Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

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  • Shosum13
    MVP
    • Jul 2011
    • 1177

    #61
    Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

    Originally posted by underdog13
    Hopefully the attributes are lowered as well and this isn't just a recalc of how OVR is created.
    That would be so frustrating if they were going around promoting that they recalled the ratings. Only to find out when the game ships they just adjusted how OVR was calculated. I don't put it passed them but I dont think that's the case here.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

    Comment

    • lions2k9
      Rookie
      • Sep 2009
      • 314

      #62
      Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

      Hearing that some starting players will be around 55 overall seems unrealistically low for a starter. Sometimes I wonder if a lot of the devs are just casual football fans and don’t really get it. I’ll be able to edit their ratings before the season starts so I’m not complaining, but they should know there isn’t a huge disparity of talent in the nfl.

      Comment

      • feeq14
        MVP
        • Jun 2004
        • 3526

        #63
        Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

        Some quick thoughts and ideas

        I’m hoping that they are really leaning into the RPG game theory for these new ratings. I think that such a system could work well if they are using RNG dice rolls to determine win loss rates.. The key is that they need to make sure win loss rates are not game breaking and that extreme ends of win loss rates occur in ways that make sense.


        1- Speed should be completely static and should not factor into dice rolls at all. (more on this in a bit)


        2- Other physical attributes such as strength, agi, acc, and jump should be significant modifiers and tie breakers on technique attributes such as blockshed, spec catch, finesse moves, power moves, run block, etc. Let’s say a cb and a wr have equal press/release attributes, a secondary roll should occur where the player with the greates combo of acc, agi, and strength dictates the win.


        3- All technique based attributes serve as the baseline dice rolls for win/lose/draw/superwin chances, and each of those should have unique animations. (BTW where are you guys getting this stuff on the lack of insta-wins? I have seen plenty of insta sheds in just the last few days)



        I’m pretty sure all of this is already implemented in the system in some form or fashion. What has to change are the parameters of possible outcomes based on ratings gaps.



        1. If a OL has 50 in finesse block and run block, and similar grades for physical attributes. His chances of a win animation against a 70 level defensive end should have a less than 50% chance of happening, with an incredibly small chance for a “crit” that would constitute a super win. These probabilities should go down exponentially as the ratings divide gets larger to the point where a 90 plus rated defensive end will have an extremely high win rate and a very high super win rate. (Think of what Khalil Mack did to the Packers week 1 when they weren’t prepared for him).


        2. The dice rolls should not override the game’s physics. A win or a super win on a go route should not make it so an 84 speed tight end burns a 95 speed corner on a go rout. It should only give a certain amount of separation after the animation plays out and then speed kicks back in. I’ve had multiple experiences where CBs just aren’t allowed to catch up to a receiver until the receiver catches the ball. (I can post a video) Players like Patrick Peterson never get burned because they have elite athleticism. His ability to cover is mostly his ability to cover ground. His technique is not on par with other elite corners, but he’s far better than them in athleticism. They will also have to incidents where momentum is canceled out for an animation to play out. All of these things need to go away in general, especially if this ratings stretch is to work.


        3. Most importantly is that we need to have the ability to make adjustments both in gameplanning and on the fly. ID the mike should allow me to assign a chip or a double team on any defensive lineman. They need to really explain what “spotlight receiver” means and have it work so I can create bracket coverages on WRs on zone plays. They need to really improve double team logic on man coverage so that one player plays underneath and the other over the top. They are going to need to open up the depth chart options and fix the formation sub options to allow teams to create mismatches and defend against mismatches. They will also need to make gameplanning really have an effect on the game. If we game plan on defense to really focus on stopping a Julio Jones, or Zeke Elliot, that needs to be very apparent on the field AND have clear consequences. They need to make cpu AI make in game adjustments to their game scripts so that if they see I’m loading up the box with 8 guys every down they start taking shots and making me play off. The also need to have an “easy” mode or casual mode where none of this matters and regular joes can pick up and play.

        That last bullet is my biggest hope and fear. I’m hopeful because IF they want to do this right, then they KNOW that those things have to happen. But if they don’t do it right then it will be a waste of time and resources, OR completely broken.

        Comment

        • madmax25
          Rookie
          • Nov 2016
          • 58

          #64
          Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

          Originally posted by feeq14
          Some quick thoughts and ideas

          I’m hoping that they are really leaning into the RPG game theory for these new ratings. I think that such a system could work well if they are using RNG dice rolls to determine win loss rates.. The key is that they need to make sure win loss rates are not game breaking and that extreme ends of win loss rates occur in ways that make sense.


