An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

[ballinoutactrl]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

I think I remember reading that it's triggered by winning season awards like rookie of the year.

This thread appears to be the best place for this Q.

Whats the likelihood of players jumping up or down a Development trait? i.e. the Dynamic player trait system.

The original blog post suggests its entirely related to awards for progression, and not achieving your season goals for regression (dropping down one).

Does anyone know specifically how its influenced?

I ran a few tests trying to force the changes and it appears its not common, even in cases where you'd expect it (e.g. a rookie of the year).

When I did see it go from Normal to Quick, I had to actively look for it, there was no notification (unless I missed it somewhere)

Test I ran:

I started with Cowboys and changed the depth chart, made some roster cuts so that my team was starting their rookies:

1. Dak Prescott at QB (Average)
2. Malik Collins at DT (Average)
3. Jaylon Smith at MLB (Quick)

I did this a few times to try and force some awards. Simming 2 seasons each time.

Dak Prescott threw 34 TDs, and won Offensive rookie of the year - the only 'breakout' season I produced for a rookie while simming. His 'Very Hard' goal is 24 TDs.

He did not go up a trait to 'Quick'.

Interestingly, I randomly noticed that Lucky Whitehead went from Normal to Quick - and looking at his stats and awards, it was entirely due to his Punt Return. He led the league in Punt Returning. He had maybe 11 receptions all season.

Ezikiel Elliott had two horrible seasons. he rushed for 700 and 650 yards in Season 1 and 2. Won no awards and just hit its 'easy' Goals. But he remained at superstar.

So from this, its not entirely guaranteed that a breakout season equals a jump. (Prescott) and its not guaranteed that a poor season = a regression (Zeke).

It just increases the chance?

Its kind of disappointing that Dak Prescott didn't go up after a monster rookie season. But Lucky Whitehead did after a terrible season except for punt returning.

Yea i jsut finished a season with the titans and have been saving my xp in hopes that derrik henery development would change on his own but i just won the ROY had 1250 yards 10tds and he didnt go up do you need to wait till the offseason or does it change mid season too? i dont want to spend to upgrade his development if its about to change on its own

[Sanchez_Mareno]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

26 is too young a cut off. Id say 28 or at least 27

[jmik58]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

Yea i jsut finished a season with the titans and have been saving my xp in hopes that derrik henery development would change on his own but i just won the ROY had 1250 yards 10tds and he didnt go up do you need to wait till the offseason or does it change mid season too? i dont want to spend to upgrade his development if its about to change on its own

If it's going to go up, it happens the week that the awards are finalized -- the same time that pro bowl teams are announced.

[Fist Of Kings]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

I'm not sure if this is the best way to handle development, but I understand why they did it this way. In madden 15, I had 90+ ovr players all over the field.

I have my xp slider higher for defensive players though, since it's harder to have dominant games to earn xp.

[rich8682]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

26 is too young a cut off. Id say 28 or at least 27

This is football. Most guys who aren't QB, OL, K/P don't play past 31 or so.

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[Tatupu_64]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

26 seems pretty young for players to be hitting the "wall" on their development.

Most QB's don't really hit their prime until their late 20's and early 30's. Offensive lineman are another group that peak later in their careers.

Thankfully you can adjust XP sliders, tdawg has a good set that helps counter what the dev team has implemented. Otherwise it'd take an entire season to improve your right guard by one point to run blocking.

I like the idea, but the "wall" age should've been 29 in my opinion.

I think you're on to something with your mention of positions. The wall should be different by position

QB/K/P - 30
RB/WR/TE/DE/LB/CB/S - 26
OL/FB/DT - 28

They also need to lower the average age of draft prospects by at least a year on average

[adembroski]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

John White did his homework. Outside of a few differences, these are almost the cost increases I came up with, though it wasn't implimented at the time.

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[adembroski]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

26 seems pretty young for players to be hitting the "wall" on their development.

Most QB's don't really hit their prime until their late 20's and early 30's. Offensive lineman are another group that peak later in their careers.

Thankfully you can adjust XP sliders, tdawg has a good set that helps counter what the dev team has implemented. Otherwise it'd take an entire season to improve your right guard by one point to run blocking.

I like the idea, but the "wall" age should've been 29 in my opinion.

Tons of studies, coach observations, and scientific reseach has shown 26 is precisely when athletes hit a wall. The mid 20s to early 30s are effectively flat for most players. They don't fall off a cliff, but the don't get appreciable better.

On average, most NFL players have their greatest production in year 3-4... one year later for QBs, one year sooner for RBs.

What was really shocking was how consistent it was. Outliers were extremely rare and tended to have reasonable explanations to exclude them. Rich Gannon and Jeff Garcia were notable outliers.

I did a ton of research on this when I was tuning progression for Madden 12. I did the same for Madden 13 but it wasn't used. I looked at stats going back 30 years, was provided proprietary study data from an NFL team's head coach, and looked into several university studies on the subject. I think White looked at some of the same data I did because what he put in looks a lot like what I was recommending 4 years ago.

From a biological perspective, 26 is the point at which an elite athlete will no longer be able to offset the body's degredation. They'll begin losing strength and agility somewhere around a 1% every 2 years clip until their mid 30s, when that begins to accelerate, and that's without accounting for physical punishment.

