Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

What I'm saying is using all that information to recreate the play style of the individual didn't work worth a **** because it was based on completely uncontextualized data.

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Well at least I now know we are referring to the same thing but we just have a difference of opinion about it, no biggie. For me it accomplished what it was designed to do and I found it enjoyable, far more fun than just playing the traditional CPU/AI.

[ODogg]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

What I'm saying is using all that information to recreate the play style of the individual didn't work worth a **** because it was based on completely uncontextualized data.

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And you know this how? You're making a huge assumption that it was just all randomly put together without any context. How do you know it didn't take into account down, distance and other information when it was pulling tendencies?

[adembroski]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

'Uncontextualized'? U sure? I don't know for sure, either, to be honest. But, my impression of the VIP was that it would most likely take context into account. I guess we could argue what makes up 'context'? Lol. For me, at the very least, I believe it knew, '3rd and 20', 'I blitz, often'. Or, 2nd and 5, I run often. Or, 4th and 1, I always go for it, or something of that nature. And, if you call random stuff, than random stuff should be chosen. I'm not saying it was amazing, and it's been awhile since I played 2k5, lol, so there's no way I would remember. But, I remember being somewhat impressed. And, at least, theoretically, what I liked most is that I play a sim style making sim type play calls. So, if the VIP picks that up, and then it seems it would make better playcalls. But, I have no idea how good the code was under the hood.


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Uncontextual, non-contextual, out of context, whatever, the point is this...



I don't just "hurry to the line" on any 11% of plays, I hurry to the line when it's appropriate. I don't just randomly flip the play. I flip the play based on the routes being run on either side of the field, the coverage, and my QB's arm strength. There's no context being tracked. WHY do I flip the play? What am I trying to accomplish? What happens on those particular 13% of plays that compels me to make that decision?

No, VIP just flips the play anytime it decides this is one of 13 out of every 100 plays it must do so in order to replicate your play style. It's smoke and mirrors, it's weak, and it's pointless. A much more robust system can be built fairly easily (in fact, the guy who posted the franchise mode rebuild had a similar idea to mine that, while flawed, is infinitely better than VIP was.)

VIP was a concept worth exploring, but it was shallow and poorly designed. Sure, a VIP profile might have been more interesting to play, but not because you were actually getting a replication of an intelligent opponent, a reasonable artificial intelligence, but only because the AI had it's dice weighted toward particular decisions that were different from what the base AI did, thus it was different.

Not better. Just different.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

@admebroski, just showing that one screenshot isn't a good representation of all the data it compiled, here is a video showing way more data that was collected with VIP and I'm not even sure that is a complete breakdown of the system.

It's cool if you didn't care for it but I don't get why you seem to be mischaracterizing it and equating it to some Madden scout system.

[jfsolo]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

It's been a while since a Madden thread has been derailed in order to make sure that the honor of NFL 2K is not besmirched.

[Americas Team]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

In reference to the Cover 1 press issue..there are several reasons in my opinion..
1. You either win the press or lose..no between
2. Along the lines of 1..there isn't enough animations..there are several technics in press..you have one hand press depending on shad and follow..full press normally used in cover 2..press and bail which has been made popular by Seattle in Cover 3..this is just a few..then u need more bad jams animations
3. Press rating needs to be more effective
4. Needs to be less jams called by CPU in 0 coverage..and less press called in general
5. We most have press/jams in zone coverages..so players don't always know.."ok single high coverage, ball snapped, Flanker just got jammed..I have single high Cover 1"


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And to add to your list Qb's are WAY too accurate on deep passes, 99% of the time they are perfectly thrown, the receivers don't even have to adjust.

[KingKO92]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Hopefully they do this for all EA Sports games, especially FIFA.

[OhMrHanky]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

It's been a while since a Madden thread has been derailed in order to make sure that the honor of NFL 2K is not besmirched.

I think, in this case, at least, we haven't said things like, 'NFL 2k5 was the best game ever! Madden sux!' [emoji6]. Lol. We're just talking about the VIP thing as computer AI snuck into the conversation. But, wow, seeing those quick vid clips does remind me how far behind madden has been for years. Lol. [emoji848]. But, I've been digging madden, again, since 13, really. And, 16 and 17 were both very respectable and fun to play. I'm still playing CFM in 17, and I actually played MUT this year. As a sim CFM guy, I'm embarrassed to say I liked MUT. Lol. I didn't play online at all, but actually enjoyed the mode as something different to do with challenges here and there. And, collecting random players throughout the year was interesting. Looking forward to seeing what 18 has and most intrigued by the target passing, for sure. NFL 2k5 will live on as a legend of video game football, no matter what madden does. Lol.


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[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

And to add to your list Qb's are WAY too accurate on deep passes, 99% of the time they are perfectly thrown, the receivers don't even have to adjust.

For the record hate agreeing with Cowgirls fan..ughhh lol


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[Big FN Deal]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

It's been a while since a Madden thread has been derailed in order to make sure that the honor of NFL 2K is not besmirched.

