Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

[JayCutlersCig]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

Have you noticed slower players catching faster players in Madden 18?



That is another thing they cleaned up and I haven't run across in 4 seasons of CFM in Madden 18.



I side with the developer that said it's dice rolls, not scripted.

Admittedly, I have, but only before adjusting the player speed parity. I saw numerous corners that could keep up with John Ross with speeds in the high 80s.

[mykelmosinee]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

Admittedly, I have, but only before adjusting the player speed parity. I saw numerous corners that could keep up with John Ross with speeds in the high 80s.

What speed parity setting do you use?

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[Hooe]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

No one can prove it one way or other except those with inside knowledge of the code.

Given this perfectly reasonable statement, why then do so many people immediately and vehemently distrust and disagree with those who actually possess first-hand knowledge of the code (such as Rex Dickson or Clint Oldenberg) when they tell us, the Madden community, that the game is not scripted?

[NinersFan49]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

Given this perfectly reasonable statement, why then do so many people immediately and vehemently distrust and disagree with those who actually possess first-hand knowledge of the code (such as Rex Dickson or Clint Oldenberg) when they tell us, the Madden community, that the game is not scripted?

I don't immediately or inherently distrust them, far from it. My opinions were developed over 10 years and thousands of games played before Clint or Rex were even with EA. I also don't know how far Clint and Rex are on the org chart from the actual coders, plus it may be legacy code that's too foundational to be addressed.

I'm not trying to single out EA either, other games likely do similar things.The only other sports game I've spent a lot of time on is MLB2K and the same type of things happened there and were even more obvious.

[roadman]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

I'm just going to site a personal reference that Ian also confirmed that the game was not scripted, which is close to going back a decade.

I don't think in the long run it matters which side who is on, in the long run, a person is going to believe what they feel they believe, developer input or not.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

I'm just going to site a personal reference that Ian also confirmed that the game was not scripted, which is close to going back a decade.

I don't think in the long run it matters which side who is on, in the long run, a person is going to believe what they feel they believe, developer input or not.

It only matters in the sense that these people spread FUD that affects a lot of other gamers. I guarantee you that I would not play sports video games if I even suspected they were scripted.

Personally, I think a site like OS ought to take a stand on this issue. It's the equivalent of bashing developers to spread this kind of BS without a shred of evidence besides not liking the way a game ended. What the difference between calling them lazy versus dishonest?

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

Again, I really don't think anything is scripted. At best, fatigue isn't drained evenly between the CPU and the user, and the result is that the CPU suddenly "gets good" in the end, but really what's happening is your players are tired and theirs are not.

[Thunderhorse]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

Some seem to perceive "scripted" to mean the entire game has a script and we are just watching. My perception is individual plays can be "scripted" in the sense that a dice roll is so heavily favored towards a user opponent or the computer that the actual input of one user doesn't actually matter.

The devs can say the entire 20 minute game is not scripted and not be lying. Again, football is not a game of possessions, but one of inches. One play can win a game, especially in a 5 minute quarter. If the user's success depends on the mercy of a dice roll at all times, the user is not in control of what is happening and can only accept what the AI gives them. One play that is essentially "scripted" because the dice roll predetermined the outcome of the play can and will make the difference in a game.

And on an unrelated note. The devs should be accountable for their creation. You look at the animations in this game, the lack of mechanics, and compare it to a game like 2K and there is simply no question. They either lack the talent/ability or they are not trying. That is not a personal slight, it is an objective observation. There is a reason the NBA game can sell more physical copies of their game despite the fact the NFL pulls in almost 3 times as much in annual revenue.

[NinersFan49]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

Some seem to perceive "scripted" to mean the entire game has a script and we are just watching. My perception is individual plays can be "scripted" in the sense that a dice roll is so heavily favored towards a user opponent or the computer that the actual input of one user doesn't actually matter.

The devs can say the entire 20 minute game is not scripted and not be lying. Again, football is not a game of possessions, but one of inches. One play can win a game, especially in a 5 minute quarter. If the user's success depends on the mercy of a dice roll at all times, the user is not in control of what is happening and can only accept what the AI gives them. One play that is essentially "scripted" because the dice roll predetermined the outcome of the play can and will make the difference in a game.

Yes, heavily slanted dice rolls on key plays sounds reasonable. I don't think every play is scripted, either.

[roadman]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

I feel the goalpost continue to change based on the hitting keys on the keyboard vs in person interaction.

I am going off a quote of a 2k football developer back in the day, put a controller in one's hand, and sim is no longer in the equation and that sure rings true with every sport video game. ie therefore user input/stick skills takes over and the outcomes are unpredictable once that occurs.

I agree with Thunder that 2k's animations are much better than Madden's and make the outcomes more real like, but as Thunder indicated, that is another topic for another day which has been mentioned a lot in the past.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

I think, especially once sports games hit 3D, that sports games struggle to animate failure. And as games have begun to look better and better, the result has been an uncanny valley in that regard.

But even in the 2K days, I used to hear people complain about the DBs in 2K spinning in circles as they left guys uncovered. We want failure. We want lesser player to occasionally get the best of better players. But it never comes off as convincing.

Usually, the sim gamer just notes the results, realizes that it is within range and moves on. But today, that gamer doesn't seem to grasp this.

[Thunderhorse]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

But even in the 2K days, I used to hear people complain about the DBs in 2K spinning in circles as they left guys uncovered. We want failure. We want lesser player to occasionally get the best of better players. But it never comes off as convincing.

This is inaccurate.

In the 07 product, the DB's would fail often. They would stumble, they would miss after an attempted swat, and often times the talented quarterback would simply throw into windows that were not defendable.

Being aware of these things allows one to understand why the EA product continues to fail in this regard, and 10 years later the excuses are honestly getting incredibly stale.

[jfsolo]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

I think, especially once sports games hit 3D, that sports games struggle to animate failure. And as games have begun to look better and better, the result has been an uncanny valley in that regard.

But even in the 2K days, I used to hear people complain about the DBs in 2K spinning in circles as they left guys uncovered. We want failure. We want lesser player to occasionally get the best of better players. But it never comes off as convincing.

Usually, the sim gamer just notes the results, realizes that it is within range and moves on. But today, that gamer doesn't seem to grasp this.

It's seems like it just too expensive(from the perspective of the company) to add all the extra animations that would make failure visually more appealing and less blatantly "dice rolly".

[Thunderhorse]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

It's seems like it just too expensive(from the perspective of the company) to add all the extra animations that would make failure visually more appealing and less blatantly "dice rolly".

I think it's even deeper than that.

I don't think the product's math is deep enough to account for why an individual move or interaction is successful during any given play, just that it either is or isn't.

The Math has to be there for those animations to exist, and the product has never proved it "thinks" on a level that deep.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Does Madden Cheat so CPU wins?

It's pretty telling that sim gamers have craved formation subs, when that is absolutely the least sim way to generate carries by back-up RBs. But it generates the stats sim guys want. But gone is the actual strategy involved in when to switch backs based on whats actually happening. Same goes for every other position.