lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

Two things to consider here:

1. I think there is a very valid point being made here and that is people tend to overvalue their own opinion in relation to how many others share it.

2. There is also the concept of people thinking they want something but they really don't utilize it once they get it.

A full half time show is a good example. People say they want it and let's say EA invests a lot of time in it and then they just skip it by pressing a button.

It's not just about having the ability to add something but whether or not it makes sense as a whole from a business perspective.

I don't think many of you are looking at it in that context. I also don't believe some of you are even capable of looking at it in that context and I even see some of you admitting as much in the comments here.

Exactly. Just because NBA 2K has 100 sliders or options, doesn't necessarily mean they care more about their customers, or spend more time or money, or create a "better game." It just means that the options in the game may have been very efficient to add, thus not really affecting cost. So whether the options were used or not was not a big concern. But it looks good to be able to advertise a bunch of options which most will never use but gives an illusion of value to the consumer.

In basketball a created player will be seen a lot. In football we rarely see a coach. When we do see a coach it may seem forced as oppsoed to natural. A created player has a helmet on. The most important option in this case would be uniform accessories.

[triplechin]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

Exactly. Just because NBA 2K has 100 sliders or options, doesn't necessarily mean they care more about their customers, or spend more time or money, or create a "better game." It just means that the options in the game may have been very efficient to add, thus not really affecting cost. So whether the options were used or not was not a big concern. But it looks good to be able to advertise a bunch of options which most will never use but gives an illusion of value to the consumer.

In basketball a created player will be seen a lot. In football we rarely see a coach. When we do see a coach it may seem forced as oppsoed to natural. A created player has a helmet on. The most important option in this case would be uniform accessories.

Not every single thing they added will be used by every single player but they are creating an immersive experience for everyone and letting them make it to their desire. 2K is just in a different stratosphere for this game mode. I'm sorry but you can't even compare the sheer amount of content added in their MyLeague with Madden's "CFM Overhaul". Madden just has not given franchise mode love. We can argue whether or not it makes sense from a business perspective but 2K is definitely making a better franchise experience.

[ODogg]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

Not every single thing they added will be used by every single player but they are creating an immersive experience for everyone and letting them make it to their desire. 2K is just in a different stratosphere for this game mode. I'm sorry but you can't even compare the sheer amount of content added in their MyLeague with Madden's "CFM Overhaul". Madden just has not given franchise mode love. We can argue whether or not it makes sense from a business perspective but 2K is definitely making a better franchise experience.

I cannot speak to franchise but I know that the "MyPlayer" mode in 2K is my favorite thing in probably any sports game

[23]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

EA is not going to reach the majority of the NFL fan base which is creating the revenue. Those people are a higher income who may have other interests besides playing video games.

Boxes at games are very expensive - corporations can purchase boxes and they receive tax benefits, for example, but assists in increasing ticket prices for the other seats which limits the demographics contributing to NFL revenue at the stadium level.

Football is a team game. Basketball is a game I can play with one other person. I can practice shooting baskets by myself. I can practice throwing a football but then I have to fetch it after each throw.

Point is, basketball is more accessible to a larger demographic than football in a sociology perspective which could explain also why people may choose to purchase a basketball game. They see the sport as easier to jump into and play alone and choose the video game which is perceived to be easier.

And again, explain why NBA Live is doing so bad?

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[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

And again, explain why NBA Live is doing so bad?

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I know nothing about NBA Live. We are talking NBA 2k and Madden. I barely played NBA 2k17. All I am stating is that there is more reason to have a custom player creator in a basketball game where they do not wear helmets 100% of the time.

Madden would have to find ways to show off the created player models. I am all for creating a world for CFM which is modeled after an open world style game. I have mentioned it in here multiple times to little support.

NBA Live? They have huge competition with the established NBA 2k is about all I can guess. I would have to research the two games to even attempt an explanation.

Seems the main point being made by those supporting NBA 2k is that they believe EA is greedy and lazy; that if it's in NBA 2k it should be in Madden without question. That is not a valid argument.

[23]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

Exactly. Just because NBA 2K has 100 sliders or options, doesn't necessarily mean they care more about their customers, or spend more time or money, or create a "better game." It just means that the options in the game may have been very efficient to add, thus not really affecting cost. So whether the options were used or not was not a big concern. But it looks good to be able to advertise a bunch of options which most will never use but gives an illusion of value to the consumer.

In basketball a created player will be seen a lot. In football we rarely see a coach. When we do see a coach it may seem forced as oppsoed to natural. A created player has a helmet on. The most important option in this case would be uniform accessories.

They absolutely do care by taking alot of the feedback and ideas from the fans then implementing it. It's been that way for many many years and that's why they succeed.