Lol, not at all, just defending the honor of promising tech that has been used in the sports gaming space, no different than when others discuss page after page of NFL Fever's Read n Lead, FIFAs this, The Show's that, etc. The seeming premise behind VIP, of recording various data from Users to create a different CPU/AI experience, is solid and like I mentioned before, EA Tib apparently thought so since they claimed to have done something similar in M15.

In reference to the derailing comment:

Spoiler

Maybe, just maybe now....

"The Year of the User" means Madden 18 will finally have somewhat of a VIP system like 2k had back in the day. And the AI is going to play like you and learn from your play style, essentially making HUM vs AI now HUM vs AI/HUM.

lol Im trying to talk myself into good thoughts and away from the horrible thoughts that entered my mind when I saw that tweet.

There was nothing good about VIP. It was an AI system built to (badly) predict you based on inconsequential parameters.

No football game has gotten this right since Front Page/Sierra Sports. It's one of the reasons I hate Front Office Football. It's strategic AI is based on faulty ideas of how teams scout one another, and what factors are important in attempting to effectively game plan against opposing tendencies.

Until they get a system that can account for personnel groupings, formation adjustments at the line of scrimmage, and individual players thinking on the fly and remembering things from play to play, among many other factors, its' better teams simply play to their own real life base tendencies regardless of their opponent. At least that has some basis in reality.

the discussion about VIP was within that context of speculation about what "The year the the User" meant. Company branding aside, that type of User based tech to enhance AI/CPU, while also providing various scouting data and differentiating tendencies for coaches, coordinators, etc, could be a win for User v User, User v CPU and even CPU v CPU.

[roadman]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

I think, in this case, at least, we haven't said things like, 'NFL 2k5 was the best game ever! Madden sux!' [emoji6]. Lol. We're just talking about the VIP thing as computer AI snuck into the conversation. But, wow, seeing those quick vid clips does remind me how far behind madden has been for years. Lol. [emoji848]. But, I've been digging madden, again, since 13, really. And, 16 and 17 were both very respectable and fun to play. I'm still playing CFM in 17, and I actually played MUT this year. As a sim CFM guy, I'm embarrassed to say I liked MUT. Lol. I didn't play online at all, but actually enjoyed the mode as something different to do with challenges here and there. And, collecting random players throughout the year was interesting. Looking forward to seeing what 18 has and most intrigued by the target passing, for sure. NFL 2k5 will live on as a legend of video game football, no matter what madden does. Lol.


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Eh, piling on/sweeping under the carpet and throwing excuses up in thin air doesn't quite cut it when it could have been ignored and moved on from.

I'm sure this still holds water until 8/1/17.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ding-bans.html

As a friendly reminder, I would suggest that the talk cease on the the other game and steer more in the Madden direction.

People can take it to the other forums or PM to discuss anything further.

A mod can remove this post if they disagree.

[Millennium]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Eh, piling on/sweeping under the carpet and throwing excuses up in thin air doesn't quite cut it when it could have been ignored and moved on from.

I'm sure this still holds water until 8/1/17.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ding-bans.html

As a friendly reminder, I would suggest that the talk cease on the the other game and steer more in the Madden direction.

People can take it to the other forums or PM to discuss anything further.

A mod can remove this post if they disagree.

The mods agree.

'Nuff said.

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[OhMrHanky]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Eh, piling on/sweeping under the carpet and throwing excuses up in thin air doesn't quite cut it when it could have been ignored and moved on from.

I'm sure this still holds water until 8/1/17.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ding-bans.html

As a friendly reminder, I would suggest that the talk cease on the the other game and steer more in the Madden direction.

People can take it to the other forums or PM to discuss anything further.

A mod can remove this post if they disagree.

It's all good. I've been rereading my post, because, honestly, I wasn't trying to throw shade at madden, but I can understand how u took it that way. Again, I've been digging madden since Rex took over, so just looking forward to 18. Really curious to see what target passing is all about.

Peace. [emoji41]

[Playmakers]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Teams playing to their real life tendancies is huge.

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Sadly to my knowledge we've never had that Madden

I would love for EA to finally nail it when it comes to team/payer tendencies on the field

I guess this is where I believe if they at least installed more gameplay sliders that tied into actual team(s) playing styles we could finally see a light at the end of tunnel

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Sadly to my knowledge we've never had that Madden

I would love for EA to finally nail it when it comes to team/payer tendencies on the field

I guess this is where I believe if they at least installed more gameplay sliders that tied into actual team(s) playing styles we could finally see a light at the end of tunnel

I wish this was something they took a lot more seriously and updated throughout the year. It's like ratings where you kind of have to foreshadow what certain teams look like but it would go a long way in creating a more enjoyable AI opponent. The 49ers are going to look a lot different than they did last year but in Madden my guess is they'll just pretty much copy-paste the Falcons stuff from last year and call it good. It's one of the things that drags down CFM because everybody plays pretty much the same and calls the same stuff so you miss out on those nuances that make teams feel unique and as you get deeper into franchise those missing factors become a bigger deal IMO. They have tools in place that could improve this quite a bit but they're not utilized and it also doesn't seem like something that is very high on the priority list.