Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

[Rhudey]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

Day 1 release with no patchesbthe outside run game was way overpowered.

I don't think accuracy is the issue honestly. Its the CPUs reliance on short passes. In my experience the cpu throws the safe easy pass most of the time. They rarely go deep except in hail Mary situations. A normal stat line when I play is about 20 for 30 for about 150 yards. Those incompletions are a result of numerous throw aways and dropped passes. Very rarely will I have a qb throw more than 200 yards. That's just my experience though.

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This! It doesn't matter what quarterback you are playing against, they all play the same. They stand there and find the open man on the short dump ALL the time. I've seen them miss deeper throws, but most of the time they find the wide open guy, even if it's a 3 yard gain on 3rd and 15.

[Sturzinator]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

Day 1 release with no patchesbthe outside run game was way overpowered.

I don't think accuracy is the issue honestly. Its the CPUs reliance on short passes. In my experience the cpu throws the safe easy pass most of the time. They rarely go deep except in hail Mary situations. A normal stat line when I play is about 20 for 30 for about 150 yards. Those incompletions are a result of numerous throw aways and dropped passes. Very rarely will I have a qb throw more than 200 yards. That's just my experience though.

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That's a good point.

It's also one of those things that could be influenced by play style, QB traits, defensive play calls, schemes, roster quality, and team vs general playbook selection.

Very tough to pin down.

[Rhudey]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

It's equally silly to throw out a few names of mediocre QBs that have had career games over the course of years in the league to attempt to rationalize what is clearly a consistent (game to game) issue for many M17 gamers.

I could match your list on a 3 or 4 to one basis of those same QBs and many others having horrible games.

The bottom line is you can probably statistically rationalize just about anything if you dig deep enough through the annals of a league with decades of game logs, but that does not excuse what is a chronic issue with the QB play in this series (not just M17).

I am not experiencing the extremes of what some are seeing with regard to the accuracy, but I am not using a community slider set. I do see where there is a problem though. One thing I do see, that a find very irksome, is that whenever it happens I injure the CPU starting QB, the back up comes in and invariably plays lights out. Often times, in fact, better than the starter he replaced.

With all the insidious and outwardly innocuous settings (main menu settings, auto subs, etc) that singly or in combination can alter the gameplay so drastically it's no wonder there's no easy solution. I am sure there are as yet undiscovered settings that are unwittingly affecting the game play in some fashion as well.

There's a reason why EA has never come out and stated what exactly the sliders do or how to use them to remedy the effects were reporting because they have no idea themselves. Speaking out would only cause them further embarrassment.

I am not hopeful there will be a solution to this or the many other legacy issues that stubbornly remain in full glory in M17 until there is a complete rebuild or the door is re-opened for competitors' offerings.

But what makes a bad qb in the NFL bad? I doubt it's his accuracy, it's more a combination of not being able to read defences, not recognizing zone/man, forcing throws into coverage, not feeling the pressure, feeling the pressure too much, can't go through progressions, etc. Even 2nd stringers in the NFL were good ones in college, they don't struggle in the pros because they make the right reads all the time but are inaccurate and their throws are off. This game doesn't simulate bad decisions by lower tier quarterbacks, but making them "inaccurate" in order to struggle is not "sim" if that's what you are looking for.

[Charvalos]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

So the awareness attribute, to what does it serve ?

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

Once you control a QB, running back or any player, awareness goes out the window.

[Charvalos]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

I was talking about the CPU, especially for the QB CPU.

[Rhudey]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

Once you control a QB, running back or any player, awareness goes out the window.

This is what makes it so difficult to simulate, when YOU control your backup quarterback he still reads the defences like you do with the starter. If you’ve mastered reading Madden defences then so has your backup. They tried to simulate the lack of awareness in 2006 with the QB vision cone, which was a great idea, but didn’t catch on. I highly doubt any backup quarterback is so inaccurate that they would miss 10-12 throws completely after making the proper read. Unfortunately, a working accuracy slider would be the only fix for this, but it’s not really what the deciding factor is in real life.
As for the CPU quarterback, you would think the Awareness slider could influence this, but it doesn’t seem to. To me all the quarterbacks play the same in this game, they can find the open man in a heartbeat.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

I really don't know what the CPU awr ratings tie into.

It could be a lot of things.

Awareness of a blitz, awareness of coverages, awareness of what defenses are called, wonderlic score, on and on.