          1- Speed should be completely static and should not factor into dice rolls at all. (more on this in a bit)


          2- Other physical attributes such as strength, agi, acc, and jump should be significant modifiers and tie breakers on technique attributes such as blockshed, spec catch, finesse moves, power moves, run block, etc. Let’s say a cb and a wr have equal press/release attributes, a secondary roll should occur where the player with the greates combo of acc, agi, and strength dictates the win.


          3- All technique based attributes serve as the baseline dice rolls for win/lose/draw/superwin chances, and each of those should have unique animations. (BTW where are you guys getting this stuff on the lack of insta-wins? I have seen plenty of insta sheds in just the last few days)



          I’m pretty sure all of this is already implemented in the system in some form or fashion. What has to change are the parameters of possible outcomes based on ratings gaps.



          1. If a OL has 50 in finesse block and run block, and similar grades for physical attributes. His chances of a win animation against a 70 level defensive end should have a less than 50% chance of happening, with an incredibly small chance for a “crit” that would constitute a super win. These probabilities should go down exponentially as the ratings divide gets larger to the point where a 90 plus rated defensive end will have an extremely high win rate and a very high super win rate. (Think of what Khalil Mack did to the Packers week 1 when they weren’t prepared for him).


          2. The dice rolls should not override the game’s physics. A win or a super win on a go route should not make it so an 84 speed tight end burns a 95 speed corner on a go rout. It should only give a certain amount of separation after the animation plays out and then speed kicks back in. I’ve had multiple experiences where CBs just aren’t allowed to catch up to a receiver until the receiver catches the ball. (I can post a video) Players like Patrick Peterson never get burned because they have elite athleticism. His ability to cover is mostly his ability to cover ground. His technique is not on par with other elite corners, but he’s far better than them in athleticism. They will also have to incidents where momentum is canceled out for an animation to play out. All of these things need to go away in general, especially if this ratings stretch is to work.


          3. Most importantly is that we need to have the ability to make adjustments both in gameplanning and on the fly. ID the mike should allow me to assign a chip or a double team on any defensive lineman. They need to really explain what “spotlight receiver” means and have it work so I can create bracket coverages on WRs on zone plays. They need to really improve double team logic on man coverage so that one player plays underneath and the other over the top. They are going to need to open up the depth chart options and fix the formation sub options to allow teams to create mismatches and defend against mismatches. They will also need to make gameplanning really have an effect on the game. If we game plan on defense to really focus on stopping a Julio Jones, or Zeke Elliot, that needs to be very apparent on the field AND have clear consequences. They need to make cpu AI make in game adjustments to their game scripts so that if they see I’m loading up the box with 8 guys every down they start taking shots and making me play off. The also need to have an “easy” mode or casual mode where none of this matters and regular joes can pick up and play.

          That last bullet is my biggest hope and fear. I’m hopeful because IF they want to do this right, then they KNOW that those things have to happen. But if they don’t do it right then it will be a waste of time and resources, OR completely broken.
          I love this and would like to add one particular adjustment as well. So much of defensive gameplanning is NOT calling plays. Defensive coordinators don't look at some multi-colored playsheet and think, hmm, I'm going to call engage 8 here. Sure, DCs dial up blitzes when they see the need, but most of defense is establishing a base defense with checks based on offensive formations.

          So what I'd like to see is, for instance, a gameplan as part of the weekly practice. You could call your base defense against the opponents personnel group (11 for instance). So let's say I want to play Cover 3 from 4-3 Under vs. 3 WR 1RB 1TE. When the offense breaks the huddle, if they go into trips, I want to be able to have an auto-audible hot route instead of hot routing certain assignments on every play. In real football, if a team comes out in trips, the defense automatically checks to certain assignments (or base). I would love the ability to have one of the audible buttons be assigned to a formation based check. It's sort of already there because the front and coverage already flip automatically based on strength. The next step is allowing us to determine what we call strength (field vs formation) and then allow us to check multiple hot routes based on formation (for instance vs trips, the weak side CB is automatically in man or YOYO).