They aren't just adding random sliders, they all make gameplay sense that solves issues for the sport, and in general the suggestions are made by the gamers themselves directly to the Devs which again aren't random but specific in nature due to that interaction, some done here right on this very forum.

They've even implemented something fans asked for within a couple of days of asking on the forum.

In fact guys like leftos, jaosming, da Czar, bedwardsroy, etc were not only fans and members here on OS but they're hired and making big strides in the game RIGHT NOW....some I've seen with my own eyes.

You don't make a quality game this massive without some passion and care.

When it all boils down to it, you get it done or you don't.



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[23]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

I know nothing about NBA Live. We are talking NBA 2k and Madden. I barely played NBA 2k17. All I am stating is that there is more reason to have a custom player creator in a basketball game where they do not wear helmets 100% of the time.

Madden would have to find ways to show off the created player models. I am all for creating a world for CFM which is modeled after an open world style game. I have mentioned it in here multiple times to little support.

NBA Live? They have huge competition with the established NBA 2k is about all I can guess. I would have to research the two games to even attempt an explanation.

Seems the main point being made by those supporting NBA 2k is that they believe EA is greedy and lazy; that if it's in NBA 2k it should be in Madden without question. That is not a valid argument.

No we're talking about the sports basketball and football and it has nothing to do with access..

NBA live is as old as Madden dating back to the 80s when it was Lakers vs Celtics etc.

It's not competition as it is it's not a good game, and it has never sold as many copies even in it's heyday.


But don't try to make it seem like making a b-ball game is just easier when you have a consistent example of the very opposite case...and I means years of proof.

I didn't use the words greedy or lazy to make my points because I can cite examples of what I'm saying.

Why do you think Madden is not growing at a much faster rate?

[triplechin]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

I cannot speak to franchise but I know that the "MyPlayer" mode in 2K is my favorite thing in probably any sports game

Amen bro. I'm not a huge bball fan but I love playing with my friends on ProAM. I dabble in MyLeague just because of the quality but more than anything I'm jealous that the mode exists for basketball and we don't have a football equivalent lol.

As an anecdote, I would definitely say that 2K has gotten me more invested in the NBA.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

They absolutely do care by taking alot of the feedback and ideas from the fans then implementing it. It's been that way for many many years and that's why they succeed.

They aren't just adding random sliders, they all make gameplay sense that solves issues for the sport, and in general the suggestions are made by the gamers themselves directly to the Devs which again aren't random but specific in nature due to that interaction, some done here right on this very forum.

They've even implemented something fans asked for within a couple of days of asking on the forum.

In fact guys like leftos, jaosming, da Czar, bedwardsroy, etc were not only fans and members here on OS but they're hired and making big strides in the game RIGHT NOW....some I've seen with my own eyes.

You don't make a quality game this massive without some passion and care.

When it all boils down to it, you get it done or you don't.



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And in my opinion, Madden is better than NBA 2k. That is really what it comes down to. I do not know these people you are naming or what 2K has put in the game or have not put in the game.

If they were able to add additions to the game the community wanted, then it would seem obvious it was simple enough to do in the time frame they did it, and cost-effective.

Like I previously said, the only argument is - they (2K) did it, so they (madden) should be able too, else they must just not be good. which is a ridiculous argument when based on that simple premise alone.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

No we're talking about the sports basketball and football and it has nothing to do with access..

NBA live is as old as Madden dating back to the 80s when it was Lakers vs Celtics etc.

It's not competition as it is it's not a good game, and it has never sold as many copies even in it's heyday.


But don't try to make it seem like making a b-ball game is just easier when you have a consistent example of the very opposite case...and I means years of proof.

I didn't use the words greedy or lazy to make my points because I can cite examples of what I'm saying.

Why do you think Madden is not growing at a much faster rate?

You are going off on tangents, apparently just for the sake of argument. As I stated - I do not play NBA LIVE or know anything about it. Please, understand what I am saying.

[howboutdat]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

So we really going to true to argue that madden franchise is doing as much or shows they care as much as 2k does for their franchise mode , eventhough 1 clearly adds a lot more to their game each year, while the other dribbles out stuff at best?

The denial is so real sometimes. Its rather simple to see.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

Two things to consider here:

1. I think there is a very valid point being made here and that is people tend to overvalue their own opinion in relation to how many others share it.

2. There is also the concept of people thinking they want something but they really don't utilize it once they get it.

A full half time show is a good example. People say they want it and let's say EA invests a lot of time in it and then they just skip it by pressing a button.

It's not just about having the ability to add something but whether or not it makes sense as a whole from a business perspective.

I don't think many of you are looking at it in that context. I also don't believe some of you are even capable of looking at it in that context and I even see some of you admitting as much in the comments here.

