Truzz Ability - goodbye

[NinersFan49]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

Sorry for the length, but honestly, this rant has been building for awhile.



Respectfully, that's not a strawman...it's not an argument he fallaciously put in anybody's mouth to make arguing against their position easier. In this case, you actually did hyperbolically misrepresent other people's positions. I can understand if, from your perspective, it feels like an unfair personal characterization to assume you did so deliberately...but it's not a strawman.

Regardless, I'm not terribly invested in picking a fight over the strict definition of a strawman...but what I said and what you said are still very different, and in a meaningful way.

Let's do something rare around here: let's assume we're all here in good faith, and are all invested in the game being more or better than what it is. Let's also assume that since we're all here on OS instead of someplace like MUThead, we all have at least some level of interest in a realistic gameplay experience.

There are a number of us who are just as interested in using video game elements and concessions to enhance gameplay as we are in a strictly realistic experience. There are many possible reasons we feel this way...although the two least likely are that we're ADHD "bright lights" children or not very knowledgeable about football.

For us, there's a point on that spectrum I talked about where the game is "real enough"...where further realism enhancements don't add as much to our experience as some video game concessions might. That doesn't mean we don't care about realism...it means that we're not always willing to give up a gameplay element that's interesting to us simply to move from 80 to 82 on that realism scale.

But when that gets characterized as "not wanting realism", it forces us to claw our way into every single conversation....we have to re-establish or "prove" that we do care about realism before we can talk about whatever it is we're talking about. It also undermines the validity whatever element we may actually want to see kept....it preemptively rejects the notion that any rational person would ever advocate for that element.

It's pretty transparent, and frankly, it's pretty underhanded. It also has the net effect of undermining everybody's position....even your own.

This thread is a great example. An endless campaign against every single unrealistic element...no matter the alternative...is embraced by some. It's weird to others that a change made in the name of more realism wouldn't automatically be seen as an unquestionable positive; they literally can't grasp that anyone would question it. At nearly every turn, the discussion is oversimplified to say "every change that enhances realism is a net positive", and that perspective is presented as being self-evident.

And it's fine that "more realism at all costs" as a perspective has a healthy representation....a lot of people do feel that way. But it's not self-evident..."more realism, sure...but let's talk about the cost" is not only equally valid, it's really not all that far off. It's actually a downright reasonable thing to think. And it's incredibly frustrating to constantly have that perspective misrepresented.

Basically...we live here too. We pay as much for the game as you do, and we're going to agree with you on probably 80% of the things we'd like to see changed anyway. How does misrepresenting our position so severely help anybody outside of maybe scoring a few internet points for a few minutes?

He fallaciously put me in a group to put their beliefs in my mouth. You’re right though, he was really not making an argument, more like a statement. It’s false because I agree with you about the trade offs involved with the level of realism desirable in a video game. It’s true I was being mostly sarcastic in the second part of my comment re desirability (and was duly busted) I could waste a bunch of time making a semantic argument that it was consistent with what had been mentioned earlier in the thread, because technically there was a kernel of truth to it.

I wasn’t the only one to sense the inference that too much realism could possibly be undesirable. I thought that was starting to go too far in order to deflect criticism of Madden.

I assert that I’m operating in good faith (and won’t call you underhanded) and want the game to be as realistic as practically possible. If that’s rare around here that’s unfortunate. And I should have said “too much realism” in my comment, I certainly believe everyone in the thread wants the game to be as realistic as possible for sim players. That would eliminate a lot of these kind of discussions.

Why have you engaged in this endless campaign? If you’re frustrated by having to dig in against this kind of comment you could have just let it pass and it would have been forgotten a few lines later. But you’ve chosen to extend it and use a lot of time and text to refute it. People are always going to criticize (and defend) madden, and that’s good, as long as it doesn’t get too nasty.

I’ve been coming on this forum for around a decade. The forum seems heavily slanted against or indifferent to criticisms of madden. Of course, that’s my impression you may feel 180 degree the opposite. At any rate, I apologize to anyone who felt I falsely smeared them with my crudely elaborated comment

[tg88forHOF]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

I'm not trapped by my perspective at all, I'm trapped by having no other options for the NFL video game that I want.

Yes...and so is everybody else. That leaves us all pulling in our own directions for what we want to see in this one game we all have available.

Which is why the fact that you find it weird that other people have perspectives on certain features that are different than yours is, well...weird.

[tg88forHOF]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

Why have you engaged in this endless campaign? If you’re frustrated by having to dig in against this kind of comment you could have just let it pass and it would have been forgotten a few lines later. But you’ve chosen to extend it and use a lot of time and text to refute it. People are always going to criticize (and defend) madden, and that’s good, as long as it doesn’t get too nasty.

It's cool...they were my keystrokes to spend, and I had the time. I consider simplified misrepresentations of people's positions to be worth spending some time to refute, that's all.

To me, simply not misrepresenting things in the first place feels like a superior solution to ignoring the misrepresentation...especially when the whole discussion here is about how we collectively would like to see the game improved. Misrepresentation feels like it gets in the way of that goal, you know?

[NinersFan49]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

It's cool...they were my keystrokes to spend, and I had the time. I consider simplified misrepresentations of people's positions to be worth spending some time to refute, that's all.

To me, simply not misrepresenting things in the first place feels like a superior solution to ignoring the misrepresentation...especially when the whole discussion here is about how we collectively would like to see the game improved. Misrepresentation feels like it gets in the way of that goal, you know?

I’m glad these accounts are anonymous, otherwise you’d probably be trying to start a class action suit for defamation

I apologized and frankly, I don’t think my comment would cause more than a moments irritation to anyone else who thought it was directed at them, and I didn’t direct it at anyone specifically. If you can’t let it go that’s your problem.

[tg88forHOF]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

I’m glad these accounts are anonymous, otherwise you’d probably be trying to start a class action suit for defamation

I apologized and frankly, I don’t think my comment would cause more than a moments irritation to anyone else who thought it was directed at them, and I didn’t direct it at anyone specifically. If you can’t let it go that’s your problem.

...and yet, you just can't resist a final personal comment or two on your way out the door. It sounds like there's more of a general inability to let things go

[NinersFan49]

Re: Truzz Ability - goodbye

...and yet, you just can't resist a final personal comment or two on your way out the door. It sounds like there's more of a general inability to let things go

I wasn't on my way out the door because I knew that you would do the same. But, as a sign of good faith I won't include an emoji.