Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed)

[icicle22]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

Why would you throw a lob on a post route? Not saying it has to be a bullet but a lob? That just gives the DB time to catch up first of all.

My example was supposed to be if there is no deep coverage and I picked a route where the receiver had to make a change in direction....because the original post was about anticipating his route. As someone else has stated, throwing more of a bullet or a line drive seems to trigger the DB to lurch forward or warp into position and knock it away. If I lobbed it it would essentially allow my receiver to run under it and keep the db from knocking it away because of the trajectory.

And my point was that sometimes my own QB would be throwing to where my receiver is rather than where he is going to to be going when he makes his cut. Kinda like in the NFL where QB and WR aren't on same page of the playbook and running different route than anticipated.

[edgevoice]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

I agree also with this post..however, there is one other element to it that EA would have to workout..and if EA figured it out..the player/human would have to deal with the blow back at times..and here is that element..

duplicating WR knowledge of zone/man, route concepts..there are still plenty of pro level WR’s who make the wrong read on option routes..also others who have hard time learning how to find the soft spot in zone coverages..

if EA is able to duplicate that..then what happens..players scream..when their WR misreads coverage or has hard time finding soft spot in coverage

Double edge sword..but to be clear I want both, WR’s who don’t have understanding of there playbook, route concepts, finding soft spot in zone and WR’s smart enough to properly break off routes based on coverage


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Good points. Whenever you are faced with a problem in life, you have to think the solution all the way through so as to be sure you aren't opening up another can of worms. What EA could possibly do is add more option routes to the playbooks for folks that want to run those types of plays.

I'm probably in the minority, as while I understand the concept of receivers adjusting their routes predicated on the coverage, I'm more comfortable with knowing exactly who's running what, what routes beat man, what routes beat zone, reading it out and hopefully getting the ball to the proper receiver.

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

Good points. Whenever you are faced with a problem in life, you have to think the solution all the way through so as to be sure you aren't opening up another can of worms. What EA could possibly do is add more option routes to the playbooks for folks that want to run those types of plays.

I'm probably in the minority, as while I understand the concept of receivers adjusting their routes predicated on the coverage, I'm more comfortable with knowing exactly who's running what, what routes beat man, what routes beat zone, reading it out and hopefully getting the ball to the proper receiver.

Agreed Edge..I understand coverages and counters to certain route because I played DBack..but like anything there is breaks downs due to fatigue, lack of practice, knowledge of the Playbook etc..

my fear with the current gamer outside of many here in OS (and some even here)..if a gamers AI teammate misplays a concept, coverage, etc, the player will scream at the Devs over issues with the game


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[edgevoice]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

Agreed Edge..I understand coverages and counters to certain route because I played DBack..but like anything there is breaks downs due to fatigue, lack of practice, knowledge of the Playbook etc..

my fear with the current gamer outside of many here in OS (and some even here)..if a gamers AI teammate misplays a concept, coverage, etc, the player will scream at the Devs over issues with the game


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I hear you. What's most puzzling to me is that by having Aracade/Competitive/Simulation gameplay choices, is why we have to worry about this in the first place?

To be fair, sim does feel more like sim since the latest patches and tuners. For instance, I was bringing a nickel blitz on a play action pass. Unfortunately, I didn't get there and gave up a wide open crossing route to the slot receiver. When I replayed, my slot DB hesitated and bit somewhat on the fake handoff.

I went into practice mode, recreated this scenario and it happened about 30% of the time. That I can live with, especially since my DB is not highly rated. If it happened every time, that I would have a problem with.

In simulation mode, I obviously want ratings to have a significant outcome on the result of the play, but I'd like it to feel "organic" and not scripted. Most of the time, I'm finding the game to feel more the former, although the latter still rears it's ugly head as I still occasionally experience a very average CPU HB's breaking an inordinate amount of tackles every once in awhile, whereas when I go back and look at the replay all I can do is laugh.

[jfsolo]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

Agreed Edge..I understand coverages and counters to certain route because I played DBack..but like anything there is breaks downs due to fatigue, lack of practice, knowledge of the Playbook etc..

my fear with the current gamer outside of many here in OS (and some even here)..if a gamers AI teammate misplays a concept, coverage, etc, the player will scream at the Devs over issues with the game


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

In an interview Clint said that this is exactly why receivers aren't programmed to purposely find holes in zones in Madden. I obviously disagree with that whole playstyle, but I understand why the competitive space wants as much as possible to be user defined, but it crushes me that on simulation style receivers have to be so oblivious to what the defense is doing in coverage.

Sadly I don't think that it's a winnable battle so I don't spend that much time asking for it to be changed, but for me, static receiver route running is one of my top five gameplay weaknesses currently.