Exactly. Just because NBA 2K has 100 sliders or options, doesn't necessarily mean they care more about their customers, or spend more time or money, or create a "better game." It just means that the options in the game may have been very efficient to add, thus not really affecting cost. So whether the options were used or not was not a big concern. But it looks good to be able to advertise a bunch of options which most will never use but gives an illusion of value to the consumer.

In basketball a created player will be seen a lot. In football we rarely see a coach. When we do see a coach it may seem forced as oppsoed to natural. A created player has a helmet on. The most important option in this case would be uniform accessories.

I get the business side in decision making, but by that theory is 2K making bad decisions in adding all these things that might go lightly used? Ummm NO! I'd say 2K's business model is working pretty well & the growth in sales shows that and is undeniable. People can argue that and we can debate it to no end, but obviously 1 is doing things 1 way and 1 is doing things the polar opposite so you tell me who you think has the better business plan and direction. I'm going to lean to the one making more money, selling more units, and listen to the community as a whole as to the differences in complaints.

The responses from that 2K blog say otherwise as well. Read a madden blog thread and then read a 2K blog thread. In madden its underwhelming, constant complaining, and full of I'll believe it when I see it and full of cautiously optimistic comments. 2K on the other hand gets praised from everyone. Madden guys pop over and drool in wishing they had a CFM like what 2K has. 2K doesn't just cater to 1 crowd though. They add things for little Timmy, the casual, and the hardcore. They pay attention to there most used modes as well and don't ignore them. I think those are great business decisions imo. Adding 100 things as opposed to 5 I will take all day everyday. Adding unlimited customization compared to no added customization I also take every day all day! Is this even a discussion? LOL! As far as most players will skip it argument. Yes most might but what about those that don't. Why pick just 1 to cater too? Are you saying they waste resources by doing a halftime show as most will skip it? Maybe little Timmy skips it but the hardcore wants all the immersion they can get.

@stress - You are missing the point. You would be downloading a players DNA. You could put Ray Lewis, Deion Sanders, etc into your league if you chose. You would probably have a plethora of retro rosters as you can share CAP's with each other, etc. That caters to everyone. How many complaints did you see about trade logic from madden? Bad free agent signings? No CPU logic behind what they did in madden? 2K just gave us sliders to fix all that regardless if its used by the masses or not. The difference is 2K gives us these things as a cherry on top to the big additions they also give us. They don't have to but they do and they go above and beyond to do so. They don't make excuses about time, short dev cycle, etc. They always take the communities most wanted lists and add them the next year & do not ignore them every year like some other games.

For me with Madden I'd like to see a break block slider, a throw speed slider, fumble slider, and sliders like 2K just added for trade logic, free agency logic, contract logic, etc just to name a quick few that could be beneficial to gameplay and within a CFM experience.

[23]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

And in my opinion, Madden is better than NBA 2k. That is really what it comes down to. I do not know these people you are naming or what 2K has put in the game or have not put in the game.

If they were able to add additions to the game the community wanted, then it would seem obvious it was simple enough to do in the time frame they did it, and cost-effective.

Like I previously said, the only argument is - they (2K) did it, so they (madden) should be able too, else they must just not be good. which is a ridiculous argument when based on that simple premise alone.

That's definitely your opinion but the sales and growth aren't reflecting that.

The people I'm naming we're posters on this very forum just like you who were either tech savvy or modders but definitely gamers and passionate who were hired recently to work on the game.

It has nothing to do with time and cost effectiveness. It's the fact that they have a superior development team and owners who love games that allow them to implement their ideas freely.

If I compare Madden to any large AAA game that's mainstream like say FIFA or Batman or GTA or uncharted

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[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

No we're talking about the sports basketball and football and it has nothing to do with access..

NBA live is as old as Madden dating back to the 80s when it was Lakers vs Celtics etc.

It's not competition as it is it's not a good game, and it has never sold as many copies even in it's heyday.


But don't try to make it seem like making a b-ball game is just easier when you have a consistent example of the very opposite case...and I means years of proof.

I didn't use the words greedy or lazy to make my points because I can cite examples of what I'm saying.

Why do you think Madden is not growing at a much faster rate?

Multiple generations have 'grown up' playing Madden.

They simply haven't retained the lifers.

If they had, this would be the biggest title annually, BAR NONE.

[23]

Re: lets be real here is Madden Anti-consumer???

You are going off on tangents, apparently just for the sake of argument. As I stated - I do not play NBA LIVE or know anything about it. Please, understand what I am saying.

And the point was if basketball is as good or more easily accessible than football then why is it failing?

That's not a tangent it's just a contradiction to the statent you made that isn't true


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