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[Hooe]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

Even without the real-world data backing it up - which it appears there is plenty, to be clear - I like that the Madden 17 progression / regression career arc for a player is reasonably predictable as a video game mechanic. It makes the act of long-term team-building, especially the draft, meaningful and consequential; you know your current players will not improve for the entirety of their careers, and you know the game is going to apply consistent downward pressure on your older experienced players to encourage you to replace them with younger and less experienced ones.

To offer a constructive criticism, I think that player progression / regression career arcs are now probably too formulaic, especially for quarterbacks, and at other positions there is little to no wiggle room for outliers like, say, a Steve Smith Sr. That said, compared to progression / regression in any other Madden football game I've played - which was either too dependent on accumulating counting stats (M13 - M16) or completely opaque to the user as to how to influence (M12 and earlier) - I think what now exists is a good base to build upon going forward.

[BleedGreen710]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

Even without the real-world data backing it up - which it appears there is plenty, to be clear - I like that the Madden 17 progression / regression career arc for a player is reasonably predictable as a video game mechanic. It makes the act of long-term team-building, especially the draft, meaningful and consequential; you know your current players will not improve for the entirety of their careers, and you know the game is going to apply consistent downward pressure on your older experienced players to encourage you to replace them with younger and less experienced ones.

To offer a constructive criticism, I think that player progression / regression career arcs are now probably too formulaic, especially for quarterbacks, and at other positions there is little to no wiggle room for outliers like, say, a Steve Smith Sr. That said, compared to progression / regression in any other Madden football game I've played - which was either too dependent on accumulating counting stats (M13 - M16) or completely opaque to the user as to how to influence (M12 and earlier) - I think what now exists is a good base to build upon going forward.

I agree completely. At first I hated it but I've come to like it. I think all thats missing at this point is a new rating for each player that serves as a modifier for regression. Kind of like development but for regression not progression. Someone with the highest version of the trait would be able to play longer, retire later, and not lose very many attributes whereas someone with the low trait would hit their wall about where they do in the game currently. You could even have the trait hidden until the player turns 26, so you wouldn't know right at the beginning of the players career.

I think the hardest part of implementing this though might be assigning the current players a regression trait rating, since there's really no way to know how long players careers may last. How do you decide how fast a rookie such as Carson Wentz or Dak Prescott should begin to regress? Perhaps they could give all young players normal regression trait and just have the generated players from the drafts be more varied. Either way, I think it could be an awesome addition to the game and it's one of the things I want most in M17.

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[Old Man Nathy]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

I agree completely. At first I hated it but I've come to like it. I think all thats missing at this point is a new rating for each player that serves as a modifier for regression. Kind of like development but for regression not progression. Someone with the highest version of the trait would be able to play longer, retire later, and not lose very many attributes whereas someone with the low trait would hit their wall about where they do in the game currently. You could even have the trait hidden until the player turns 26, so you wouldn't know right at the beginning of the players career.

I think the hardest part of implementing this though might be assigning the current players a regression trait rating, since there's really no way to know how long players careers may last. How do you decide how fast a rookie such as Carson Wentz or Dak Prescott should begin to regress? Perhaps they could give all young players normal regression trait and just have the generated players from the drafts be more varied. Either way, I think it could be an awesome addition to the game and it's one of the things I want most in M17.

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Yeah I agree. A similar trait to Dyna Dev for regression would make it perfect IMO. If guys continue playing at an all pro level into their 30s, they shouldn't be regressing much. But once they have a down season or a serious injury, their regression trait should be downgraded and they end up going down in ratings pretty quickly. This would mean you get your Favre's, Brady's and Steve Smith's who play well despite their advancing years, but also get guys like Matt Schaub or Donovan McNabb who suddenly just "lose it" and end up regressing sharply despite previously being good players. Would also mean guys who start their careers at a high level but flame out early (like Shawn Merriman or Percy Harvin) can progress very high but then quickly drop off in their late 20s if they pick up knocks or don't retain their pro bowl level play.


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[Ruben2424]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

"If you want to maximize your training and XP spending, the new development tool should only be used for your players 25 and under, ideally the ones with Quick or Star Dev."

Pretty much all I needed to know. Thanks for posting!

[L3W1_UK]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

So, just done the draft. managed to get a QB & WR both with Superstar dev trait.

What is the best way to develop them, they are both my focus players for training but in terms of playing time?

I'm playing as the bears so want this new QB to replace Cutler, but the rookie is only a 74,

Shall i just chuck him in considering his dev trait ?

[Dcourtne]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

So, just done the draft. managed to get a QB & WR both with Superstar dev trait.



What is the best way to develop them, they are both my focus players for training but in terms of playing time?



I'm playing as the bears so want this new QB to replace Cutler, but the rookie is only a 74,



Shall i just chuck him in considering his dev trait ?

Look at the game and season goals for each and make sure to hit those. For the WR , make he gets 5 catches per game. For rookie QBs, consider pairing with a vet and have each of them play half of every game. Depending on how the rookie develops, you might trade the vet at week 8.

[Ueauvan]

Re: An In-Depth Look at Player Development and How It Works in M17

i think backup qb is 20 TDs, frankly whilst you build up tas and awr you might as well play him, cutler sucks but dont forget throw away and other traits important so they dont get killed