          Comment

          • Speedy
            #Ace
            • Apr 2008
            • 16143

            #65
            Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

            I love the fact there is such a variance in ratings because that reflects accurately. More so, the gameplay should visibly show the difference in the elite vs. great vs. good vs. crap players. My question is going to be how developing players is going to be updated/improved. Questions such as:

            1) Will the player's ratings change during the season?
            2) If so, how much? Will performance be a huge driver in-season?
            3) How much will a player's ratings change in the off-season? What level of impact can I have on this or is it just some random number?
            4) Will coaching actually make a dent? If I have a A-level positional/assistant/head coach, will that matter vs. a D-level coach?
            Last edited by Speedy; 05-09-2019, 11:18 AM.
            Originally posted by Gibson88
            Anyone who asked for an ETA is not being Master of their Domain.
            It's hard though...especially when I got my neighbor playing their franchise across the street...maybe I will occupy myself with Glamore Magazine.

            Comment

            • PhillyPhanatic14
              MVP
              • Jun 2015
              • 4824

              #66
              Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

              Originally posted by illwill10
              I know they have certain animations and outcomes due to a certain threshold. So I'm curious to see how they balanced gameplay to accommodate spread out ratings.

              I know this is a bit back in the thread but I think it's a great point. I think they should have more thresholds with these spread out ratings. Instead of 2-3 like they have had it should be 7-8. That would be huge.



              The only game I can reference with a similar ratings spread is fifa where ratings are capped at 94 and it's impossible to go higher in a career. There's an insane difference between an 80 rated player and a 60 and a team of 80's would destroy a team of 60's. I hope that's what we see in this game.

              Comment

              • MasonOS95
                Rookie
                • Jan 2012
                • 526

                #67
                Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

                Originally posted by Trojan Man
                Is it certain that this is a 100% legitimate report?

                I have a hard time believing that rating NFL starters in the 50s is going to fly with the bulk of Madden's market, including NFL players. I'm fine with a much wider ratings spread, but I'll believe this report when I see it (and if/after they've held their ground in the face of clamoring fans and players).

                I don't mean to be cynical, but Madden drastically departing from their established ratings system is so hard for me to imagine that my first instinct is to think this report is fake or off-base in some way.

                Please correct me if I'm wrong--I would love to be!
                Check out TheFranchiseGuy's rosters he did a similar re-rating
                PSN: The_Mayor95

                Comment

                • canes21
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 22931

                  #68
                  Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

                  Maybe I am just that out of the loop, but I don't think Madden is going to lose any casual fans because more players are rated in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. I don't follow the logic there.
                  “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


                  ― Plato

                  Comment

                  • Darth Aegis
                    Lord of Suffering
                    • Jul 2012
                    • 4169

                    #69
                    Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

                    Originally posted by canes21
                    Maybe I am just that out of the loop, but I don't think Madden is going to lose any casual fans because more players are rated in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. I don't follow the logic there.
                    I don't follow that logic either. The Tom Brady's of the world are still going to be the best in the game and that's all that probably matters to casuals.
                    Last edited by Darth Aegis; 05-10-2019, 11:23 PM.
                    OS needs a Thumbs DOWN button

                    Playing:

                    Comment

                    • Kid OS
                      Pro
                      • Sep 2016
                      • 829

                      #70
                      Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

                      Originally posted by canes21
                      Maybe I am just that out of the loop, but I don't think Madden is going to lose any casual fans because more players are rated in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. I don't follow the logic there.
                      Gotta think about rookies and young players as well tho. There is a possibility that players who were good last year and ended Madden 19 with, let's say a 86 OVR, could come into Madden 20 as a 79 OVR. Someone is gonna say, "What gives?! This guy put up [insert every stat imaginable] and led the league in [some overly advanced analytic]! He needs a ratings boost ASAP! yeet 💯😤👌".

                      ^^^ That situation right there is 100% going to happen, so just imagine how people may react when someone in the 90's drops into the 80's.
                      "𝑯𝒆𝒍𝒍 𝒇𝒊𝒓𝒆 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒃𝒓𝒊𝒎𝒔𝒕𝒐𝒎𝒆 𝒄𝒐𝒍𝒐𝒓𝒊𝒛𝒆𝒅, 𝒄𝒊𝒓𝒄𝒂 2019."

                      Comment

                      • canes21
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 22931

                        #71
                        Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

                        I'm sure people will do that, but Madden losing players over it? I don't see that happening. I think a lot of people here stereotype the casual sports gamer as someone who is dumb or someone who wants every single play to be a highlight play. The quote from Rex or Clint where they said their nephew loves lobbing it up to Gronk and using aggressive catch constantly is an example of why the game is tailored the way it is is a poor excuse to me. That little kid will play Madden regardless and will likely learn what is successful if the game was made differently. He lobs it up because it works not because that is the only reason he wants to succeed.
                        “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


                        ― Plato

                        Comment

                        • Big Bankhead
                          Rookie
                          • Jun 2012
                          • 482

