in comparison to the amount of usage (effectively testing) that occurs in just the first few days of general availability to the public.

All of your points are definitely valued and deeply appreciated, and should help to curtail some perceptions of how this bug made it though testing, but I do have one question, and I know you can only speculate as you are not part of the dev team:

Assuming default sliders and setup, this bug is happening basically across the board (I haven't heard anything to indicate its less than 100%), so wouldn't it seem a little odd that such an experience altering problem make it through the testing process? To me, if any developer ran through a few games on cfm (I would do this anyway just to play with the new features and possibly find other bugs... And reported it as hours worked to get paid for playing madden) this would show up. It could just be that all long term cfm bugs are given regression testing with a program as you suggested but again that implies that no one actually launched their own cfm by hand and used the product they were creating, even if only to screw around a little bit. Could it be that with the rise of IAP and the success of mut that cfm now gets that little attention?

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[n7leadfarmer]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Tied To Drive Goals (Will Be Patched, Says Developer)

I'm big on realistic simulation. Looks like I'll see how the patch is handled before I purchase.

Did the team funds issue get fixed for 16?

I agree, but I took advantage of the best buy trade in bonus ($30 off new copy) and after stacking that with my gamers club unlocked discount ($12) and a cert I had from buying batman, I'm getting the game for $8. Could really pass it up. However, this is a deal breaker and I will sadly not open the game until I know its fixed.

Couldn't tell you about the funds bug I only ever played as a coach

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[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Gives Major Ratings Boosts (Will Be Patched, Says Develop

No matter how much testing happens in the QA phase of this release cycle it pales in comparison to the amount of usage (effectively testing) that occurs in just the first few days of general availability to the public.

Oh, I'm sure thre may have already been as many man-hours banging on this game by users as there were by testers. I'm thinking Madden may need more of an open beta model, like many online shooters have gone to.

[Kilendil]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Tied To Drive Goals (Will Be Patched, Says Developer)

Don't wanna come out and say this bug isn't real cause it is but I just got done with a fantastically exciting game on all madden with adjusted sliders where I had a couple players just over 100 on a few ratings and had a 32-26 overtime game. If the game is hard enough that you don't achieve every drive goal every game you can play through this imho. At least until it's patched which hopefully happen asap.

[Smallville102001]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Tied To Drive Goals (Will Be Patched, Says Developer)

I have not liked a madden game in a long time but last year was close. This year with CPU QB sacks being fixed and with the way the DB play the ball and there being flags I was thinking about maybe taking a chances on the game. But now with these bugs in CFM I am thinking I may just skip this year or want to see if ever thing really gets fixed first and maybe by then the game will cost less. Do we know if the money Issue is fixed in owner mode? That was a big issue last year and I have yet to hear any one say if it is fixed or not.

[fancyclaps]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Gives Major Ratings Boosts (Will Be Patched, Says Develop

As someone who works in software and specifically focuses on QA and automated testing, I'd like to chime in with some insights into how large software projects are tested, as I see comments like this from time to time about video games.

From a testing perspective, I would measure the size based on requirements that must be asserted to hold true to pass testing. A software system like Madden likely has 100s of thousands of requirements that need to be tested once you account for the many permutations of settings, sliders and game modes that have to be certified. Once you change a line of code in one module, you have to recertify the correctness of that module and all modules that interact with it.

The retesting of previously certified software when changes is occur is called "Regression Testing", the name implies that you are testing to detect regression in behavior. Regression tests can come one of 2 ways: manual test cases that have to be carried out by a human tester or automated test cases in which computer programs operate the software under test and assert on the outputs of the software. There is a large upfront cost to writing automated tests, but they pay for themselves over time in the reduced manual workload required for future code changes. Also, automated tests are only as good as the assertions you thought to implement when you wrote them. Since they run in an automated fashion, there is a human there to see additional things that look wrong to the eye. Most software projects have a mix of automated and manual regression tests. If the body of tests cases is large, it is likely that you don't run every manual test for every change. You manage risk by covering percentage of tests and rotating them between code changes.

So, to the question of "Where was QA?". It is very possible they were doing their job and doing it very well by industry standards and this bug got through, while many others were caught and fixed. How can we know if they did a good job, when bugs still get through? If the software is of generally high quality that the Devs can turn around bug fixes quickly, then we will know the codebase was in good health pre-patch and only a few specific cases needed to be addressed.

No matter how much testing happens in the QA phase of this release cycle it pales in comparison to the amount of usage (effectively testing) that occurs in just the first few days of general availability to the public.

I can appreciate this, but it's still frustrating on 2 accounts:


1) The best MLB, NBA, NHL, and soccer sports games don't seem to be plagued with these or similar problems.
2) These types of issues seem to occur every year in Madden


Why not open up a beta testing the first week of July, and be proactive about solving these issues? I found a lot of CFM progression/regression bugs in about 90 minutes. Others found issues with the generated rookies months ago. Fair or unfair the perception is they don't care about CFM.

[yankees028]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Gives Major Ratings Boosts (Will Be Patched, Says Develop

I dont see how you can base "they do not care" when it is a whole new dev team. Can you imagine the crap pile that got put on there desk. O wait we can we have been dealing with it for almost 10 years lol O wait and you have a year to fix this and come out with m16 lol

I think people need to look at the for once positive in this game and realize people like Kobe come from games that are known for there franchise. I'm sorry about if you think a dev at his level would switch to EA to just sit on his hands and get blasted on twitter like so many other devs have. Your wrong this year they have been more responsive then I have ever seen from Madden.

I havent been this active on a madden forum in a very very long time and that is based off me just only playing nba 2k and mlb the show. Because I'm a die hard franchise junkie in which madden as failed at. But unless you have played and I mean really played MLB the show there is a light at the end of the tunnel if Kobe stays with EA

[bucky60]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Gives Major Ratings Boosts (Will Be Patched, Says Develop

I dont see how you can base "they do not care" when it is a whole new dev team. Can you imagine the crap pile that got put on there desk.

I'm pretty sure the current and previous developers care about the work they put into Madden. I'm just not sure that "the company" cares as much about franchise as they do about MUT and the other money making modes. EA is a business. But we will see in the next year or so. Maybe EA/Tib will be putting much more into CFM.

As to the bold. As a consumer, that's not an acceptable excuse. Our customers, as we supply our ERP packages that companies rely on to run there business, don't give us mulligans over the code we inherited from previous programmers/developers. We would get complaints and lose customers.

[milldaddy35]

Re: In-Game Progression Bug Tied To Drive Goals (Will Be Patched, Says Developer)

When does the first patch usually come out?