[CleveCluby]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

In previous Maddens awareness was a huge factor in player ratings, When you were editing a player, If you adjusted his awareness rating by three or four points, it would boost his overall by one or two, Now it takes about 10 points to get a 1 point gain in his overall. I had a running back that was a 65 overall, He had an awareness of 58. I raised it to 72 thinking it would put him near the 74 0r 75 where I thought he should be. He went to a 67. Awareness isn't what it used to be..

[CleveCluby]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

OK, So why don't we all get together and do a test. We all pick one QB, One team. Each one of us pick one single attribute like Awr, TP, Acc. and set it to 0, just the one. play a game or two.. no simming, and find the results. Eventually we will find out how each single attribute affects the QB's playing style. I have done this with the QB styles such as throw away, pocket, scramble etc.and it does change how they play.

I was starting to do this on my own, but it would take too long to go through them all by myself.

Sounds like a lot of work, but if it helps adds just a little realism to the game, I am willing to try. Still currently working on a way to fix the punting issue. I personally don't have any OB issues or other real issues but I am willing to help anyone find away to make the game better for everyone.

The only problem I see is after we do the work and EA puts out a patch that fixes it anyway. If you think that will happen. Anyone interested let me know.

[Rhudey]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

OK, So why don't we all get together and do a test. We all pick one QB, One team. Each one of us pick one single attribute like Awr, TP, Acc. and set it to 0, just the one. play a game or two.. no simming, and find the results. Eventually we will find out how each single attribute affects the QB's playing style. I have done this with the QB styles such as throw away, pocket, scramble etc.and it does change how they play.

I was starting to do this on my own, but it would take too long to go through them all by myself.

Sounds like a lot of work, but if it helps adds just a little realism to the game, I am willing to try. Still currently working on a way to fix the punting issue. I personally don't have any OB issues or other real issues but I am willing to help anyone find away to make the game better for everyone.

The only problem I see is after we do the work and EA puts out a patch that fixes it anyway. If you think that will happen. Anyone interested let me know.

It's hard for me to get in more than one or two games a week, but I'm going to try to play tonight and move the cpu QB awareness to maybe 10 and see if he plays differently. Interesting point though, maybe changing accuracy, etc. of the player may have more of an effect if it's drastic.

[tdawg3782]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

Once you control a QB, running back or any player, awareness goes out the window.

I disagree with this to a point. If any of you guys have followed kaliib or kingv2k over the years know these guys dig deep into this game. Kaliib actually looks at code and King just has great insights on what is happening and what causes these things to happen.

Anyway, kaliib said Awr is kind of a tier system where if it's high enough the player will play at the level his attributes actually state. If it's lower they will not play to their potential. I've found this to be pretty accurate even when human controlling players.

King has stated he thinks QB Awr plays into how the opposing defense plays. So a high Awr QB effectively dumbs down the defense and a low Awr QB ups the defensive intensity.

Just food for thought.

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[WeimaBrewer]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

Been playing Madden for 20 years. I miss the days of just playing the game as is, no updates and you get what you pay for. I have been frustrated for awhile now with this Franchise and haven't bought since 2012. I gave it a chance this year and it amazes me this game is still having as many problems as it is. It shouldn't.

This is exactly why there should never be an exclusive license. EVER.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

It's hard for me to get in more than one or two games a week, but I'm going to try to play tonight and move the cpu QB awareness to maybe 10 and see if he plays differently. Interesting point though, maybe changing accuracy, etc. of the player may have more of an effect if it's drastic.

I thought there were a few people that tried this about a month or so ago, and nothing really changed

[CleveCluby]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update #7 Available Now, Here Are The Details

Thanks Rhudey, Please let me know who you used and what your results were. I am going to experiment with Kessler from the Browns tonight. I did this with him earlier, I dropped his Deep throw Acc to 30. Not only could he rarely complete a deep throw, he seemed not to want to throw deep. I had earlier raised his deep throw acc to 95 and that's all he wanted to do.

Now this is only a difference of two games, and I only played a little into the third quarter then exit game and play it over. But I seen what I needed to see and it was a huge difference. Playing the same team, the same GP.

This game I am going to raise his Short throw acc too 99, and then in the next game I am going to lower it to 20.

I am convinced that player ratings and styles do effect how they play but to what extent you have to go to change them is my only question.

I actually spend far more time testing than playing because I can't stand the punt issue ruining my enjoyment of my Franchise. Once the punt issue is fixed, If ever, I think I will have a very good game, until then it is test after test. But i do enjoy that part of it.