                          #72
                          Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

                          After reading this and the other info about x-factor and superstar badges, I’m actually excited to see it in action. I’m 100% on board for a giant ratings spread because it will definitely differentiate the elite from the bubble players. I hope that they don’t nerf things by mid season. I’m all for a realistic challenge when it comes to gameplay and team building. EA I’m actually impressed with the news I’ve read so far.
                          "If you look good, you feel good. If you feel good, you play good. If you play good, they pay good." - Deion Sanders #21

                          Ravens!
                          Lakers!
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                          PSN: Spartan387
                          XBGT: KobraTheKing

                          Comment

                          • jsteele14
                            Rookie
                            • Jun 2015
                            • 410

                            #73
                            Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

                            Originally posted by Big Bankhead
                            After reading this and the other info about x-factor and superstar badges, I’m actually excited to see it in action. I’m 100% on board for a giant ratings spread because it will definitely differentiate the elite from the bubble players. I hope that they don’t nerf things by mid season. I’m all for a realistic challenge when it comes to gameplay and team building. EA I’m actually impressed with the news I’ve read so far.
                            My concern is that the ratings spread being implemented at the same time as this x factor concept will over power the good player. The ratings spread itself will significantly increase the player difference and then throw on top the factors. I am surprised they are tackling both in the same year and expect balance issues at least at release.

                            I am all for the x factors but i question the superstar abilities. Those seem like things that can be accounted for in the ratings system. I would rather the super star badges just highlight what the player is particularly good at as reflected in their ratings rather than it increase their ability even beyond their ratings.

                            If the skill is there all the time than it is just a rating. The concept of the temporary skills of x factors is a good way to distinguish the true elite IMO.

                            Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

                            Comment

                            • khaliib
                              MVP
                              • Jan 2005
                              • 2884

                              #74
                              Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

                              Originally posted by jsteele14
                              My concern is that the ratings spread being implemented at the same time as this x factor concept will over power the good player. The ratings spread itself will significantly increase the player difference and then throw on top the factors. I am surprised they are tackling both in the same year and expect balance issues at least at release.

                              I am all for the x factors but i question the superstar abilities. Those seem like things that can be accounted for in the ratings system. I would rather the super star badges just highlight what the player is particularly good at as reflected in their ratings rather than it increase their ability even beyond their ratings.

                              If the skill is there all the time than it is just a rating. The concept of the temporary skills of x factors is a good way to distinguish the true elite IMO.

                              Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
                              You guys keep relating the X-Factor and Superstar mechanisms to some kind of “Ratings Boost” even though it was explicitly said and written, their not.

                              These are basically animations/win-chance outcome “Branch Offs”.

                              Now they can take that rating that’s used in multiple functions of a single play (ie STR rating) and separately assign those functions within an X-Factor or Superstar Ability.

                              This multi-functionality of ratings was the driving force behind preventing Player Differentiation from being seen during gameplay.

                              This is why you wouldn’t see Miller/Mack dominating what we perceived to be weaker blockers, because players sharing the same rating even though, the functionality for the position needed to be different.

                              Now they can “Branch Off” the STR rating and give each “Position (Superstar)” and even “Player (X-Factor)” their own functionality of that rating.

                              “Branch Offs” allow them freedom to produce Player Differentiation, where as, the current model greatly limited the ability.

                              Comment

                              • The Black Redneck
                                Rookie
                                • Apr 2019
                                • 140

                                #75
                                Re: Madden 20 Player Ratings Will Be Much Different Than Before by StickSkillz

                                Originally posted by canes21
                                I'm sure people will do that, but Madden losing players over it? I don't see that happening. I think a lot of people here stereotype the casual sports gamer as someone who is dumb or someone who wants every single play to be a highlight play. The quote from Rex or Clint where they said their nephew loves lobbing it up to Gronk and using aggressive catch constantly is an example of why the game is tailored the way it is is a poor excuse to me. That little kid will play Madden regardless and will likely learn what is successful if the game was made differently. He lobs it up because it works not because that is the only reason he wants to succeed.
                                I don’t think anyone is stereotyping the causal players as dumb they are what the title says causal fans. While they might understand the strategy and game planning that goes into making Gronk does what he does, they don’t want to play out that part. They want to pick their favorite teams with their favorite players and have fun winning games and Super Bowls, and having the stars do what they do.

                                Sim guys play differently of course and enjoy the preparation and strategy. I think the devs are trying to give each type of player things they want. But of course you can’t please everyone.
                                Always do sober what you said you would do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut

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