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

In an interview Clint said that this is exactly why receivers aren't programmed to purposely find holes in zones in Madden. I obviously disagree with that whole playstyle, but I understand why the competitive space wants as much as possible to be user defined, but it crushes me that on simulation style receivers have to be so oblivious to what the defense is doing in coverage.



Sadly I don't think that it's a winnable battle so I don't spend that much time asking for it to be changed, but for me, static receiver route running is one of my top five gameplay weaknesses currently.

I think EA “over sold” just how effective the play styles would be..and of course many of us here over “thought” how each mode would be that significantly different.


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[ajra21]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

Agreed Edge..I understand coverages and counters to certain route because I played DBack..but like anything there is breaks downs due to fatigue, lack of practice, knowledge of the Playbook etc..

my fear with the current gamer outside of many here in OS (and some even here)..if a gamers AI teammate misplays a concept, coverage, etc, the player will scream at the Devs over issues with the game


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

In an interview Clint said that this is exactly why receivers aren't programmed to purposely find holes in zones in Madden. I obviously disagree with that whole playstyle, but I understand why the competitive space wants as much as possible to be user defined, but it crushes me that on simulation style receivers have to be so oblivious to what the defense is doing in coverage.

Sadly I don't think that it's a winnable battle so I don't spend that much time asking for it to be changed, but for me, static receiver route running is one of my top five gameplay weaknesses currently.

Both reasoned and fair.

We expect too much from games and we don't think of all the consequences of the "fixes" we propose.

[LBzrule]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

I agree with the principle, but this game needs to get rid of Ball Hawk. I wish the game made a replay of this play, but I can only describe it and I can send you the mixer account and the time on the stream.

Offense - Ace Inside Cross. Both TE's run drags the HB is on a delay curl. The WR on the left runs a post, the WR on the right runs a dig. I like to change the dig to a comeback in Madden, but anyways. The user takes the MLB and bites on the drag going to the left, so I have the post wide open. He's literally standing at the line of scrimmage and he's just holding Y following the TE. I throw the post and his LB leaps up for an INT. It's just garbage like that that makes the game irritating to play. There should be nothing special I need to do on that. I made the right read and the ball was getting out on time. Ball Hawk just nullifies the principles and EA either needs to make it a trait where only certain players have it, and it needs to be based on real-life data, or just get rid of it altogether.

Mixer.com/William_Gomes 1:30:30 I think or somewhere around there on the Bills vs Phins game. Before this game my QB had the 2nd best completion percentage in our cfm and he had the 2nd best passer rating. And that was with the cpu playing two games for me because I moved and couldn't play. I have a pretty good handle on the passing game, it's just in Madden real-life passing concepts get nullified because the game doesn't respect space and ground that defenders should not be able to make up once they commit to something else.

[k1ngofny]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

I agree with the principle, but this game needs to get rid of Ball Hawk. I wish the game made a replay of this play, but I can only describe it and I can send you the mixer account and the time on the stream.

Offense - Ace Inside Cross. Both TE's run drags the HB is on a delay curl. The WR on the left runs a post, the WR on the right runs a dig. I like to change the dig to a comeback in Madden, but anyways. The user takes the MLB and bites on the drag going to the left, so I have the post wide open. He's literally standing at the line of scrimmage and he's just holding Y following the TE. I throw the post and his LB leaps up for an INT. It's just garbage like that that makes the game irritating to play. There should be nothing special I need to do on that. I made the right read and the ball was getting out on time. Ball Hawk just nullifies the principles and EA either needs to make it a trait where only certain players have it, and it needs to be based on real-life data, or just get rid of it altogether.

Mixer.com/William_Gomes 1:30:30 I think or somewhere around there on the Bills vs Phins game. Before this game my QB had the 2nd best completion percentage in our cfm and he had the 2nd best passer rating. And that was with the cpu playing two games for me because I moved and couldn't play. I have a pretty good handle on the passing game, it's just in Madden real-life passing concepts get nullified because the game doesn't respect space and ground that defenders should not be able to make up once they commit to something else.

Someone else made a comment that QBs in this game have ridiculous arm strength and I think he may be on to something. If you watch replays every time a LB seems to make a ridiculous leaping interception, it's always on a bullet pass that has an extremely low trajectory. There is just about no arc on the ball whatsoever and that is completely unrealistic. I don't think QBs in real life, even if they attempted to try and throw a fastball into tight coverage can throw a ball with that kind of trajectory. (Except maybe Pat Mahomes)

The solution of course, is touch passes with a little less touch and a little more velocity for those intermediate throws over LBs and in front of the safety.

[Meddera]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

I don't care how good you are at anticipating. Guys completely out of position make crazy moves on the ball all the time. Please explain how this pass was an interception? The guy is COMPLETELY behind my receiver who is running a slant. The pass is perfectly thrown, doesn't get bounced into the air or anything. I had another one where my speedy TE is running a post and has his man beat who is behind him on the backside. The LB dives all the way across and knocks the ball down. Just crap that is not even physically possible happens all the time.

[Meddera]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

I throw tons of interceptions in the endzone, because simply having position on your man is not enough in this game. Guys catch passes in traffic ALL the time in the NFL, hell in the endzone no one is ever wide open unless the other team just sells out to stop the run.

I realize they want the game to be more difficult, that passing is the way these games have been dominated in the past. But don't code in cheating to make up for poor play calling and bad mechanics.

Having said that I'm currently 3-0 on all pro with standard sliders. I even won a game throwing 4 picks. Why? Because running the ball is too easy, particularly inside zone runs to the weak side. Plus the AI goes cover 3 far too often on 1st down, even after I run on first down over and over and over.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

Well now playing against a user and not the CPU is a different story. A user that has mastered using a LB or Safety to roam the middle of the field can take away 2 and even sometimes 3 routes at the same time. User defenders can be overpowered with a good user then the strategy on offense just becomes avoiding the user defender. Against a user you need to try and read which player they are using pre-snap and sometimes call hot routes that will draw them off of your primary WR you want to target.


Another thing that gets overlooked, and I'll admit I used to be guilty of this but the bullet pass gets over used. I used to only throw bullets unless it was a go route then I would just throw a regular lob. If you go in to practice mode and work on touch and lob passes then zone coverage or even tight man coverage becomes easier to beat.



Also work on high pointing passes using the L1/LB buttons or low pointing passes using the L2/LT buttons. If you throw a deep ball in to tighter coverage to a WR like Julio Jones and you high point a touch pass often times they will go up and try to get the ball over the defender. If you play around with these throwing mechanics you'll find that you throw less interceptions. Even in tight coverage I find at least for me if I use these different mechanics at the right time then usually worse case scenario the defender is only in position to possibly break up the pass not intercept it because they place the ball better.

This is way underrated, and I do it on nearly every pass so I forgot to even mention it in the video. But yeah, unless my guy is wide open I'll throw it using those triggers almost every time.




Anyway, another thing is that you have to be willing to throw short, to check it down, a lot more than people like to do. And that's why you need a run game, to make those passes more useful. Basically in this Madden against the AI you really need to mix up your play calling.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

I throw tons of interceptions in the endzone, because simply having position on your man is not enough in this game. Guys catch passes in traffic ALL the time in the NFL, hell in the endzone no one is ever wide open unless the other team just sells out to stop the run.

I realize they want the game to be more difficult, that passing is the way these games have been dominated in the past. But don't code in cheating to make up for poor play calling and bad mechanics.

Having said that I'm currently 3-0 on all pro with standard sliders. I even won a game throwing 4 picks. Why? Because running the ball is too easy, particularly inside zone runs to the weak side. Plus the AI goes cover 3 far too often on 1st down, even after I run on first down over and over and over.

Weird. I actually a have trouble with runs comparatively speaking (maybe it's All Madden, or maybe it's my roster, but I also tend to shut the AI down in the run game).


But red zone passing is definitely different. You don't have the room to lead as much, and anticipation is less effective because of that. I tend to find myself needing to see it open before throwing in the red zone a lot more than between the twenties.

[Godgers12]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

Thing is, I will throw it early on a comeback route against man. I read it right pre and post snap, I throw it right around where he should be breaking back and instead either I threw it a tad early or the WR ran too long, anyway, the CB picked it in the endzone because I zipped it anticipating the WR coming back for it in which he never did. He should have broke just before the endzone yet carried his route all the way into the endzone. I only play online CFM so this kind of stuff infuriates me.

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[Meddera]

Re: Here is how NOT to throw interceptions (All Madden User/AI pass protection nerfed

The defensive warp crap is what really bothers me the most. Where I've got a TE open 10 yards down the field and a LB who is 5 yards away from him not involved in the play moving the opposite direction suddenly stops warps the other direction and slaps the ball down. This sort of junk is EA's way of creating difficulty.

People say well don't use the bullet pass, and often times you really don't have a choice as the speed of the defenders is so crazy they can close and break up the play. Their precision is remarkable. How many times have any of you side stepped a sack? It's impossible. They fly in like heat seekers and once they are in the back field it's over because you can't juke them, and you can't outrun them. They do it to me all the time because I don't have 100% accuracy when trying to make a tackle. Sometimes I just miss the QB. I dive and miss or I just run right by him. It happens. Just like it happens in real football every single game.